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2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All

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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#41 » by Tom White » Thu Feb 6, 2020 9:38 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Curious, why do you consider it horrible for the Pacers


I certainly don't have a strong dislike of any of the players you are suggesting the team trade for, but trading away FOUR rotation players at this point in the season, and while still working Oladipo back into the flow, would be incredibly disrupting to the team. Plus, as pointed was out, the incoming players are going to want playing time, not be coming off the bench behind our current guys.

I think teams that keep changing direction are not doing a proper service to their players. That is what this would be, without even giving this roster a full season together to see what they can become.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#42 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Feb 6, 2020 10:06 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:Wow did you guys see what the Pistons got out of Drummond?


Yeah. Weak return, but if they just have no interest in him possibly exercising his player option and opting in to his almost $29m player option, then it's fine. Plus, they were only $4k under the tax this year, so anyone hitting an unlikely bonus would set them over. This cleared an extra almost $2m, so keeps them safely under.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#43 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Feb 6, 2020 10:41 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:Wow did you guys see what the Pistons got out of Drummond?


Yeah. Weak return, but if they just have no interest in him possibly exercising his player option and opting in to his almost $29m player option, then it's fine. Plus, they were only $4k under the tax this year, so anyone hitting an unlikely bonus would set them over. This cleared an extra almost $2m, so keeps them safely under.


I get the money aspect but Blake Griffin is their real problem. A Pistons fan on the T&T called their team a "dumpster fire!" I would think they could have traded Rose or 2-3 other guys, seems to me they're making Drummond into a scapegoat.

And to think we lost 3 games to them!

I said on the T&T that in effect they got less than the Pacers got out of Roy Hibbert yrs ago.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#44 » by Tom White » Thu Feb 6, 2020 11:15 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:I said on the T&T that in effect they got less than the Pacers got out of Roy Hibbert yrs ago.


Speaking of Hibbert, did he just crash out of basketball entirely? I don't remember reading anything about him playing overseas after he was done in the NBA, so did he actually retire?
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#45 » by basketballwacko2 » Fri Feb 7, 2020 12:24 am

Tom White wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:I said on the T&T that in effect they got less than the Pacers got out of Roy Hibbert yrs ago.


Speaking of Hibbert, did he just crash out of basketball entirely? I don't remember reading anything about him playing overseas after he was done in the NBA, so did he actually retire?



On August 9, 2019, it was reported that Hibbert was hired by the Philadelphia 76ers as player development associate.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#46 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:57 pm

We’ve caught a lot of claims that we can’t afford to keep both Sabonis and Turner at around $36m per year combined. Well, Cleveland acquired Drummond, and will run a 3 man big lineup next year of he, Drummond, and Nance for a combined $72m.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#47 » by Wizop » Fri Feb 7, 2020 3:21 pm

There was a rumor that someone wanted out of a losing situation that could have been Cody Zeller wanting to come home to Indiana. didn't happen of course.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#48 » by boomershadow » Fri Feb 7, 2020 3:55 pm

The return Detroit got for Drummond is absolutely atrocious. They would have been far better off just keeping him imo.

I think GR3 will be a good fit on Philly's bench.

I'm not sure what Miami gained is worth losing Winslow. I'm not convinced an over the hill Iggy moves the needle that much in any direction. Gallo maybe, but I'm still not sure an all in move was necessary or that they gained as much as they thought.

Clippers getting Morris is noteworthy, but I dont think it puts them over the Lakers as much as everyone else seems to think.





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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#49 » by SmashMouthRod » Sat Feb 8, 2020 3:00 am

I know that trades within the conference between contenders dont usually make sense but Im starting to think that a Myles Turner for Joel Embiid trade would be good for both teams. I get that Turner isnt equal value so maybe Indy adds a pick and an additional player to fix the deal. Turner being a stretch 3&D big would fit perfect next to Simmons in the event they build around him with shooting. Myles career would probably take off in that type of role. Whereas Indy could stand to improve with Embiid manning the front next to Sabonis and whenever he needs to load manage; Sabonis and Goga pick up the slack.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#50 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Feb 8, 2020 3:21 am

SmashMouthRod wrote:I know that trades within the conference between contenders dont usually make sense but Im starting to think that a Myles Turner for Joel Embiid trade would be good for both teams. I get that Turner isnt equal value so maybe Indy adds a pick and an additional player to fix the deal. Turner being a stretch 3&D big would fit perfect next to Simmons in the event they build around him with shooting. Myles career would probably take off in that type of role. Whereas Indy could stand to improve with Embiid manning the front next to Sabonis and whenever he needs to load manage; Sabonis and Goga pick up the slack.


I imagine they’d want Turner + Brogdon, maybe + another really good value player?
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#51 » by Topofthekey » Sat Feb 8, 2020 4:16 pm

SmashMouthRod wrote:I know that trades within the conference between contenders dont usually make sense but Im starting to think that a Myles Turner for Joel Embiid trade would be good for both teams. I get that Turner isnt equal value so maybe Indy adds a pick and an additional player to fix the deal. Turner being a stretch 3&D big would fit perfect next to Simmons in the event they build around him with shooting. Myles career would probably take off in that type of role. Whereas Indy could stand to improve with Embiid manning the front next to Sabonis and whenever he needs to load manage; Sabonis and Goga pick up the slack.

Intriguing, but I have a hard time seeing both Embiid and Domas coexisting

I think it's really up to the coaching staff to find a way to maximize the gains from the Myles-Domas pairing

Look at the Bucks, they were an awkward and middling team before, had no idea how best to utilize Giannis, but then they hired Budenholzer and instantly catapulted to the top, with Giannis turning into a perennial MVP candidate

The Pacers' coaching team has so far done a good job, especially Nate who played a big role in shaping the culture of the current roster, but it's obvious they are not bringing out the full potential of Myles and Domas - they need a better X and O's guy
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#52 » by winter_mute_13 » Sat Feb 8, 2020 6:44 pm

Seems like the league is evolving from smallball to ultra smallball, as evidenced by the poor trade return for Capela and Drummond(!).

Turner and Embiid are actually pretty similar in what they bring to the table, except that Embiid is much better of course, so it's hard to see the attraction of that swap for Philly. It's true I guess that the Pacers are trying their hardest to turn Turner into a pure 3&D guy, but IMO that would be a waste of Turner's talent since he's capable of more. On the other hand, it's hard to see how Turner can get more shots - even if you just think of him as a taller McDermott, the Pacers can't exactly just run the same plays they do to free up McD. Turner just isn't the same level of a perimeter threat. Personally, I'm not confident in Turner's future as a Pacer. It would rely on him either continuing to sacrifice his role, or being somehow able to turn into a Nowitzki/Love level of scorer.

Btw if the Pacers are looking for a "true 4 who can play in space", the Bulls' Lauri Markkanen is rumored to be unhappy. Might be someone to target next offseason.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#53 » by Topofthekey » Sun Feb 9, 2020 10:02 pm

It's a star driven league, we all know that - but we like to think that sometimes, if a team plays well, they can still win it all despite not having the very best players, and we often cite the 2011 Mavericks or the 2003 Pistons as examples

But here's a sobering little trivia: in the past 30 years or so, no team has ever won the championship without at least one player who made it to at least the All NBA second team that season

So yes, even the 2003 pistons, they had Ben Wallace who made it to the All NBA second team that season

Yea...

So while no, you don't need the league MVP on your roster in order to win it all, you still need at least one player who is at least at All NBA second team level

And looking at the Pacers, even in Vic's breakout season, he only made it to the All NBA third team

So with that in mind, one of the following must be true:

1. We accept this Pacer team for what it is - a very good team that is very easy to enjoy and cheer for but not built to contend, or

2. We think that this Pacer team can buck history and contend without having at least one player at All NBA second team level, or

3. We think that they ready have someone on the current roster who can develop into that kind of player (maybe Vic, maybe Domas), or

4. Pacers need one more big trade (because signing someone in FA is unlikely) to acquire an All NBA second team talent in order to contend
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#54 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:24 am

In all honesty, the Indiana Pacers have been a team, throughout their entire history, that has been built to compete night in and out as a team, and outside of the ABA years, would need a break to bounce their way in order to win a championship. Unfortunately, our best years ran up against Jordan, Lebron, and Kobe/Shaq in their absolute best years, so it's been tough. I don't know that we have necessarily been built in a way that can sustain the deep valleys to go with the hills. Remember how bad GS was before Curry's ankles healed? They won championships with guys that developed from good to great in Curry, Klay, and Green. Adding Durant helped, but they had already won a championship. Most of the other teams were built and developed within, many without top draft picks.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#55 » by boomershadow » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:41 am

I'm kind of bummed that Darren Collison is staying retired. I saw some posters on the GB saying they didnt think he would even be good for the Lakers, probably because they never watched Pacers games from last year. But I really think if he played at the same level as the year before, he would be a really solid backup PG for a team with championship aspirations.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#56 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:25 am

boomershadow wrote:I'm kind of bummed that Darren Collison is staying retired. I saw some posters on the GB saying they didnt think he would even be good for the Lakers, probably because they never watched Pacers games from last year. But I really think if he played at the same level as the year before, he would be a really solid backup PG for a team with championship aspirations.


I think the time off would worry me if I were to sign him and then depend on him. But, if he is planned around just being a situational guy there who's not terrible at anything, but isn't really good at anything, he'd be fine. He can handle the ball a bit, but he prefers to play off ball. He can shoot the 3 well, but he is hesitant to do so. He's a fine enough defender of certain types of guards, but he's easily overpowered. Changing a locker room chemistry this late for a guy that is a huge question mark as to how ready he is would be a huge question mark.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#57 » by Vorda » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:50 am

boomershadow wrote:I'm kind of bummed that Darren Collison is staying retired. I saw some posters on the GB saying they didnt think he would even be good for the Lakers, probably because they never watched Pacers games from last year. But I really think if he played at the same level as the year before, he would be a really solid backup PG for a team with championship aspirations.


No he wouldnt...we saw him in PO...one of the worst PG ever...
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#58 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:15 pm

Vorda wrote:
boomershadow wrote:I'm kind of bummed that Darren Collison is staying retired. I saw some posters on the GB saying they didnt think he would even be good for the Lakers, probably because they never watched Pacers games from last year. But I really think if he played at the same level as the year before, he would be a really solid backup PG for a team with championship aspirations.


No he wouldnt...we saw him in PO...one of the worst PG ever...


That's dumb.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#59 » by Wizop » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:41 pm

Topofthekey wrote:So while no, you don't need the league MVP on your roster in order to win it all, you still need at least one player who is at least at All NBA second team level


have to think about this as I'm a big advocate for team ball and wish the league didn't market stars over winning teams. they always say something like "coming up it'll be A and the B's followed by X and the Y's." anyway, this could be a chicken and the egg question. does a top team need an all NBA player or is the best player on a top team pretty much guaranteed an all NBA slot?
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#60 » by Pacers_Freak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:46 pm

Topofthekey wrote:It's a star driven league, we all know that - but we like to think that sometimes, if a team plays well, they can still win it all despite not having the very best players, and we often cite the 2011 Mavericks or the 2003 Pistons as examples

But here's a sobering little trivia: in the past 30 years or so, no team has ever won the championship without at least one player who made it to at least the All NBA second team that season

So yes, even the 2003 pistons, they had Ben Wallace who made it to the All NBA second team that season

Yea...

So while no, you don't need the league MVP on your roster in order to win it all, you still need at least one player who is at least at All NBA second team level

And looking at the Pacers, even in Vic's breakout season, he only made it to the All NBA third team

So with that in mind, one of the following must be true:

1. We accept this Pacer team for what it is - a very good team that is very easy to enjoy and cheer for but not built to contend, or

2. We think that this Pacer team can buck history and contend without having at least one player at All NBA second team level, or

3. We think that they ready have someone on the current roster who can develop into that kind of player (maybe Vic, maybe Domas), or

4. Pacers need one more big trade (because signing someone in FA is unlikely) to acquire an All NBA second team talent in order to contend


Some here may not like it, but the answer is #1. IMO for a Indy, Mil, Det, etc to be championship caliber they are going to have to get lucky and land a Giannis type in the draft.

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