Image

Sabonis

Moderators: pacers33granger, boomershadow, Grang33r, pacerfan, Jake0890

User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 41,728
And1: 11,021
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Sabonis 

Post#41 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:38 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:I think Covington will probably draw more interest than Barnes, even though Barnes has more scoring ability (which the Pacers need) - and part of the sell for Sacramento is getting a do-over on his money.


Do we? We have offensive guys, but we need someone that can defend a 4. Barnes hasn't been that. Covington would be. It's a bit weird that your argument is more along the lines of "Barnes is worse, so you can get him for Sabonis". Sabonis is pretty good. Really good. He should net a fair amount. We don't have to sell out and get a lot worse to swap him for Barnes.


Barnes may be "better" than Covington, I think Covington will attract more trade interest because he's more impactful defensively and easier to slot in on offense on teams that are already mostly constructed - Denver would probably have more interest in Covington than Barnes, for example. Player ability and absolute value - Sabonis *is* really good - don't always line up with relative value when it comes to trades.

Right now it sounds like Pritchard's plan all along has been to pair Sabonis and Turner, give it time, and make it work. If he doesn't have any good options, it may be that Sabonis' reps are holding him over a barrel to extract a fatter contract. I'm guessing Pritchard blinks and gives out more money..



The Pacers front office had an indepth interview a week or two ago, and their team building was well talked about. One of the things they mentioned is that they will ALWAYS listen to offers, and maybe enter trade talks, but will always be honest with their players and keep them abreast of any possible situations. Them listening likely doesn't mean much of anything. A couple extra dollars for Sabonis isn't a worry. If he wants an extra $7-10m a year, well, that's a worry.

Otherwise, Covington is a better player than Barnes overall. Defense matters a ton. Barnes scores more, for sure. But Covington is a guy that can help you win games. Barnes isn't. At least, not yet. Maybe not ever?
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 16,731
And1: 3,972
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#42 » by Wizop » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:30 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Sent from my phone.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 23,145
And1: 8,542
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#43 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:14 pm

Or it’s deemed a non-starter by the Pacers, who think he’s worth less than that - Turner got 18, you get 12-16. Look at Nurkic, Cody Zeller, Clint Capela, Valanciunas, Olynyk..
Grang33r
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 5,814
And1: 400
Joined: May 27, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Sabonis 

Post#44 » by Grang33r » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:21 am

What a bomb shell just before the season.

I fully trust Amick on the report that Pacers are fully engaged in trade talks, he's as legit as it gets. And ESPN saying they are nowhere close. It sounds like they're at a dead end.

So, what can the Pacers realistically get?
The first rule of Basketball: Believe.
Follow on twitter @Grang33r
winter_mute_13
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,996
And1: 1,482
Joined: Oct 08, 2003
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#45 » by winter_mute_13 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 am

I guess we'll find out eventually which side has the unrealistic numbers, but I'll just point out that in recent years, the market for bigs has been very depressed, while players at other positions continue to get inflated salaries. This situation could certainly create unrealistic expectations, whether too high or too low.
User avatar
boomershadow
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 5,300
And1: 6,196
Joined: Jul 14, 2014
Location: Naptown
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#46 » by boomershadow » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:49 am

“There’s not really much to talk about. I know exactly how the Pacers feel about me now. They know how I feel about that and there’s not much more to say. Let my agents do the rest of it and we’ll see what happens," Sabonis told Scott Agness of The Athletic.


Seems a bit over-dramatic in my opinion. These things all have to play out.
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 15,070
And1: 6,579
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#47 » by pacers33granger » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:43 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Or it’s deemed a non-starter by the Pacers, who think he’s worth less than that - Turner got 18, you get 12-16. Look at Nurkic, Cody Zeller, Clint Capela, Valanciunas, Olynyk..


Nurkic and Capela are good comparables. Zeller, Val, and Olynyk really aren't. Domas is much better than those guys with a higher ceiling.
User avatar
Pacersike
Analyst
Posts: 3,385
And1: 823
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium

Re: Sabonis 

Post#48 » by Pacersike » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:31 pm

boomershadow wrote:
“There’s not really much to talk about. I know exactly how the Pacers feel about me now. They know how I feel about that and there’s not much more to say. Let my agents do the rest of it and we’ll see what happens," Sabonis told Scott Agness of The Athletic.


Seems a bit over-dramatic in my opinion. These things all have to play out.

It could be a climax of him getting less opportunities and not as much trust from the Pacers that Turner did get. While being arguably about as good as Turner. And now a possible smaller paycheck.

I'm not saying this tweet is accurate, but it does say something about the perception of the situation, whoever it comes from, Sabonis or Grants imagination or a league source that wants to feel important.
Read on Twitter


Besides, salaries increase every year and both Turner and Sabonis have improved compared with last season.
If KP really offered less than Turners, he is making a bad judgment call.

If Turner feels offended getting paid less than Sabonis, he should have negotiated better or have waited as Sabonis is about to do.
Turners deal is a steal and shouldn't have any influence on Sabonis paycheck, just to keep a pecking order in the lockerroom.

We don't know the numbers and Domas might have every right to react in such a way, especially because our FO loves to talk about how much they care so much about their players. If they can't back it up with actions and lowball Domas, hell yeah he should react as sharp as he is doing right now. Our FO has to know that they have to put their hands where their mouth is.

If a $80 mil contract was on the table, then yeah, Sabonis needs a reality check. Nobody is over- right now, cuz we don't know any figures.
Tom White
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,914
And1: 921
Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Location: Indiana
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#49 » by Tom White » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:43 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Nurkic and Capela are good comparables. Zeller, Val, and Olynyk really aren't. Domas is much better than those guys with a higher ceiling.


Yeah, I had to laugh when I saw McCeltic's post with those names in it. That was a real stretch of the imagination.
User avatar
Pacersike
Analyst
Posts: 3,385
And1: 823
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium

Re: Sabonis 

Post#50 » by Pacersike » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:58 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:I guess we'll find out eventually which side has the unrealistic numbers, but I'll just point out that in recent years, the market for bigs has been very depressed, while players at other positions continue to get inflated salaries. This situation could certainly create unrealistic expectations, whether too high or too low.

Lot's of teams have a good center on their team. Probably because players who would have been 4s in another decade, now have to play the 5.

It does make the market smaller for bigs like Sabonis. Great rebounder but many players pass can pass as good or better than Domas.
Not such a small market for a big like Turner and his elite shotblocking. Very few players can block 2+ per game.

Which is why I prefer to trade Turner for a star player. No not Rozier :lol:
We will get far less trade value for Domas but their overall impact as players is close. And so are Victor and Domas very close.

They need to stay together and Domas is perfect to get regular season wins, which is the Pacers main goal. :)
Domas and Vic are so close that Victor absorbs Domas energy and can't put a smile on his face :D
Turner doesn't know or doesn't feel what Domas is feeling and both cases are a negative when it comes to having great chemistry.
When a close friend might get moved, you don't smile like that and if he doesn't know what's going on, he isn't a caring friend.

Read on Twitter


The above is my opinion but not all.
User avatar
boomershadow
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 5,300
And1: 6,196
Joined: Jul 14, 2014
Location: Naptown
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#51 » by boomershadow » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:04 pm

I highly doubt anybody is trading a "star player" for Sabonis.
User avatar
Jstock12
RealGM
Posts: 10,489
And1: 17,269
Joined: Jun 24, 2012

Re: Sabonis 

Post#52 » by Jstock12 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:09 pm

boomershadow wrote:I highly doubt anybody is trading a "star player" for Sabonis.


Yeah I don't think the Pacers have enough leverage to pull something like that off. Even if you get fair market value for Sabonis he still doesn't fetch you a star player. But in this situation, you wouldn't even get 75 cents on the dollar for Domas.
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 23,145
And1: 8,542
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#53 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:02 am

pacers33granger wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Or it’s deemed a non-starter by the Pacers, who think he’s worth less than that - Turner got 18, you get 12-16. Look at Nurkic, Cody Zeller, Clint Capela, Valanciunas, Olynyk..


Nurkic and Capela are good comparables. Zeller, Val, and Olynyk really aren't. Domas is much better than those guys with a higher ceiling.


I think he’s got a higher ceiling, yeah - I would put him somewhere between Nurkic/Capela and Zeller/Val/Olynyk.. I was pointing out bigs in the salary tier which seems to be Sabonis’s.. And he’s probably on the higher end, 14-16, according to Indiana..

He’s comparable to Valanciunas as a scorer and rebounder, but he’s much more mobile and offensively dynamic - and has a better chance of adding a perimeter shot and improving his defense.
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 15,070
And1: 6,579
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#54 » by pacers33granger » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 pm

In thinking about this, I assume Pritchard is hesitant to offer big money before we really know how the pairing of Domas/Myles will work (or not) longterm. Really wish we had gotten more time with it last year. I love Thad and know he wanted to stay, but he should have been on the move once Vic went down to give it a real shot.
User avatar
boomershadow
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 5,300
And1: 6,196
Joined: Jul 14, 2014
Location: Naptown
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#55 » by boomershadow » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:44 pm

pacers33granger wrote:In thinking about this, I assume Pritchard is hesitant to offer big money before we really know how the pairing of Domas/Myles will work (or not) longterm. Really wish we had gotten more time with it last year. I love Thad and know he wanted to stay, but he should have been on the move once Vic went down to give it a real shot.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record...

100% crazy that they didnt use the second half of last season, when expectations were low and next season was already on everybody's minds, to explore the Turner/Sabonis combo, get a better idea of what we have in Holiday, and maybe get a couple picks in exchange for Thad and DC.
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 15,070
And1: 6,579
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#56 » by pacers33granger » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:48 pm

boomershadow wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:In thinking about this, I assume Pritchard is hesitant to offer big money before we really know how the pairing of Domas/Myles will work (or not) longterm. Really wish we had gotten more time with it last year. I love Thad and know he wanted to stay, but he should have been on the move once Vic went down to give it a real shot.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record...

100% crazy that they didnt use the second half of last season, when expectations were low and next season was already on everybody's minds, to explore the Turner/Sabonis combo, get a better idea of what we have in Holiday, and maybe get a couple picks in exchange for Thad and DC.


Yeah I understand the vets asking not to be traded and being open with players being part of the culture, but still. Specifically with the Domas/Myles pairing, we had a capable backup center sitting at the end of bench in KOQ so it's not like we'd lose out on our backup center minutes.
granger05
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,477
And1: 465
Joined: Dec 15, 2005

Re: Sabonis 

Post#57 » by granger05 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:54 pm

I really hate seeing the quotes from Sabonis over the last couple days. For a team like Indy that values continuity and playing together I think that having a guy get disgruntled could be a real harm. We're asking Sabonis to play differently than the way that would likely maximize his earnings next offseason and if he's unhappy about that then that could ripple out.

This Hield extension maybe throws some cold water on Sabonis's agent. If they were to offer him a duplicate of Myles deal and he took that by today's deadline I'd feel really good about things. I think Turner is a team friendly deal, but a lot of these young centers are ending up with those. I'm not sure if the Pacers aren't willing to go that high to Sabonis or if he isn't willing to accept that deal or what the real situation is currently.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 16,731
And1: 3,972
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#58 » by Wizop » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:17 pm

granger05 wrote:I really hate seeing the quotes from Sabonis over the last couple days.


it's really hard to read between his lines without knowing what he's been offered and what he's asking. is he disappointed because we didn't offer 18 or because we didn't offer 25 or because we stopped hanging up the phone when other teams asked about him?

they say he'll speak to the press on Tuesday. that sure sounds like he's not being traded on Monday.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
winter_mute_13
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,996
And1: 1,482
Joined: Oct 08, 2003
 

Re: Sabonis 

Post#59 » by winter_mute_13 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:05 pm

I think the Hield extension is good news. Hield was talking tough too not so long ago. But the 2 sides found a compromise.

Hield's contract is very heavy on the incentives. Reportedly 4/$86m with up to $20m more in bonuses. Might be that the Pacers and Domas can do something similar to bring their numbers together.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 16,731
And1: 3,972
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Sabonis 

Post#60 » by Wizop » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:06 pm

just got an opening night promo email from the team containing a big picture of Sabonis.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.

Return to Indiana Pacers