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Poll: Sabonis for Brown

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Who wins the Trade?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:58 am

Pacers Win
3
10%
Boston Win
22
73%
Both
5
17%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#81 » by Pacersike » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:47 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:I'll say this again if Dom is traded for the over rated SG Brown, who's the starting pf?

Jakarrrrrrr.

I'll say this again, he is the only player on our roster with a smallball 4/Thad Young profile.

Warren ain't big enough, Leaf not quick enough and Alize overall not good enough.

And no, Thad Young was already one of the leftovers that few teams were after, because of his below average shooting.
That is why he is now on one of the worst teams in the league.

If someone thinks Warren is big enough, look up his rebounding numbers then and imagine him next to Turner.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#82 » by Pacersike » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:25 am

This person thinks that a trade is very unlikely:

- at the beginning of the season, teams have to believe that they will have a positive season with positive contributions from players
they have to believe in their players and it will show in their trade demands

- who is ever going to believe KP again when he trades a player of whom he said he can start together with Turner before it actually happens while praising his organisation as an organisation that is different from other organisations, who don't care enough about their players and trade them as soon as it benefits them?

I can still trade Turner or Sabonis, but KP cornered himself by flowering up a harsh reality. Getting traded always hurts for someone who cares. In stead of trying to soften the blow and informing them at the 5 yard line, players have to be encouraged to turn the trade into something positive. Oladipo did, Warren tries to but should be thankful to the Suns for giving him the motivation to shine brighter than in Phoenix. When you inform them, but a trade doesn't happen, the trust is also wounded. Don't focus on the negative side, focus on the positive side. A trade creates many other opportunities. If you weren't good enough for some team, you can work harder and/or be good enough for another team.

If Sabonis gets traded, so be it. If Turner gets traded, so be it. Be a man and in stead of whining about it, accept it wasn't ment to be and focus on all the positives it brings with it.

ps I'm also speaking to myself here, don't read it if it bothers you.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#83 » by reflex35 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:34 am

Pacersike wrote:This person thinks that a trade is very unlikely:

- at the beginning of the season, teams have to believe that they will have a positive season with positive contributions from players
they have to believe in their players and it will show in their trade demands

- who is ever going to believe KP again when he trades a player of whom he said he can start together with Turner before it actually happens while praising his organisation as an organisation that is different from other organisations, who don't care enough about their players and trade them as soon as it benefits them?

I can still trade Turner or Sabonis, but KP cornered himself by flowering up a harsh reality. Getting traded always hurts for someone who cares. In stead of trying to soften the blow and informing them at the 5 yard line, players have to be encouraged to turn the trade into something positive. Oladipo did, Warren tries to but should be thankful to the Suns for giving him the motivation to shine brighter than in Phoenix. When you inform them, but a trade doesn't happen, the trust is also wounded. Don't focus on the negative side, focus on the positive side. A trade creates many other opportunities. If you weren't good enough for some team, you can work harder and/or be good enough for another team.

If Sabonis gets traded, so be it. If Turner gets traded, so be it. Be a man and in stead of whining about it, accept it wasn't ment to be and focus on all the positives it brings with it.

ps I'm also speaking to myself here, don't read it if it bothers you.


I think this is a rational point of view.
The team has to look after it's own interest to get better as players have the right to do it for themselves as well.

I always have doubts that Sabonis and Turner combo can work. It really does not matter who is better or not - Pacers I think made a decision to go with Myles and that's ok.
At the same time Domas has to look after his own interest and not to let anyone to downball.
He has to the right to get a chance of longterm good financial deal and at the same time be sure about his role and playtime.

If Pacers made a decision they should just trade Domas and get a great return while they can and Domas at the same time can get a chance to prove in the new team that he is worth a better role and money than Pacers are willing to give him.
Just do it because it's better for both sides if they can't find the agreement.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#84 » by Pacersike » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:50 am

reflex35 wrote:
I think this is a rational point of view.
The team has to look after it's own interest to get better as players have the right to do it for themselves as well.

I always have doubts that Sabonis and Turner combo can work. It really does not matter who is better or not - Pacers I think made a decision to go with Myles and that's ok.
At the same time Domas has to look after his own interest and not to let anyone to downball.
He has to the right to get a chance of longterm good financial deal and at the same time be sure about his role and playtime.

If Pacers made a decision they should just trade Domas and get a great return while they can and Domas at the same time can get a chance to prove in the new team that he is worth a better role and money than Pacers are willing to give him.
Just do it because it's better for both sides if they can't find the agreement.

I'm usually the first to jump to the trade board when news like this comes out, but not now.

The leader, KP, has said they can play together, now let us find out if they can.

They had an opportunity earlier to find out and start Sabonis in place of Young, they didn't take that opportunity, but our players deserve that opportunity.

Just because there are some (salary) differences now, doesn't mean we suddenly have to doubt our plan, our plan to start and keep them together.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#85 » by Wizop » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:28 pm

reflex35 wrote:If Pacers made a decision they should just trade Domas and get a great return while they can and Domas at the same time can get a chance to prove in the new team that he is worth a better role and money than Pacers are willing to give him.
Just do it because it's better for both sides if they can't find the agreement.


I don't think that decision has been made. I believe both sides want an extension but so far haven't been able to agree on a price.

wouldn't any team interested in trading for him be asking his agent about the cost of an extension? that could help set his value for us.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#86 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:42 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:I'll say this again if Dom is traded for the over rated SG Brown, who's the starting pf?


Probably Brown? Either he or TJ Warren. Neither's a great option.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#87 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:45 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Suddenly, this Sabonis for Brown trade seems even more fitting and possible...

Read on Twitter


Second, there are real questions about how Sabonis and Pacers’ center Myles Turner can play together. If they can’t, then the question becomes how much do the Pacers want to pay Sabonis to be a backup five (because Turner is the better player and a guy they can build their defense around).

Sabonis is a skilled offensive big man who is versatile. That makes him a fantastic pick-and-roll or dribble hand-off guy who can help create space for the ball handler to find a lane, then he rolls into open space. He’s strong around the basket and plays a crafty, high IQ game. He can help a lot of teams. However, two things limit Sabonis: He is not good defensively and he does not space the floor (76.4 percent of his shots came within 10 feet of the basket last season, and he doesn’t make many beyond that range).


Probably means that Brown would have to be either starting at the SF, with Warren at PF, or Brown starts at the PF spot with Warren at the SF. Or, Brown starts at SF, Warren only plays SF off the bench, McDermott and Justin Holiday disappear, and TJ Leaf and Jakarr Sampson play the 48 minutes a night at the PF spot. As you can see, none of these are really even ok options.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#88 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:37 pm

Pacersike wrote:This person thinks that a trade is very unlikely:

- at the beginning of the season, teams have to believe that they will have a positive season with positive contributions from players
they have to believe in their players and it will show in their trade demands

- who is ever going to believe KP again when he trades a player of whom he said he can start together with Turner before it actually happens while praising his organisation as an organisation that is different from other organisations, who don't care enough about their players and trade them as soon as it benefits them?

I can still trade Turner or Sabonis, but KP cornered himself by flowering up a harsh reality. Getting traded always hurts for someone who cares. In stead of trying to soften the blow and informing them at the 5 yard line, players have to be encouraged to turn the trade into something positive. Oladipo did, Warren tries to but should be thankful to the Suns for giving him the motivation to shine brighter than in Phoenix. When you inform them, but a trade doesn't happen, the trust is also wounded. Don't focus on the negative side, focus on the positive side. A trade creates many other opportunities. If you weren't good enough for some team, you can work harder and/or be good enough for another team.

If Sabonis gets traded, so be it. If Turner gets traded, so be it. Be a man and in stead of whining about it, accept it wasn't ment to be and focus on all the positives it brings with it.

ps I'm also speaking to myself here, don't read it if it bothers you.



I'd like to keep both of them and give them a chance to play together. If they are having a problem playing together its the Coach's fault for figuring out how to get the best out his best players.

If we would trade Turner he could being a better defensive player and shooter but there is no doubt that we'd get a bigger return.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#89 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:40 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:I'll say this again if Dom is traded for the over rated SG Brown, who's the starting pf?


Probably Brown? Either he or TJ Warren. Neither's a great option.



Brown who is barely 6'7'' playing PF? Worst rebounding team in the NBA! :lol:
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#90 » by pacers33granger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:47 pm

Read on Twitter


So either KP lowballed him or he thinks he's worth more than a $20 mil starting salary. Neither is good.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#91 » by pacers33granger » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:57 pm

Looks like his agent reps mostly Euro players. No clue how he actually is as an agent, but from the NBA clients he has I'm skeptical he's a "good" agent.

He pretty clearly bungled the Bjelica situation last year. And he made a big stink about Capela's post-rookie deal. He also reps Bojan, so who knows if he's salty we didn't offer a 4th year (though he shouldn't be).
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#92 » by Pacersike » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:59 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Read on Twitter


So either KP lowballed him or he thinks he's worth more than a $20 mil starting salary. Neither is good.

If they offered him $20 mil, his cold reaction is misplaced. That's more than Turner is getting.

His reaction screams disappointment, disappointment for being valued too low. If they had offered him $20 mil and Domas wanted more, his reaction would probably focus on the positive side, that he thinks he can show enough improvement this season to get more money. Now he stresses the Pacers and their "exact" opinion . Just a guess, but I'd say a lower number was offered than Turners.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#93 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:52 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Suddenly, this Sabonis for Brown trade seems even more fitting and possible...


Probably means that Brown would have to be either starting at the SF, with Warren at PF, or Brown starts at the PF spot with Warren at the SF. Or, Brown starts at SF, Warren only plays SF off the bench, McDermott and Justin Holiday disappear, and TJ Leaf and Jakarr Sampson play the 48 minutes a night at the PF spot. As you can see, none of these are really even ok options.



Consider me an interested, outside observer on pacers issues. I've long respected the franchise and enjoy most of the teams trotted out over the past 20 years.


Question: Why would TJ Warren, TJ Leaf or Jak Sampson even be a part of the calculus when it comes to the long term roster building of this squad?

A perimeter rotation based around M Brogdon/V Oladipo/J Brown...with Myles Turner at the 4 or 5 spot is really intriguing for you guys. Strong defense and efficient offense...
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#94 » by pacers33granger » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:08 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Suddenly, this Sabonis for Brown trade seems even more fitting and possible...


Probably means that Brown would have to be either starting at the SF, with Warren at PF, or Brown starts at the PF spot with Warren at the SF. Or, Brown starts at SF, Warren only plays SF off the bench, McDermott and Justin Holiday disappear, and TJ Leaf and Jakarr Sampson play the 48 minutes a night at the PF spot. As you can see, none of these are really even ok options.



Consider me an interested, outside observer on pacers issues. I've long respected the franchise and enjoy most of the teams trotted out over the past 20 years.


Question: Why would TJ Warren, TJ Leaf or Jak Sampson even be a part of the calculus when it comes to the long term roster building of this squad?

A perimeter rotation based around M Brogdon/V Oladipo/J Brown...with Myles Turner at the 4 or 5 spot is really intriguing for you guys. Strong defense and efficient offense...
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#95 » by pacers33granger » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:08 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Suddenly, this Sabonis for Brown trade seems even more fitting and possible...


Probably means that Brown would have to be either starting at the SF, with Warren at PF, or Brown starts at the PF spot with Warren at the SF. Or, Brown starts at SF, Warren only plays SF off the bench, McDermott and Justin Holiday disappear, and TJ Leaf and Jakarr Sampson play the 48 minutes a night at the PF spot. As you can see, none of these are really even ok options.



Consider me an interested, outside observer on pacers issues. I've long respected the franchise and enjoy most of the teams trotted out over the past 20 years.


Question: Why would TJ Warren, TJ Leaf or Jak Sampson even be a part of the calculus when it comes to the long term roster building of this squad?

A perimeter rotation based around M Brogdon/V Oladipo/J Brown...with Myles Turner at the 4 or 5 spot is really intriguing for you guys. Strong defense and efficient offense...


Mostly just because the team is always in win-now mode and those guys aren't viable options at the 4, possibly even in a bench role.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#96 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:38 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Suddenly, this Sabonis for Brown trade seems even more fitting and possible...


Probably means that Brown would have to be either starting at the SF, with Warren at PF, or Brown starts at the PF spot with Warren at the SF. Or, Brown starts at SF, Warren only plays SF off the bench, McDermott and Justin Holiday disappear, and TJ Leaf and Jakarr Sampson play the 48 minutes a night at the PF spot. As you can see, none of these are really even ok options.



Consider me an interested, outside observer on pacers issues. I've long respected the franchise and enjoy most of the teams trotted out over the past 20 years.


Question: Why would TJ Warren, TJ Leaf or Jak Sampson even be a part of the calculus when it comes to the long term roster building of this squad?

A perimeter rotation based around M Brogdon/V Oladipo/J Brown...with Myles Turner at the 4 or 5 spot is really intriguing for you guys. Strong defense and efficient offense...



As Pacers33Granger said, it’s more that we’re not willing to throw any season, and probably trotting out Warren, Sampson, Leaf, and Alize as our only PF options is likely doing just that. Add in that we just signed Lamb and that Lamb/Warren each have 3 years left on their contract, and the “long term building” with Brown would be hampered with not being able to fill that 4 spot because were stuck paying additional wings long term, or have to use assets to move those guys.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#97 » by 8305 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:31 pm

I suggested this on the trade board.

Pacers trade Sabonis and Warren Pacer receive Gordon
Orlando trades Gordon Orlando receives Warren and Brown
Boston trades Brown Boston receives Sabonis

Orlando guys seem to really like it. Haven't gotten a lot of feedback from Boston or Indiana people. I floated this idea back when we had the cap space to absorb Gordon. Back then the filler of Warren's contract wouldn't have been necessary. Everyone (myself included) liked the idea of allowing the Turner/ Sabonis experiment to play out.

It will be a challenge to get anyone to make a disruptive move of this nature right now.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#98 » by Pacersike » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Aaron Gordon?

Good player, but giving up our starting small forward and a lot of rebounds for a bad 3 point shooter?

I can see why they like it so much, I wouldn't trade Sabonis alone for Gordon.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#99 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Pacersike wrote:Aaron Gordon?

Good player, but giving up our starting small forward and a lot of rebounds for a bad 3 point shooter?

I can see why they like it so much, I wouldn't trade Sabonis alone for Gordon.



I like Gordon a lot. He’s a terrific defender at the 3/4 and he’s well liked by his teammates. He’s also been getting better and better beyond the arc that he’s very respectable now (an ok percentage but at high volume).

I think in 5 or 6 years Aaron Gordon might remind people a lot of Thad Young.
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Re: Poll: Sabonis for Brown 

Post#100 » by Pacersike » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Pacersike wrote:Aaron Gordon?

Good player, but giving up our starting small forward and a lot of rebounds for a bad 3 point shooter?

I can see why they like it so much, I wouldn't trade Sabonis alone for Gordon.



I like Gordon a lot. He’s a terrific defender at the 3/4 and he’s well liked by his teammates. He’s also been getting better and better beyond the arc that he’s very respectable now (an ok percentage but at high volume).

I think in 5 or 6 years Aaron Gordon might remind people a lot of Thad Young.

I wouldn't call 34.9 very respectable. In ESPN stats that's 90th best of 130 qualified players. Unless you mean that every human being should be treated with enough respect, then I agree.

Either way, we need the rebounding and Sabonis already is a better passer per 36, which is also huge with so many combo guards in our rotation. We could use a good player like Gordon, no doubt about that but not for Sabonis.

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