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2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All

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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#81 » by Topofthekey » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:08 pm

Nate's great as a moral compass leader kind of coach

Remember the whole experience with Tyreke Evans just one season ago - I can see it as something that could've easily led to a toxic locker room if it was another team, but it barely had any effect on the Pacers, because the team has a great culture and Nate deserves a lot of credit for that

This Pacer team is also extremely unselfish, and again a chunk of the credit goes to Nate, so yes he's a great coach and leader that way

But as I said, they need a better X and O's guy - Nate's just not very great in this area

It manifested itself in how lost the team looked sometimes on offense the past two seasons - I still can't forget how dumb the entire team looked as soon as the Cavs started double teaming and trapping Vic in the playoffs

Things do look a lot better this season, but that can probably be attributed to the presence of Domas in the SL, and also the addition of Brogdon and TJM at point guard

Domas and Myles also look as if they were left to their own devices in terms of figuring things out on how to co-exist - I don't want to call anyone a freeloader, but the Pacer big man coach has to really buck up

Just throwing them out there and letting them play and seeing what happens is not coaching
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#82 » by boomershadow » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:20 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
boomershadow wrote:The last really good Xs and Os coach we have had was probably Rick Carlisle. The effect of coaching is pretty underrated in the NBA because the narrative is always "hurr hurr star player winz".
But players have to be put in the position to maximize their skills. Every NBA team wants more talent, but I dont think anyone thinks we are getting the most out of the talent we currently have, and that's on McMillan.


Not defending this 6 game skid. But, prior to that many would have had Nate in the top 3 in COY voting. I think the team without Vic and all the other injuries very much over achieved. I'm not a staunch Nate defender. This is skid is not good and certainly some of the blame goes to him. But I think its easy in a skid to say the coach needs to go or whatever. If you think coaching is underrated then I'm guessing you are a big Nate fan with how this team was playing with all their injuries prior to this skid?


I think Nate is a solid motivator who sets high expectations for the work that players need to put in and gets guys to go hard night and night out throughout the regular season. His teams have almost always exceeded expectations in the W/L column during the regular season. And for a small market team like the Pacers, that's really pretty good. Compared to the Jim Boylens, David Fizdales, late-career George Karl, and all the crazy, incompetent head coaches we have seen run through bad franchises, McMillan looks like a staunch professional. And he is. He is a hard working, tough minded type of coach who gets his guys to play hard. Keeping an undermanned or under talented team in the playoff picture is like Nate's forte as a coach.

On the other hand, we haven't seen Nate take a star player, capitalize on his abilities, and build an elite offense around him. That's what it takes to win playoff games. That's what takes a team from just getting to the playoffs to being a team that people expect to see in the 2nd round, ECF, or beyond. I honestly expect the Pacers to be a perennial first round exit under McMillan, because that's the coach that McMillan has been his entire career, and nothing I see from the action on the court makes me think otherwise. Stuff like Oladipo being back or not, keeping Turner or trading him, this rotation or that, this FA target or another one, play the young guys or play the vets, I don't think any of that moves the needle much in any direction as long as the coaching stays the same.

Being a first round exit team isn't so bad for a small market team like the Pacers. It would be so much worse to be a fan of the Kings or something. The Pacers really are in an okay position, but it just kinda is what it is. I'd love to be wrong.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#83 » by Tom White » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm

Topofthekey wrote:................the Pacer big man coach has to really buck up


Do the Pacers actually have a big man coach? Is it supposed to be Popeye or.....?
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#84 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:28 pm

I'm with y'all. In football, this is where a coach would look to hire a young up and comer to utilize some fresh ideas as an offensive coordinator and experiment a bit. Think Ed Orgeron at LSU. A terrible offensive mind, but a great motivator and leader, and someone smart enough to know his weaknesses and hire people that fill them.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#85 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:33 pm

From the 2016 release announcing the still current coaching staff:
This will be Jones' fourth season with the Pacers where he has worked with team centers and forwards, along with game/opponent preparation.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#86 » by Topofthekey » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:From the 2016 release announcing the still current coaching staff:
This will be Jones' fourth season with the Pacers where he has worked with team centers and forwards, along with game/opponent preparation.

I'm beginning to confront the possible reality that we might be wasting Myles' tenure here by not having anyone who can develop/coach him properly
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#87 » by Tom White » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:08 pm

Topofthekey wrote:I'm beginning to confront the possible reality that we might be wasting Myles' tenure here by not having anyone who can develop/coach him properly


I wouldn't put that all on the coaches. I think Myles has some trouble seeing the entire floor and understanding positioning and such. It is just not a thing he mentally "gets" automatically. That is NOT to say he is dumb or anything, just that it is not something that comes instinctively to him.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#88 » by Topofthekey » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:52 am

Seems like AG's trade value has really taken a dive

Let's trade for him in the off-season, as the combo forward off the bench
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#89 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:20 am

Topofthekey wrote:Seems like AG's trade value has really taken a dive

Let's trade for him in the off-season, as the combo forward off the bench


If I could get him for Lamb/Leaf, I would. Anything more than just a 2nd included and it's too expensive for me. But, we also don't know his value has taken a dive. According to that report, Orlando wanted Russell in a deal from GS for Gordon. There's a wide range between Russell and "taken a dive".
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#90 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm

boomershadow wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
boomershadow wrote:The last really good Xs and Os coach we have had was probably Rick Carlisle. The effect of coaching is pretty underrated in the NBA because the narrative is always "hurr hurr star player winz".
But players have to be put in the position to maximize their skills. Every NBA team wants more talent, but I dont think anyone thinks we are getting the most out of the talent we currently have, and that's on McMillan.


Not defending this 6 game skid. But, prior to that many would have had Nate in the top 3 in COY voting. I think the team without Vic and all the other injuries very much over achieved. I'm not a staunch Nate defender. This is skid is not good and certainly some of the blame goes to him. But I think its easy in a skid to say the coach needs to go or whatever. If you think coaching is underrated then I'm guessing you are a big Nate fan with how this team was playing with all their injuries prior to this skid?


I think Nate is a solid motivator who sets high expectations for the work that players need to put in and gets guys to go hard night and night out throughout the regular season. His teams have almost always exceeded expectations in the W/L column during the regular season. And for a small market team like the Pacers, that's really pretty good. Compared to the Jim Boylens, David Fizdales, late-career George Karl, and all the crazy, incompetent head coaches we have seen run through bad franchises, McMillan looks like a staunch professional. And he is. He is a hard working, tough minded type of coach who gets his guys to play hard. Keeping an undermanned or under talented team in the playoff picture is like Nate's forte as a coach.

On the other hand, we haven't seen Nate take a star player, capitalize on his abilities, and build an elite offense around him. That's what it takes to win playoff games. That's what takes a team from just getting to the playoffs to being a team that people expect to see in the 2nd round, ECF, or beyond. I honestly expect the Pacers to be a perennial first round exit under McMillan, because that's the coach that McMillan has been his entire career, and nothing I see from the action on the court makes me think otherwise. Stuff like Oladipo being back or not, keeping Turner or trading him, this rotation or that, this FA target or another one, play the young guys or play the vets, I don't think any of that moves the needle much in any direction as long as the coaching stays the same.

Being a first round exit team isn't so bad for a small market team like the Pacers. It would be so much worse to be a fan of the Kings or something. The Pacers really are in an okay position, but it just kinda is what it is. I'd love to be wrong.


I don't necessarily disagree, but in fairness he's only had one year with a star here.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#91 » by Wizop » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Wiretap says Magic tried hard and failed to find a taker for Gordon. I think that ship sailed a few years ago.

I was very encouraged by our 4th quarter last night. the 2nd unit wasn't getting the job done and McMillan pulled their plugs. I would have played Turner a bit more at the end but Warren at the 4 worked well. (you know Warren's only an inch shorter than Gordon if you go by the posted heights.) we also showed a bit of zone which tells me that McMillan has given directions to Burke.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#92 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:16 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:From the 2016 release announcing the still current coaching staff:
This will be Jones' fourth season with the Pacers where he has worked with team centers and forwards, along with game/opponent preparation.

I'm beginning to confront the possible reality that we might be wasting Myles' tenure here by not having anyone who can develop/coach him properly

Didn't Sasquatch Bill Walton work with Rik Smits when he was a rookie? I bet he needs a job. More so I just want Turner to gain about 20 lbs of muscle!
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#93 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:29 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Seems like AG's trade value has really taken a dive

Let's trade for him in the off-season, as the combo forward off the bench


$20 million for a back up PF? Some people say he is a SF but IDK. I warren is as good as Gordon. I saw on the T&T there were people saying his value was low, but we don't really know how Orlando values him.

The guy we need in the 2nd unit is Thad Young, but since he left who knows how her be about coming back? The other guy who would be great is John Collins who we should have drafted instead of Leaf. :crazy:
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#94 » by Wizop » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:56 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:Didn't Sasquatch Bill Walton work with Rik Smits when he was a rookie? I bet he needs a job. More so I just want Turner to gain about 20 lbs of muscle!


didn't Turner work with McHale last summer? my first choice though would be for him and Damos to summer in Lithuania and work with Papa Sabonis.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#95 » by basketballwacko2 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:51 pm

Wizop wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:Didn't Sasquatch Bill Walton work with Rik Smits when he was a rookie? I bet he needs a job. More so I just want Turner to gain about 20 lbs of muscle!


didn't Turner work with McHale last summer? my first choice though would be for him and Damos to summer in Lithuania and work with Papa Sabonis.


I like it! Put Turner on a diet if T-bone steaks and barbells over the summer in Lithuania.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#96 » by Topofthekey » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm

I for one would rather Turner work on his jumpshot and 3pt shooting

He's tall enough that he should be able to shoot over most defenders, especially with small ball lineups being common place

The dream is he adds a solid and reliable fadeaway jumper to his arsenal - he'd basically be a Dirk Nowitzki who also blocks shots
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#97 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:36 pm

To be a Dirk Nowitzki who also blocks shots would be one of the greatest basketball players of all time. A small ask, it seems :lol: Also, a reliable fadeaway jumper is one of the toughest shots in basketball, especially for a big man. There's a reason that, in recent history, only all time greats like Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan has effectively developed it.

To me, I just want him to develop the confidence to take the open shots when he has them. Too often he passes up the open shot his teammates expect him to take, and then has to take a shot that is tougher as the defender has recovered. This is what he's been better at when he plays so well. He just needs to develop more of an attacker mindset. In my opinion, of course.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#98 » by Wizop » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:19 pm

I think I heard that Bayno is the big man coach except Popeye was coaching Turner before Bayno got here and they chose not to change that.
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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#99 » by Wizop » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:34 pm

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Re: 2020 Trade Deadline Catch-All 

Post#100 » by Topofthekey » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:29 am

Lol one can dream

You're right though that the single biggest improvement he can make right now is to be more assertive - he hesitates way too much when getting the ball

He just hit a buzzer beating 3 btw

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