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Poll: Sabonis for Brown

Moderators: pacers33granger, boomershadow, Jake0890, pacerfan, Grang33r

Who wins the Trade?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:58 am

Pacers Win
3
10%
Boston Win
22
73%
Both
5
17%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#61 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:04 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Warren, McDermott, Sabonis is 5.5 million short of matching for Hayward - maybe that’s the start of a three-team deal..?


Good way to get Tatum to Indy, too, since you’d be paying us to take on Hayward :wink:


:nonono: If Hayward is healthy, that’s not enough value back from Indiana, and Boston would have to be able to find great return for Warren and McDermott to make it a good trade. But yeah, as we’ve discussed, if Hayward isn’t all the way back, it’s a very different market for him.



If Hayward is all the way healthy, he’s better than Tatum and you’d never trade him. Especially not for Dom and filler. He’s not. And he likely won’t ever be. The question is can he work his way back to be a slightly plus player on a nightly basis rather than just once a week.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#62 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:10 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:I don’t think there’s a deal, honestly - it seems like there should be a good match, but it’s very tough to balance the scales. Boston probably has more leverage because they’ve got Rob Williams in the pipeline, and Kanter in the short term. Indiana’s added Bitadze and they have to commit good money to Dom while betting he and Turner can mesh- even as either one as a foundation piece would mean different things for team-building.

I’d bet Sabonis is dealt somewhere other than Boston,

I could also see something with a healthy Hayward for Myles - I know that will make you all scream bloody murder, but if Sabonis is so good, you get some real synergy pairing him with Hayward - two very smart players, great passing, great off-ball play. Jaylen for Sabonis would take you in the opposite direction - more defense, speed, athleticism.



You know why we’d scream bloody murder.... Because it’s kind of similar in talent/value difference in suggesting a TJ Warren for Jayson Tatum swap.

As for Boston, Kanter is a one year 20-25 minute a night guy. RWilliams has to prove he can work night in and out to be an nba player before he can really be projected as the future.

Jaylen for Dom has been suggested for years. It made sense last year, but not so much now, as it’d require Jaylen or Jeremy Lamb to be our starting 4 once Oladipo returns.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#63 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:53 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:I don’t think there’s a deal, honestly - it seems like there should be a good match, but it’s very tough to balance the scales. Boston probably has more leverage because they’ve got Rob Williams in the pipeline, and Kanter in the short term. Indiana’s added Bitadze and they have to commit good money to Dom while betting he and Turner can mesh- even as either one as a foundation piece would mean different things for team-building.

I’d bet Sabonis is dealt somewhere other than Boston,

I could also see something with a healthy Hayward for Myles - I know that will make you all scream bloody murder, but if Sabonis is so good, you get some real synergy pairing him with Hayward - two very smart players, great passing, great off-ball play. Jaylen for Sabonis would take you in the opposite direction - more defense, speed, athleticism.



You know why we’d scream bloody murder.... Because it’s kind of similar in talent/value difference in suggesting a TJ Warren for Jayson Tatum swap.

As for Boston, Kanter is a one year 20-25 minute a night guy. RWilliams has to prove he can work night in and out to be an nba player before he can really be projected as the future.

Jaylen for Dom has been suggested for years. It made sense last year, but not so much now, as it’d require Jaylen or Jeremy Lamb to be our starting 4 once Oladipo returns.


If you were going to trade Sabonis or Turner, who would you target elsewhere around the league, if Jaylen Brown isn’t good enough and Gordon Hayward isn’t healthy enough?
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#64 » by LloydFree » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:18 pm

Indy wins a Sabonis for Brown trade, big-time. Undersized, no defense Centers don't have that kind of value.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#65 » by winter_mute_13 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:07 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:If you were going to trade Sabonis or Turner, who would you target elsewhere around the league, if Jaylen Brown isn’t good enough and Gordon Hayward isn’t healthy enough?


The obvious answer is that the Pacers aren't intending to trade either, but this message seems difficult to get through to certain people who think there's a bargain to be had.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#66 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:13 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:I don’t think there’s a deal, honestly - it seems like there should be a good match, but it’s very tough to balance the scales. Boston probably has more leverage because they’ve got Rob Williams in the pipeline, and Kanter in the short term. Indiana’s added Bitadze and they have to commit good money to Dom while betting he and Turner can mesh- even as either one as a foundation piece would mean different things for team-building.

I’d bet Sabonis is dealt somewhere other than Boston,

I could also see something with a healthy Hayward for Myles - I know that will make you all scream bloody murder, but if Sabonis is so good, you get some real synergy pairing him with Hayward - two very smart players, great passing, great off-ball play. Jaylen for Sabonis would take you in the opposite direction - more defense, speed, athleticism.



You know why we’d scream bloody murder.... Because it’s kind of similar in talent/value difference in suggesting a TJ Warren for Jayson Tatum swap.

As for Boston, Kanter is a one year 20-25 minute a night guy. RWilliams has to prove he can work night in and out to be an nba player before he can really be projected as the future.

Jaylen for Dom has been suggested for years. It made sense last year, but not so much now, as it’d require Jaylen or Jeremy Lamb to be our starting 4 once Oladipo returns.


If you were going to trade Sabonis or Turner, who would you target elsewhere around the league, if Jaylen Brown isn’t good enough and Gordon Hayward isn’t healthy enough?


Sigh. Did we say that Jaylen Brown isn’t “good enough”? No. But, you tell us what to do if the lineup looks like this:
Brogdon/Holiday/McConnell/Sumner
Oladipo/Lamb/Holiday
Brown/Warren/McDermott/Alize/Sampson
Leaf
Myles/Goga

What’s the course of action? Sure, deal Warren, Dougie, etc, any of the ancillary parts, but what does that get you in return? A waste of a PF or ancillary parts. A twisted ankle to Myles and Leaf and Goga are playing up to 48 minutes each. That might be part of the issue we have with the overall concept.

As for Hayward? No. He’s not good enough to deal Sabonis. He’s “healthy” but his game hasn’t returned as he’s like, especially since it was predicated on at least plus athleticism.

As for what we’d look for? Well, that’s tough. We’re likely to spend at least a solid year on Dom/Myles, so maybe ask back in a year or two? At that point, we’d also see what Brogdon, Lamb, Aaron Holiday, Warren, etc, offer us from 1-3 as a long term solution. So, at that point, we’d know more what we have, and what we’re looking for. At that point, in theory, maybe Jaylen makes some sense. Or maybe he definitely won’t make sense. Either way, if either Myles or Dom are dealt now, we need someone to play 32+ SOLID minutes at the big spots with the one not dealt. For that reason alone an Aaron Gordon makes more sense right now than a Jaylen Brown would.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#67 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:14 am

LloydFree wrote:Indy wins a Sabonis for Brown trade, big-time. Undersized, no defense Centers don't have that kind of value.


6’11” and 240 lbs is undersized for center? What about starting PF, which Dom is?
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#68 » by LloydFree » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:02 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Indy wins a Sabonis for Brown trade, big-time. Undersized, no defense Centers don't have that kind of value.


6’11” and 240 lbs is undersized for center? What about starting PF, which Dom is?

If he suddenly becomes a high volume, 3 point shooting, stretch 4, then the value gets closer. But even then a stretch 4 that doesn't protect the basket, has less value than a good 2-way wing with ball skills.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#69 » by pacers33granger » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:22 pm

Jokic is similar size and a "no defense" center who doesn't protect the basket and he has tremendous value. You can't paint players that simply. Domas is no Jokic, but he's a far cry from a journeyman bench center like Kanter. He would have been 6MOY if it weren't for Lou Williams.

We'd all love it if he hit threes at a high volume and got blocks, but he'd be a superstar at that point.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#70 » by jbk1234 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:05 pm

It would seem premature for the Pacers to consider this trade now. If it becomes clear by midseason that Sabonis and Turner won't work together, then it's something to consider.

Unless Brown regresses further, both of these guys will be on contracts that pay at least $20M per a year from now and their trade value will take a hit.

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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#71 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:48 am

Jamaaliver wrote:From an outsiders perspective, adding Jaylen Brown to your roster could be a great addition.

Brogdon
Oladipo
Jaylen Brown
Myles Turner


is a terrific rotation that can switch and guard and every position. Plus, JB has been dynamite in the post-season when given a clear role:

Read on Twitter



Why the hell are people still talking about this? Who is supposed to play PF if Sabonis is not there? Warren? Not as a starter. And how many SF's does a team need? Lamb, Warren, Doug, and Justin Holiday? Add brown to that because he's not taking minutes from Victor at SG when Vic comes back and then even Brogdon can play SG/SF. :nod:
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#72 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:49 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:What separates Sabonis from Enes Kanter? Great passing, slightly better defense.

I like Sabonis, but does anyone think he can turn himself into a great positional defender, shooter, or low post scorer? He grades out very well in some categories, but the rest are unknowns.



Where is the minus one button when you need it. :lol:
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#73 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:52 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Warren, McDermott, Sabonis is 5.5 million short of matching for Hayward - maybe that’s the start of a three-team deal..?


So how many number 1 picks are you sending? The Memphis pick, Bucks pick and 2 Celtics picks along with Brown, and I might think about it.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#74 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:55 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:What separates Sabonis from Enes Kanter? Great passing, slightly better defense.

I like Sabonis, but does anyone think he can turn himself into a great positional defender, shooter, or low post scorer? He grades out very well in some categories, but the rest are unknowns.


Great passing. Much better defense since Kanter is non existent there. He’s a good positional defender at the 5 in terms of being able to use his body. Clean up his hand work to avoid the ticky fouls, and he’s a plus there. He’s a tremendous low post scorer though, and even with just his left hand, as he’s poor to his right hand, but that offers room for growth. Also, a very good jump shooter. He shot 74% at the rim and 49% from 3’-10’. Also, over 40% behind 16’ and 53% from 3 (in a tiny sample size).

Maybe you’re not familiar with Dom, though? Most of your issues were actually strengths of Dom.


He’s not likely to ever be a rim protector, though, with short arms - he would have to develop his positional defense to an elite degree. His low post scoring is not bad (neither is Kanter’s- Enes could be an easy 20-10 guy a la David Lee with minutes) - and yeah, there’s hope for his shooting, but if we’re going to project remaining upside, Jaylen Brown comes out as Dipo tier or even better. Sabonis would be, like, a poor man’s Jokic.



Sabonis doesn't have to be a rim protector! The Pacers have this guy named Turner you may have heard of him? He led the NBA in Blocked shots last year!

Face it we are not interested in trading Sabonis for Brown so go troll some other teams board.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#75 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:04 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Warren, McDermott, Sabonis is 5.5 million short of matching for Hayward - maybe that’s the start of a three-team deal..?


Good way to get Tatum to Indy, too, since you’d be paying us to take on Hayward :wink:


:nonono: If Hayward is healthy, that’s not enough value back from Indiana, and Boston would have to be able to find great return for Warren and McDermott to make it a good trade. But yeah, as we’ve discussed, if Hayward isn’t all the way back, it’s a very different market for him.




pacers33granger wrote:We aren't giving up value to take on Boston's trash. Hayward wasn't worth that money when he was healthy and there's zero evidence he will ever be the same player again.


I love Hayward and wish him the best, but there is noway I'm taking that massive contract unless I'm getting paid to do it. I'd want something in the area of Memphis pick and Boston 2023 to take him right now and that is if I'm sending back nearly worthless salary which we don't have or space we don't have that either.

So Hayward + Memphis #1, Boston 2023 and ?? for McDermott and Warren and we don't have any junk salary to throw in to make it work so It's not worth talking about.

Seriously if Boston wants to move Hayward they should talk to OKC. A deal based around GH and picks for Adams and Roberson would help them out with their big man issues.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#76 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:I don’t think there’s a deal, honestly - it seems like there should be a good match, but it’s very tough to balance the scales. Boston probably has more leverage because they’ve got Rob Williams in the pipeline, and Kanter in the short term. Indiana’s added Bitadze and they have to commit good money to Dom while betting he and Turner can mesh- even as either one as a foundation piece would mean different things for team-building.

I’d bet Sabonis is dealt somewhere other than Boston,

I could also see something with a healthy Hayward for Myles - I know that will make you all scream bloody murder, but if Sabonis is so good, you get some real synergy pairing him with Hayward - two very smart players, great passing, great off-ball play. Jaylen for Sabonis would take you in the opposite direction - more defense, speed, athleticism.





Kanter has made no impact anywhere he's been in his career! Why do you think he was available at the end of FA? Robert Williams III might turn into a good player if he gets the playing time, so use him.

How is it a good match? It takes two teams to make a deal and the deal has to make sense for both teams at some level. I've said this 2000 times, "IF Indiana trades Domantas Sabonis who is going to play PF?" TJ Leaf? He's a marginal 12-15th man. Warren is not a starter at PF and has missed games in the past! Who else is there? No body that who. Maybe if Indiana had taken John Collins in 2017 instead of TJ Leaf trading Sabonis might be something we could consider.

The part about Turner is inane and specious at best. The only way Turner goes to boston is for Tatum. I'm not even sure that one for one would be fair to the Pacers. Turner's combo of skills is rare and very hard to find.

Turner and Sabonis are 23 years old. They have not really been played at the same time, only 3 min a game or there about thus far. This season they are going to have to play together. I expect Saboins to be given an extension similar to the contract that Turner was given. That means he's here for a year or more.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#77 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:39 am

LloydFree wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Indy wins a Sabonis for Brown trade, big-time. Undersized, no defense Centers don't have that kind of value.


6’11” and 240 lbs is undersized for center? What about starting PF, which Dom is?

If he suddenly becomes a high volume, 3 point shooting, stretch 4, then the value gets closer. But even then a stretch 4 that doesn't protect the basket, has less value than a good 2-way wing with ball skills.



Why does Sabonis have to become a high volume 3 point shooter? There is a guy named Myles Turner who shot 38.8% from 3pt range playing center. Oh and that Turner guy lead the NBA in blocked shots.

Sabonis and Turner are not going to be traded in the 2019-20 season.

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