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Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers

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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#21 » by Pacersike » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:55 am

Also, this is why Turner still doesn't belong in any DPOY conversation. If he is such a great defender, we would put him on Drummond and Drummond would never torch us like this. Embiid does it, Gobert does it at the WC. You are not the best if it happens to you. No matter how many smaller guys he can stop, you have to be able to hold your own against the best centers.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#22 » by Jake0890 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:19 am

Pacersike wrote:Also, this is why Turner still doesn't belong in any DPOY conversation. If he is such a great defender, we would put him on Drummond and Drummond would never torch us like this. Embiid does it, Gobert does it at the WC. You are not the best if it happens to you. No matter how many smaller guys he can stop, you have to be able to hold your own against the best centers.


100% agree with this. Turner's block stats look nice, but he doesn't play that great of individual defense consistently. Drummond had no business putting up that stat line. We made him look like Embiid.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#23 » by Jake0890 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:28 am

Jake's Game 1 [Over]reactions
- Jeremy Lamb showing shades of Tyreke Evans. Lots of dumb iso ball and low IQ plays. He needs to find his role on offense. This was NOT a good start for him. He's off to a rough start in my book.
- TJ Warren needs to get more involved on offense. When he was involved, he showed some flashes. But he disappeared for much of the game.
- Still hard to judge TJ Leaf. Made some dumb help defense mistakes but offensively the team was reluctant to pass to him, it seems.
- Myles and Sabonis works offensively, clearly. There wasn't much of a problem for them defensively either, imo, but the Pistons front court isn't all that good.
- Still, Myles' individual defense on Drummond was poor, but it didn't have anything to do with Sabonis being out there. He has to stop fishing for blocks and stay in front of his man.
- Why can't Sabonis stay out of foul trouble?
- I liked Brogdon's defense and passing ability.
- Turner's range is very nice.
- Sumner showed flashes of greatness but fell apart in the second half.
- Aaron Holiday never found his groove. He has to improve.
- Not sure what Justin Holiday adds to this team. I guess they're putting him in there for his defense... but, still...
- Dougie was utilized better this game than most of last season. Still, we need to really let him loose.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#24 » by Pacersike » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:15 am

Jake0890 wrote:
Pacersike wrote:Also, this is why Turner still doesn't belong in any DPOY conversation. If he is such a great defender, we would put him on Drummond and Drummond would never torch us like this. Embiid does it, Gobert does it at the WC. You are not the best if it happens to you. No matter how many smaller guys he can stop, you have to be able to hold your own against the best centers.


100% agree with this. Turner's block stats look nice, but he doesn't play that great of individual defense consistently. Drummond had no business putting up that stat line. We made him look like Embiid.

He's one of the best shotblockers the NBA has ever seen and he might be become the first to average 2 threes and 2 blocks, but individually as defender he allows too much production from these great centers. It's just 1 game, but surrounding him with worse defensive players, is going to put his defensive value in a different perspective.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#25 » by Topofthekey » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:56 am

Extremely pleased to see Myles shooting 3pts with a lot more confidence and a lot less hesitation - the one or two second pause before deciding what to do with the ball after catching it is gone, it seems

But as usual, he struggles to contain the big bruisers of the league - to be fair, if he's shooting 3s and blocking shots AND also containing opposing Centers, he would be a max contract type of franchise player, and not on an $18m per year contract EDIT: also, on Drummond's first basket, Myles was actually on Morris, it was Domas and Brogdon who were defending Drummond and their guard, so it's not all Myles' fault

Brogdon got torched a few times - not sure whether that's him not being quick enough, or just him needing time to gel with the team's defense

Sumner seems better in small doses, better suited for the sparkplug off the bench role - he had a few nice steals and also attacked the basket quite effortlessly, but that team high -23 is disconcerting

Domas is more or less how we envisioned him to be as a starter - if he can keep it up, and improve, he'd probably be in the running for MIP, but mostly I just hope he doesn't hit a wall mid-season

Leaf - I kind of feel sorry for him at this point, this is his third season and he's still struggling to get meaningful playing time; with Goga not getting any playing time and Leaf being the primary backup big, one would imagine he'd be an integral part of the rotation, but apparently not

Warren, Doug, Lamb - we really only need 2 out of 3 of them; I still stand by my preseason hot take - Lamb, not great; I know Pacers just signed him, but I hope to see some kind of consolidation trade, packaging him with someone else for an upgrade
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#26 » by boomershadow » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:34 am

Turner's man to man defense has never been great. He makes his name on with his rim protection, which is more important in an era of 3s and layups. There just aren't that many centers in the league anymore who are individual offensive threats. I agree that it's an area he needs to work on, but not that it's as glaring a weakness as some would say.

Idk if he deserves DPOY, but I think getting left off the All Defense teams was a snub.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#27 » by DoubleEagle4 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:09 pm

I don't think we should panic with Lamb yet. He was a very solid player in Charlotte- solid shooter that can rebound and defend. However, he was able to play off Kemba, which opened up a lot for him. Now he is trying to create his own shot. I think he will adjust.

I really wish Doug would have gotten more playing time in the 4th quarter when they were struggling to score. I feel like he has such an underutilized weapon in his 3 point shooting...

Also, TJ McConnell was a great pickup. He is such a solid pg. Basically, the Pacers can give Aaron Holiday a chance each game to see if he's on. If not, McConnell will not be a letdown. I really liked when they had him bring up the ball and tried to get Brogden some shots.

In the end, I feel like Detroit played about as well as they could have played. D-Rose carried them in the first half and Luke Kennard did the work in the 2nd half. Seems like they made all of the big shots they needed to make.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#28 » by Vorda » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:17 pm

Well, we have big problem... we have only two bigs in team who can contribute... I dont Know what's happenning with Goga, but if Nate would play with only Myles and Domas all game that will not be good... weird decision not to sign veteran center
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#29 » by Wizop » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:59 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:Summer is an NBA player!


I think he could pass both AHoliday and TJMcC for backup point guard.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#30 » by Wizop » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:06 pm

Vorda wrote:I dont Know what's happenning with Goga


reporters are saying he isn't in shape yet.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#31 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:15 pm

R-E-L-A-X

It was game one with a bunch of new faces. Remember when LeBron went to Miami and they started like 9-8? Takes time for these new parts to gel. Schedule is really soft early. May be able to still win some ballgames while they figure it out. Panic button is not needed yet.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#32 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:01 pm

One factor lost us this game, Luke Kennard was on fire.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#33 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:06 pm

Jake0890 wrote:Jake's Game 1 [Over]reactions
- Jeremy Lamb showing shades of Tyreke Evans. Lots of dumb iso ball and low IQ plays. He needs to find his role on offense. This was NOT a good start for him. He's off to a rough start in my book.
- TJ Warren needs to get more involved on offense. When he was involved, he showed some flashes. But he disappeared for much of the game.
- Still hard to judge TJ Leaf. Made some dumb help defense mistakes but offensively the team was reluctant to pass to him, it seems.
- Myles and Sabonis works offensively, clearly. There wasn't much of a problem for them defensively either, imo, but the Pistons front court isn't all that good.
- Still, Myles' individual defense on Drummond was poor, but it didn't have anything to do with Sabonis being out there. He has to stop fishing for blocks and stay in front of his man.
- Why can't Sabonis stay out of foul trouble?
- I liked Brogdon's defense and passing ability.
- Turner's range is very nice.
- Sumner showed flashes of greatness but fell apart in the second half.
- Aaron Holiday never found his groove. He has to improve.
- Not sure what Justin Holiday adds to this team. I guess they're putting him in there for his defense... but, still...
- Dougie was utilized better this game than most of last season. Still, we need to really let him loose.


A couple of points, this was the first real game this team has played it's gonna take a while to come together. Sabonis is the only guy in the NBA who can get poked in the eye, kicked in the nuts and other wise trampled and get called for the foul! TJ Leaf is not an NBA player he's a GLeague version of Ryan Anderson. No one can guard Drummond down on the blocks.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#34 » by Grang33r » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:16 pm

Pacersike wrote:Also, this is why Turner still doesn't belong in any DPOY conversation. If he is such a great defender, we would put him on Drummond and Drummond would never torch us like this. Embiid does it, Gobert does it at the WC. You are not the best if it happens to you. No matter how many smaller guys he can stop, you have to be able to hold your own against the best centers.


I think you guys are highly underrating Drummand. He has that type of stat line pretty often. My biggest concern with Turner isn't his lack of defense vs a guy like Drummand but on some of those rebounds, he just plays it a bit too soft and gets out muscled to the ball. One play late in the game he went soft for the rebound and someone out muscled him to it, the got loose and Derrick Rose recovered it. Not a good look, but i think Drummand is a beast.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#35 » by Grang33r » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:36 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:R-E-L-A-X

It was game one with a bunch of new faces. Remember when LeBron went to Miami and they started like 9-8? Takes time for these new parts to gel. Schedule is really soft early. May be able to still win some ballgames while they figure it out. Panic button is not needed yet.


Exactly. I feel the same way. There is just too many new faces and we're missing our best player Vic. It's gonna take time for them to adjust. However, i don't think we have the talent to catch up like that Heat team did. Expectations for this season should be significantly be lowered imo.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#36 » by 8305 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:54 pm

Shades of 2016- 2017 when Domas was off the floor. Turner with no rebounding help is still a problem. TJ Warren with 1 rebound in 33 minutes and he's effectively getting minutes at the 4? If Domas and Myles are playing significant minutes together we will need something from another big.

We missed Cory Joseph and Thad Young tonight at the defensive end. I'm guardedly optimistic Sumner could grow into Cory's role. Not sure I see anyone bringing what we got from Thad.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#37 » by Grang33r » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:21 pm

I thought Warren got better as the game went on. It's too bad he misplayed that last drive that he got hurt on.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#38 » by Jstock12 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:45 pm

Some stats by key guys:

Turner - 76.6% TS, 116 ORtg, 113 DRtg (+3 NetRtg), +3.2 BPM
Warren - 38.8% TS, 76 ORtg, 126 DRtg (-50 NetRtg), -7.6 BPM
Brogdon - 61.7% TS, 132 ORtg, 124 DRtg (+8 NetRtg), +3.8 BPM
Sabonis - 78.5% TS, 147 ORtg, 121 DRtg (+26 NetRtg), +8.1 BPM
Lamb - 40.6% TS, 84 ORtg, 120 DRtg (-36 NetRtg), -4.3 BPM
McDermott - 75.0% TS, 113 ORtg, 118 DRtg (-5 NetRtg), +2.3 BPM
Sumner - 50.0% TS, 100 ORtg, 113 DRtg (-13 NetRtg), +4.4 BPM

Most of this, I think, supports the eye test. Turner & Sumner had the greatest defensive impact in the game, team was scorching hot offensively whenever Sabonis & Brogdon were in, Warren & Lamb just weren't good at all.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#39 » by Pacers_Freak » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:40 pm

Grang33r wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:R-E-L-A-X

It was game one with a bunch of new faces. Remember when LeBron went to Miami and they started like 9-8? Takes time for these new parts to gel. Schedule is really soft early. May be able to still win some ballgames while they figure it out. Panic button is not needed yet.


Exactly. I feel the same way. There is just too many new faces and we're missing our best player Vic. It's gonna take time for them to adjust. However, i don't think we have the talent to catch up like that Heat team did. Expectations for this season should be significantly be lowered imo.


100% agree with you about the talent. Was in no way comparing our talent to the Heat's. Was just pointing out with a bunch of new faces its damn near impossible to come out of the gate well.
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Re: Game Thread 10/23 - Pistons vs. Pacers 

Post#40 » by Wizop » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:24 pm

back to backs are hard but it isn't a good sign that after beating us Detroit lost in Atlanta.
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