Can we take a minute and discuss TJ Leaf?

[Grang33r]

Leaf so far is considered a bust as a 18th overall pick. And i know the Pacers are not yet done shopping and have a whats essentially a summer tryout start Saturday, but based on what we know so far, where does he fit? Is there any hope for him? Not counting the playoff series, in the last game of the regular season he scored 28 points, had 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. Can he build on it? What are the odds he can still turn into a solid contributor.

What should our expectations be for Leaf for 2019/20? I feel like this is a make it or break it season for him.

[Pacercoltboiler]

I think Leaf fits really well in the big lineup. I have high hopes he gets a lot of minutes backing up Sabonis. If Goga works out, we will have constant shot blocking at center, and much like Sabonis, Leaf can score. He is fairly mobile and has touch around the basket. Even his detractors must admit he is a good rebounder. If we commit to a large lineup, and don't try to use leaf as a stretch, he can be an effective backup. Thad gave him props in his goodbye comments. Sabonis and Leaf can both give us low post offense, and Turner and Goga can both provide spacing. I don't think Leaf has had a chance, and I'm looking forward to seeing him this season.

[basketballwacko2]

Strikes me as a poor man's Ryan Anderson.

[winter_mute_13]

The problem with Leaf last season is that he was a stretch big who couldn't shoot (26% from 3 vs 43% his rookie year). Let's face it, a lot of his potential value comes from being able to stretch the floor.

He bulked up I think which helped his inside game, but somehow it threw his shot off. Hopefully he'll adjust and recover his shot. Seems like if he does, the backup PF spot is his for the taking.

[Pacercoltboiler]

I like his game, but the facial hair MUST go. I always think of Zorro.

[ahartleyvu]

I think this upcoming season is his make or break season.

[boomershadow]

I wish we knew more, but we haven't really seen enough to say with tons of certainty. I think last year would have been a good time to find out more about what we have in Leaf, but it wasn't meant to be.

[Scoot McGroot]

He just turned 22 and is entering his 3rd season. He may not be the stretch 4 we’ve all hoped for, but if we focus too much in that, we may miss that his b-ball IQ has grown tremendously, and that he’s just kind of a bucket getter.

I don’t think he’ll ever be a starter, but he’s looking like he’ll have a nice long career as a 3rd big man a la Josh McRoberts or some such.

https://www.indycornrows.com/platform/amp/2019/3/5/18249048/tj-leaf-is-a-case-study-for-offensive-rebounding

https://www.indycornrows.com/2019/5/10/18537159/t-j-leaf-passable

[Wizop]

My hope is that we adjust the schemes so that Turner and Sabonis can play together, and the same schemes will work for Goga and Leaf. Leaf like Sabonis is more of a 5 than a 4 so some sort of double post offense should maximize both of their skills.

[Moooose]

I am quite sad for Leaf. But it's not a hopeless case. He sure looked different last season and he was playing inside more than during his rookie year. Maybe he's still trying to find where and how he'd fit? He's clearly our best shooting big when he is clicking, and I think Nate could actually run some plays for him if we need to open up the paint some more. I've watched him back in UCLA, the confidence is just not there.

[Scoot McGroot]

I am quite sad for Leaf. But it's not a hopeless case. He sure looked different last season and he was playing inside more than during his rookie year. Maybe he's still trying to find where and how he'd fit? He's clearly our best shooting big when he is clicking, and I think Nate could actually run some plays for him if we need to open up the paint some more. I've watched him back in UCLA, the confidence is just not there.

Leaf talked this offseason about that he’s not a stretch 4. Never was, likely never will be. If we forget that, I think for an 18th pick, he’s developing reasonably well and on a realistic schedule for a young big man. Not as fast as we’d hoped, but, worth his contract and worth keeping around. I definitely would pick up his option on year 4. I just think he’ll continue to get better each of the next two, and he really does seem like a nice counterpiece with Myles and Goga.

[8305]

What I saw last year, he can play. Needs to find his shot and that's not likely to happen until he get at least rotational minutes. Unfortunately, I'm not sure its in the cards for him to get an opportunity here. If Goga really is ready for backup 5 minutes next year and McD's shooting is deemed a necessity next year I see him being the odd man out again.

[Moooose]

I am quite sad for Leaf. But it's not a hopeless case. He sure looked different last season and he was playing inside more than during his rookie year. Maybe he's still trying to find where and how he'd fit? He's clearly our best shooting big when he is clicking, and I think Nate could actually run some plays for him if we need to open up the paint some more. I've watched him back in UCLA, the confidence is just not there.

Leaf talked this offseason about that he’s not a stretch 4. Never was, likely never will be. If we forget that, I think for an 18th pick, he’s developing reasonably well and on a realistic schedule for a young big man. Not as fast as we’d hoped, but, worth his contract and worth keeping around. I definitely would pick up his option on year 4. I just think he’ll continue to get better each of the next two, and he really does seem like a nice counterpiece with Myles and Goga.

Hmm. I didn't knew that we are not prepping him to be a stretch 4, or that he does not intend to be a stretch 4. If that is the case, then he's working on his inside game more last season, it was just odd because this guy can shoot. He's got some serious work to do if the intention is to be somewhat like Domas or Myles who primarily plays inside but can shoot threes. I can see the Pacers picking up his option, provided he improves in bigger minutes.

[Topofthekey]

From what I can tell, he can shoot, he can finish around the basket, and he has a nose for getting the rebounds

Main issue that stood out seems to be he looked unsure what to do or even where to be when he's on the court

Not that I'm trying to punch an expired steed, but I think a lot of it has got to do with Nate; if even more experienced players looked lost under Nate, what do you expect from a rookie. Plus it feels like Nate made zero effort to integrate him into the team's game plans each game and he's just left to find his own way

[DoubleEagle4]

Let's be honest, 2017 was a pretty weak draft. To call him a bust as an 18th pick is a little bit of a stretch. And in all honesty, he really hasn't gotten the chance to prove himself yet. Looking back on the draft, we might have missed out on John Collins (19th) and Kyle Kuzma (27th). But I think we still need to see what he can do with more minutes.

[Scoot McGroot]

I am quite sad for Leaf. But it's not a hopeless case. He sure looked different last season and he was playing inside more than during his rookie year. Maybe he's still trying to find where and how he'd fit? He's clearly our best shooting big when he is clicking, and I think Nate could actually run some plays for him if we need to open up the paint some more. I've watched him back in UCLA, the confidence is just not there.

Leaf talked this offseason about that he’s not a stretch 4. Never was, likely never will be. If we forget that, I think for an 18th pick, he’s developing reasonably well and on a realistic schedule for a young big man. Not as fast as we’d hoped, but, worth his contract and worth keeping around. I definitely would pick up his option on year 4. I just think he’ll continue to get better each of the next two, and he really does seem like a nice counterpiece with Myles and Goga.

Hmm. I didn't knew that we are not prepping him to be a stretch 4, or that he does not intend to be a stretch 4. If that is the case, then he's working on his inside game more last season, it was just odd because this guy can shoot. He's got some serious work to do if the intention is to be somewhat like Domas or Myles who primarily plays inside but can shoot threes. I can see the Pacers picking up his option, provided he improves in bigger minutes.

I think it's that Nate does little scouting and was told, "TJ could be a stretch 4", and Nate heard "This guy is the classic stretch 4 I've been looking for!". TJ said that people view him as a stretch 4, but that's not his game.

Most likely, I think we expected him to be a "stand outside the arc at all times and just fire up 3's stretch 4", and that's not his game at all. He definitely seems like he can hit the 3 on occasion, but that he's much more of a backdoor cut, dribble drive, spin off the post and just score at each stage of the game.

I think it's that we WERE prepping him to be a stretch 4, but that's not at all what's suited to his game. He hit the 3 at UCLA, which was shorter distances, but also at VERY low attempt rates of 58 attempts in 35 games. Can he hit it? Yes. At a better rate than Thad. Is that his game? No. Absolutely not, I believe. And TJ says.

[Wizop]

Most likely, I think we expected him to be a "stand outside the arc at all times and just fire up 3's"

same plan that flopped for Doug.

[Pacercoltboiler]

Don't want to derail the thread, but Doug was better on D than I thought and he is the best cutter on the team. He could get us many layups if we used him that way. Back to Leaf, he is not a stretch. He is a skilled big who can score, rebound, and defend. Use him that way and turn him loose.

[Scoot McGroot]

Don't want to derail the thread, but Doug was better on D than I thought and he is the best cutter on the team. He could get us many layups if we used him that way. Back to Leaf, he is not a stretch. He is a skilled big who can score, rebound, and defend. Use him that way and turn him loose.

Agreed on both, a little less on defend, though. TJ does have good spacing IQ and help. He lacks a bit of the speed to be able to keep up with the PF's on the perimeter though, that he'd need to, especially if he wants the backup minutes with Goga, or in place of Goga. He needs a really good summer of workouts and improvements to work on speed and that lateral mobility, like Myles did this past year.

[Wizop]

ambiguity alert: we've had Hills, and Youngs, and Georges. now we have 2 TJs.