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Nate signs 1 year extension (No Hot Seat)

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Nate signs 1 year extension (No Hot Seat) 

Post#1 » by boomershadow » Fri Aug 7, 2020 7:50 pm

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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#2 » by Tom White » Fri Aug 7, 2020 8:38 pm

I'd sooner believe that Van Gundy is angling for a coaching job than that Nate is on the hot seat. Look at the injuries this team has had this year, then look at their record. Over-achieving I'd say.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#3 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Aug 7, 2020 10:24 pm

Tom White wrote:I'd sooner believe that Van Gundy is angling for a coaching job than that Nate is on the hot seat. Look at the injuries this team has had this year, then look at their record. Over-achieving I'd say.


This was my first thought too.

But, maybe pre season it was something to look at? Now? As he’s really adjusted and played 3 guard lineups, 3 wing lineups, 2 big lineups, one big lineup, etc, he’s shown that he’s more willing to adjust than we thought. I’ve seen enough from him that I’d be more than happy if he sticks around awhile. I’d prefer that Popeye and/or Bayno move on and we find a real offensive minded assistant coach to truly pair with Burke. And a true developmental coach, too.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#4 » by boomershadow » Sat Aug 8, 2020 1:05 am

One issue is that there aren't tons of great replacement options out there at the moment. Dave Joeger? His teams have generally outperformed their expectations, which I don't think the Pacers have done under Nate, but he is also known for being tough to get along with and adversarial with the front offices he worked (though they probably deserved it).

Kenny Atkinson? He did well with the youth in Brooklyn, but we haven't seen him try to take a team seriously to the next level. I actually know very little about what the Nets were doing during that time except they were a young team focused on player development. Could be a good change to a guy that is more player friendly after these last few years of Sarge.

MDA? That would be a total 180 from our current playstyle. We also have 3 guys big enough to play center on the team, which might be a dealbreaker for them. The Pacers should probably shoot more threes than they have under McMillan, but turning into the total chuckfest that the rockets have been is probably an overreaction.

There are probably assistants worth taking a look at, but I don't really follow them closely. There are some retreads that really aren't that interesting. Lue. Woodson, Kidd. Jackson. Brown. Van Gundy.

At least Thibs is off the table. Thank goodness
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#5 » by Topofthekey » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:05 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Tom White wrote:I'd sooner believe that Van Gundy is angling for a coaching job than that Nate is on the hot seat. Look at the injuries this team has had this year, then look at their record. Over-achieving I'd say.


This was my first thought too.

But, maybe pre season it was something to look at? Now? As he’s really adjusted and played 3 guard lineups, 3 wing lineups, 2 big lineups, one big lineup, etc, he’s shown that he’s more willing to adjust than we thought. I’ve seen enough from him that I’d be more than happy if he sticks around awhile. I’d prefer that Popeye and/or Bayno move on and we find a real offensive minded assistant coach to truly pair with Burke. And a true developmental coach, too.

Basically every point mentioned here

Nate's willingness to experiment with a 3 guard lineup has earned him a stay of execution, in my books at least

Still, the team can really benefit from a good, offensive specialist, X-and-O's kind of assistant coach

And I'm certain that if Myles played for a different team, say Celtics, he would have been a perennial all-star by now. But as it is, his development has been lagging behind, together with that of Goga's (and yes, Leaf is in the same boat as well). Seems quite clear that Pacers aren't doing a great job at developing their big men
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#6 » by pacers33granger » Sat Aug 8, 2020 10:07 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
And I'm certain that if Myles played for a different team, say Celtics, he would have been a perennial all-star by now. But as it is, his development has been lagging behind, together with that of Goga's (and yes, Leaf is in the same boat as well). Seems quite clear that Pacers aren't doing a great job at developing their big men


I don't know how fair that is. Myles has come a long way and the coaching staff has a hand in it. He has some really awesome tools, but part of it is on him for not maximizing them. He clearly overthinks a bit too much and isn't as cerebral as other players. I honestly don't think he's an all star elsewhere, much less a perennial one.

And what about Domas? He was a late lotto prospect that had a very underwhelming rookie year, but became an instant contributor in year two and then became an all star before his rookie deal was up.

Goga is too early to tell on. And Leaf just sucks, no amount of coaching could change the shortcomings he has.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#7 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 9, 2020 2:44 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
And I'm certain that if Myles played for a different team, say Celtics, he would have been a perennial all-star by now. But as it is, his development has been lagging behind, together with that of Goga's (and yes, Leaf is in the same boat as well). Seems quite clear that Pacers aren't doing a great job at developing their big men


I don't know how fair that is. Myles has come a long way and the coaching staff has a hand in it. He has some really awesome tools, but part of it is on him for not maximizing them. He clearly overthinks a bit too much and isn't as cerebral as other players. I honestly don't think he's an all star elsewhere, much less a perennial one.

And what about Domas? He was a late lotto prospect that had a very underwhelming rookie year, but became an instant contributor in year two and then became an all star before his rookie deal was up.

Goga is too early to tell on. And Leaf just sucks, no amount of coaching could change the shortcomings he has.

I think precisely because Myles isn't a very cerebral player he would benefit more from playing on a team like the Celtics, compared to the relatively more laissez-faire approach of Nate
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#8 » by pacers33granger » Sun Aug 9, 2020 3:26 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
And I'm certain that if Myles played for a different team, say Celtics, he would have been a perennial all-star by now. But as it is, his development has been lagging behind, together with that of Goga's (and yes, Leaf is in the same boat as well). Seems quite clear that Pacers aren't doing a great job at developing their big men


I don't know how fair that is. Myles has come a long way and the coaching staff has a hand in it. He has some really awesome tools, but part of it is on him for not maximizing them. He clearly overthinks a bit too much and isn't as cerebral as other players. I honestly don't think he's an all star elsewhere, much less a perennial one.

And what about Domas? He was a late lotto prospect that had a very underwhelming rookie year, but became an instant contributor in year two and then became an all star before his rookie deal was up.

Goga is too early to tell on. And Leaf just sucks, no amount of coaching could change the shortcomings he has.

I think precisely because Myles isn't a very cerebral player he would benefit more from playing on a team like the Celtics, compared to the relatively more laissez-faire approach of Nate


Perhaps he would, but I'm not sure it'd be that much better. He would probably just be relegated to standing at the 3 point line though like their centers tend to be, which is exactly what Nate did early on. He's going to be streaky no matter where he's at.

Make no mistake, I dislike Nate's approach to offense. I think it's been bad for Brogdon, Myles, and a few others. It's fairly telling that Justin and Doug can't get an open look without Domas.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#9 » by Tom White » Sun Aug 9, 2020 5:38 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Make no mistake, I dislike Nate's approach to offense. I think it's been bad for Brogdon, Myles, and a few others. It's fairly telling that Justin and Doug can't get an open look without Domas.


I think Nate gets more blame than he is due for the offense. I'm not sure about Doug, but Justin has been getting looks, he just isn't hitting right now. Yes, they do miss Domas. That is part of the problem with the offense currently. He is one very basketball-smart guy. You don't expect Myles to make the same plays or passes out of the post that Domas makes, do you? 'Cause that is not gonna happen, and that's not on Nate. Its only that Myles simply doesn't think the game on the same level Domas does. Also, how do you explain Warren having a career defining stretch? Must be bad coaching?

It just seems a bit knee-jerk that after they have had only one bad game since the restart, someone thinks Nate is on the hot seat.

Darn, guys, the team is on a 4-1 streak. Let's enjoy it.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#10 » by pacers33granger » Sun Aug 9, 2020 6:54 pm

Tom White wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Make no mistake, I dislike Nate's approach to offense. I think it's been bad for Brogdon, Myles, and a few others. It's fairly telling that Justin and Doug can't get an open look without Domas.


I think Nate gets more blame than he is due for the offense. I'm not sure about Doug, but Justin has been getting looks, he just isn't hitting right now. Yes, they do miss Domas. That is part of the problem with the offense currently. He is one very basketball-smart guy. You don't expect Myles to make the same plays or passes out of the post that Domas makes, do you? 'Cause that is not gonna happen, and that's not on Nate. Its only that Myles simply doesn't think the game on the same level Domas does. Also, how do you explain Warren having a career defining stretch? Must be bad coaching?

It just seems a bit knee-jerk that after they have had only one bad game since the restart, someone thinks Nate is on the hot seat.

Darn, guys, the team is on a 4-1 streak. Let's enjoy it.


Nate should get credit for things such as Warren's play, Domas' play, Vic's play, Aaron's play, etc. I've generally defended Nate on here, including in this thread. He has some very good strengths and I'm not for replacing him but that also has to do with the fact that there isn't a great option out there that I'm aware of.

But there are issues with his offense that will continue to limit the team's ceiling unless TJ keeps playing like a superstar iso scorer. We should be able to get more open looks for shooters than we currently are. Sure, we won't get nearly as many without Domas. We get nearly none out of sets without Domas though and that's an issue. At that point we're relying on fast breaks and hot shooting, which always fails in the playoffs.

Too many plays end with whoever has the ball making something up. That works for TJ, Vic, and Domas generally. It works for Brogdon some of the time. It doesn't work for Myles or any of the bench players except Lamb. And it doesn't work to put pressure on the defense.

Other than JVG mentioning it and the quote getting spread around though, I wouldn't necessarily call it knee jerk. It's been talked about routinely that Nate just likely isn't the guy to take the team to the next level. Maybe management is thinking now is the time to look at someone else? Maybe it's just JVG blowing smoke.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#11 » by boomershadow » Sun Aug 9, 2020 8:53 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Tom White wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Make no mistake, I dislike Nate's approach to offense. I think it's been bad for Brogdon, Myles, and a few others. It's fairly telling that Justin and Doug can't get an open look without Domas.


I think Nate gets more blame than he is due for the offense. I'm not sure about Doug, but Justin has been getting looks, he just isn't hitting right now. Yes, they do miss Domas. That is part of the problem with the offense currently. He is one very basketball-smart guy. You don't expect Myles to make the same plays or passes out of the post that Domas makes, do you? 'Cause that is not gonna happen, and that's not on Nate. Its only that Myles simply doesn't think the game on the same level Domas does. Also, how do you explain Warren having a career defining stretch? Must be bad coaching?

It just seems a bit knee-jerk that after they have had only one bad game since the restart, someone thinks Nate is on the hot seat.

Darn, guys, the team is on a 4-1 streak. Let's enjoy it.


Nate should get credit for things such as Warren's play, Domas' play, Vic's play, Aaron's play, etc. I've generally defended Nate on here, including in this thread. He has some very good strengths and I'm not for replacing him but that also has to do with the fact that there isn't a great option out there that I'm aware of.

But there are issues with his offense that will continue to limit the team's ceiling unless TJ keeps playing like a superstar iso scorer. We should be able to get more open looks for shooters than we currently are. Sure, we won't get nearly as many without Domas. We get nearly none out of sets without Domas though and that's an issue. At that point we're relying on fast breaks and hot shooting, which always fails in the playoffs.

Too many plays end with whoever has the ball making something up. That works for TJ, Vic, and Domas generally. It works for Brogdon some of the time. It doesn't work for Myles or any of the bench players except Lamb. And it doesn't work to put pressure on the defense.

Other than JVG mentioning it and the quote getting spread around though, I wouldn't necessarily call it knee jerk. It's been talked about routinely that Nate just likely isn't the guy to take the team to the next level. Maybe management is thinking now is the time to look at someone else? Maybe it's just JVG blowing smoke.


The biggest issue for me is that the hands off approach to offense doesnt work as well in the playoffs when other teams' defense really has time and energy to clamp down. Regardless of the talent level on the team, making it up on fly doesnt work n the postseason unless you got a legit star level creator.

The curent team has more offensive firepower now than it did a year ago, which is encouraging, but last year's team wasn't devoid of offensive talent when it scored 71, 94, 96, and 106 points against a Celtics team that only won one game in the second round.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#12 » by pacers33granger » Sun Aug 9, 2020 10:26 pm

boomershadow wrote:The biggest issue for me is that the hands off approach to offense doesnt work as well in the playoffs when other teams' defense really has time and energy to clamp down. Regardless of the talent level on the team, making it up on fly doesnt work n the postseason unless you got a legit star level creator.

The curent team has more offensive firepower now than it did a year ago, which is encouraging, but last year's team wasn't devoid of offensive talent when it scored 71, 94, 96, and 106 points against a Celtics team that only won one game in the second round.


Exactly. Unless you have a top 10 of all time level talent, it's very likely not going to work.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#13 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:11 pm

Also, it’s not like we haven’t fired really, really good coaches in the past. We didn’t renew Vogel. We fired Carlisle when he had NO FAULT whatsoever in his team collapsing. Didn’t we fire Larry Brown?
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#14 » by boomershadow » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:35 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Also, it’s not like we haven’t fired really, really good coaches in the past. We didn’t renew Vogel. We fired Carlisle when he had NO FAULT whatsoever in his team collapsing. Didn’t we fire Larry Brown?


I think Brown asked to get let out of his contract after a losing year. He was always was on the move looking for a better spot for himself or to work with a better roster.

And Carlisle....I always thought we kinda did him a favor letting him go. The organization knew he hadn't signed up for an extended rebuild, and that's what was on our plate in the aftermath of the Malice at the Palace.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#15 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:06 am

boomershadow wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Also, it’s not like we haven’t fired really, really good coaches in the past. We didn’t renew Vogel. We fired Carlisle when he had NO FAULT whatsoever in his team collapsing. Didn’t we fire Larry Brown?


I think Brown asked to get let out of his contract after a losing year. He was always was on the move looking for a better spot for himself or to work with a better roster.

And Carlisle....I always thought we kinda did him a favor letting him go. The organization knew he hadn't signed up for an extended rebuild, and that's what was on our plate in the aftermath of the Malice at the Palace.


Absolutely agree on both. I mean, Carlisle showed up to his firing press conference and answered questions. And was smiling with such relief like we hadn’t seen in his entirety here. That just never happens.
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#16 » by Tom White » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:39 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Absolutely agree on both. I mean, Carlisle showed up to his firing press conference and answered questions. And was smiling with such relief like we hadn’t seen in his entirety here. That just never happens.


Yes, Carlisle looked and sounded like a heavy load had just been removed from his shoulders.

Not to make this political, but I do watch a lot of news and I would compare Carlisle's reaction to that of John Boehner when he resigned from Congress. A reporter asked him how he was feeling, and he started singing "zippity-doo-da".
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#17 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:06 pm

Tom White wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Absolutely agree on both. I mean, Carlisle showed up to his firing press conference and answered questions. And was smiling with such relief like we hadn’t seen in his entirety here. That just never happens.


Yes, Carlisle looked and sounded like a heavy load had just been removed from his shoulders.

Not to make this political, but I do watch a lot of news and I would compare Carlisle's reaction to that of John Boehner when he resigned from Congress. A reporter asked him how he was feeling, and he started singing "zippity-doo-da".


Well, he's now heavy into marijuana legalization and is a huge investor in the industry. He's living his "good life" now!
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#18 » by Tom White » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:42 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Well, he's now heavy into marijuana legalization and is a huge investor in the industry. He's living his "good life" now!


HA! Had no idea. So, maybe it wasn't leaving congress that had him singing Zippity-Doo-Da, huh?
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#19 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:58 pm

Tom White wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Well, he's now heavy into marijuana legalization and is a huge investor in the industry. He's living his "good life" now!


HA! Had no idea. So, maybe it wasn't leaving congress that had him singing Zippity-Doo-Da, huh?


Right?!?

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/16/704086782/john-boehner-was-once-unalterably-opposed-to-marijuana-he-now-wants-it-to-be-leg
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Re: Nate in the Hot Seat?? 

Post#20 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:48 pm

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