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Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner?

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Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#1 » by Lazlo4D » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:12 pm

I really like Myles Turner but after watching this playoff series, it does feel as if he may be close to his ceiling. Also Goga is going to need more minutes, next year, as he has looked good in his limited minutes of this series. Plus it does seem as if Centers (4' & 5's) are readily available in the Free Agent Market the last few years.

If the Celtics can't get past the Raptors in the second round, they might be willing to shuffle their deck a little. Especially with their salaries rising and Hayword likely not to opt out. They need a quality big & soon have to give Tatum a big deal too.

Boston Trades: Jaylen Brown ($22.8M) & the 2020 14th Pick (from Memphis)
Indiana Trades: Myles Turner ($18M) & TJ Leaf ($4M)

That 14th pick could get us a guy who drops in the draft or as nice trade chip. The 2020-21 salaries work and, IMHO, this Pacers lineup would be deeper, faster, and have better offensive potential:

TJ Warren / McDermott
Jaylen Brown / Lamb / #14 pick
Sabonis / Goga / Sampson / Alize Johnson
Oladipo / Holiday / Holiday
Brogdan / TJ McConnell /Sumner
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#2 » by pacers33granger » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:13 pm

Boston won't trade brown for Myles straight up. There's no way we're getting a pick and dumping Leaf as well.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#3 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:03 pm

Honestly, I don't think Myles is the problem

I still think that with better coaching, Myles can average 15-17 ppg quite easily, and still be an anchor on defense

Now, if what you're saying instead is that from an investment perspective, we should consider trading Myles because he isn't likely to improve a whole lot more (thereby implying his stock is pretty much near as high as it can get, therefore it's time to sell), well I agree and disagree at the same time

I disagree, because like I said I do think that Myles can still make a small leap, with the correct coaching. Meaning, Myles' stock CAN go higher, a lot higher actually. Just imagine his trade value if he's averaging something like 16ppg. He'll be a perennial All-Star at that point, and Pacers can get something really substantial in return for him. Of course, also at that point, you might not want to see Pacers trade him

On the other hand, I agree that from an investment perspective, it may be time to seek out a trade for Myles, because I am not confident at all that the Pacers will be able to make the kind of coaching change that is able to bring out Myles' full potential. More likely, Pacers play it safe and stick to the status quo. And at some point, Myles would actually start losing trade value, even if he maintained his level of play. Part of the allure of Myles to the other teams is that he's still young at 24, and they believe that they would be able to bring out Myles' potential if they acquired him. That allure is going to fade as Myles hits 25, 26, 27, and so on. So yes, from an investment perspective, it does make sense to consider trading Myles sooner rather than later
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#4 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:08 pm

I would absolutely listen to offers on Myles, just like I would on most anyone on the roster. But, the holes it would create in dealing Myles means we would need a specific return, which also limits our possible returns in trade.

As for the suggestion, well, Boston probably wouldn't consider the Brown for Myles deal straight up. They certainly wouldn't add picks. They would probably take back Leaf only in that it would be the cheapest and shortest deal back that would make the deal work legally for matching salaries.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#5 » by jofanitres » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:36 pm

For this specific trade, I agree with what the rest of people said. And TJ Leaf is enough of being a benchwarmer, he is likely to move to Israel league.

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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#6 » by boomershadow » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:53 pm

For years, I have been one of the ones most stubbornly opposed to trading Turner.

But I don't think Nate can get the most out of him. And if the team is set on keeping Nate as the coach, they also need to bring in guys that are gonna fit how he runs things better than Turner does imo. I've been hoping that as time goes along, Turner would develop a little better individual skill set, or that the offensive system would evolve to include him a little more, or that Nate would get fired and a new coach would better be able to put him in a position to succeed. If none of those are gonna happen, then it probably is time to move on from Turner and see if there are better pieces to get in exchange.

That doesn't mean I don't like Turner as a player. I actually think he has a lot of untapped potential, but if this team isn't going to tap it then I bet there is a team out there that will give us some usable pieces in return for him.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#7 » by pacers33granger » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:00 am

I get why it has happened each year, but Myles would be better and more confident if he had a clearly defined role for more than 6 months at a time. Seems every time he works on an aspect of his game the team needs him to play a different way.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#8 » by Topofthekey » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:40 am

It's not just Myles

I don't think Brogdon or Goga are suited for Nate's style as well

If the team decides to stick with Nate, they need to make some drastic changes to the roster

Either that, or bring in a coach who can maximize what the Pacers already have on the roster
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#9 » by Pacersike » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:40 pm

I believe there are better fits and coaches for Myles. I believe he can still significantly improve on his own, I really do.

I just happen to like Sabonis a bit better and think he can help us more playing center for us. Thoughts developed years ago.

What we do (not big spenders) and who we are (not the absolute elite talent) we have to excell in team chemistry, so to me the question never was can Myles and Domas play well enough together, but can they become a great combination together?

My answer to that question was always possible but nearly impossible. Only for the right package we should trade him, yes.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#10 » by NYG » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:48 pm

What would the Pacers be looking for in return? Both skill wise and position wise? Who are some targets that fit?
Atlantic https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/17/atlantic-division-mock-off-season/
Central https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/22/central-division-mock-off-season/
Southeast https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/11/southeast-division-mock-off-season/
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#11 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:19 pm

NYG wrote:What would the Pacers be looking for in return? Both skill wise and position wise? Who are some targets that fit?



The always tough thing is that we’d need a defensive option at the 4 level hat could protect Sabonis and Warren. As we saw in these playoffs, if Warren is focusing so much on offense, his defense is passable in a team setting, at best. There’s just not that many options. A Jon Isaac fits, but he’s either not available, or he’ll take 1-2 more seasons to rehab and be productive. There’s not really an option in this draft either. It’s just tough to identify a fit with this highly specific roster we’ve built.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#12 » by NYG » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:19 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
NYG wrote:What would the Pacers be looking for in return? Both skill wise and position wise? Who are some targets that fit?



The always tough thing is that we’d need a defensive option at the 4 level hat could protect Sabonis and Warren. As we saw in these playoffs, if Warren is focusing so much on offense, his defense is passable in a team setting, at best. There’s just not that many options. A Jon Isaac fits, but he’s either not available, or he’ll take 1-2 more seasons to rehab and be productive. There’s not really an option in this draft either. It’s just tough to identify a fit with this highly specific roster we’ve built.


Sign Millsap to the MLE then take best offer out there for Turner?
Atlantic https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/17/atlantic-division-mock-off-season/
Central https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/22/central-division-mock-off-season/
Southeast https://thesportscrazy.com/2020/09/11/southeast-division-mock-off-season/
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#13 » by Topofthekey » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:21 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
NYG wrote:What would the Pacers be looking for in return? Both skill wise and position wise? Who are some targets that fit?



The always tough thing is that we’d need a defensive option at the 4 level hat could protect Sabonis and Warren. As we saw in these playoffs, if Warren is focusing so much on offense, his defense is passable in a team setting, at best. There’s just not that many options. A Jon Isaac fits, but he’s either not available, or he’ll take 1-2 more seasons to rehab and be productive. There’s not really an option in this draft either. It’s just tough to identify a fit with this highly specific roster we’ve built.

I would also add, other than the fit issues, it's also tough to find a trade for the Pacers, for two other reasons

The first is that it's unlikely that the Pacers are able to upgrade in terms of talent via trade

You can make a case for each of Myles, Domas, Warren, Vic, and Brogdon being at least top 10-15 at their positions (in the case of Domas and Vic, top 5-10)

It's easy to upgrade from a top 30 player

To upgrade from a top 10-15 player is considerably more difficult

So talent-wise, you're really looking at lateral moves to address fit issues, but as mentioned, it's very tough to find players who can address the fit issues on the team

The second reason is more like a bunch of intangible reasons

Vic is the ticket seller, and he is still rehabbing, so Pacers are unlikely to get fair value for him, at least not what the Pacers would consider worthwhile

Domas is the team's breakout star, and Brogdon is the franchise's biggest FA signing, so trading either of them, especially this soon, seems unlikely

Myles is a great teammate who has so far done anything the team asked of him, so "rewarding" him by trading him sends the wrong message to the rest of the roster

That leaves us with Warren. He's played hard since joining the team, so again, "rewarding" him by trading him seems like a bad PR move. Besides, he's on such a cheap contract that it's unlikely Pacers will be able to get back another player of similar talent level at that type of salary

There's just no easy or obvious trade for the Pacers right now
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#14 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:30 pm

NYG wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
NYG wrote:What would the Pacers be looking for in return? Both skill wise and position wise? Who are some targets that fit?



The always tough thing is that we’d need a defensive option at the 4 level hat could protect Sabonis and Warren. As we saw in these playoffs, if Warren is focusing so much on offense, his defense is passable in a team setting, at best. There’s just not that many options. A Jon Isaac fits, but he’s either not available, or he’ll take 1-2 more seasons to rehab and be productive. There’s not really an option in this draft either. It’s just tough to identify a fit with this highly specific roster we’ve built.


Sign Millsap to the MLE then take best offer out there for Turner?


Paul's already 35 and 14 seasons into his career. Is he going to keep up with the Duncan Robinson's/Giannis on the perimeter like he'd have to as our 4?
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#15 » by pacers33granger » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:08 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Paul's already 35 and 14 seasons into his career. Is he going to keep up with the Duncan Robinson's/Giannis on the perimeter like he'd have to as our 4?


While I agree, what 4 do we have that can do that? I suppose we did play Justin Holiday there some times, but it was primarily Myles and Jakarr, neither of which can guard those guys on the perimeter.

I'd say our best option if we trade Myles and need another PF would be Jerami Grant, but I doubt the MLE does it and I have no faith that we'd be able to use him effectively on offense.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#16 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:31 pm

I agree its tough to find a sensible Myles trade.

I'd do something that returned Jaylan Brown. I think two wings (Warren and Brown) with the ability to guard 4's can work.
Myles for Draymon Green?
Myles for a placeholder 4/5 type big that also returned a pick into the 4-7 range of this year's draft?

Not sure I see many other possibilities.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#17 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:08 pm

8305 wrote:I agree its tough to find a sensible Myles trade.

I'd do something that returned Jaylan Brown. I think two wings (Warren and Brown) with the ability to guard 4's can work.
Myles for Draymon Green?
Myles for a placeholder 4/5 type big that also returned a pick into the 4-7 range of this year's draft?

Not sure I see many other possibilities.


I don’t think Warren can guard 4’s long term realistically. I like it as a change of pace during bench minutes and situationally, but it’s not stable long term, to me. I also think putting Brown on 4’s long term really negates his defensive strengths.

As for the draft, it’s real tough. There’s not really any 4’s in the draft at all, other than Toppin, and unless we get a REALLY great, top notch, perimeter defense at the 1-3, I think Sabonis/Toppin as a front court would just hemorrhage points. Wiseman and Okongwu both project as 5’s, so is there long term matches with Sabonis?

As for Draymond? Well, I was thinking of this the other night. I don’t love his new contract extension, but I do think a tough nosed “a-hole” type player would help a ton, and while not a rim protector, he would be a defensive match with Sabonis, though offensively he’d be tough to fit with Sabonis. Would we be willing to include Warren and try and get back the 2 as well? A move like this would make us older and more expensive though, so it’s a tough step to make as it heads you down a path where you start giving up long term trade pieces that you could rebuild with, as I don’t know that Dray would have much trade value elsewhere.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#18 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:24 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:I agree its tough to find a sensible Myles trade.

I'd do something that returned Jaylan Brown. I think two wings (Warren and Brown) with the ability to guard 4's can work.
Myles for Draymon Green?
Myles for a placeholder 4/5 type big that also returned a pick into the 4-7 range of this year's draft?

Not sure I see many other possibilities.


I don’t think Warren can guard 4’s long term realistically. I like it as a change of pace during bench minutes and situationally, but it’s not stable long term, to me. I also think putting Brown on 4’s long term really negates his defensive strengths.

As for the draft, it’s real tough. There’s not really any 4’s in the draft at all, other than Toppin, and unless we get a REALLY great, top notch, perimeter defense at the 1-3, I think Sabonis/Toppin as a front court would just hemorrhage points. Wiseman and Okongwu both project as 5’s, so is there long term matches with Sabonis?

As for Draymond? Well, I was thinking of this the other night. I don’t love his new contract extension, but I do think a tough nosed “a-hole” type player would help a ton, and while not a rim protector, he would be a defensive match with Sabonis, though offensively he’d be tough to fit with Sabonis. Would we be willing to include Warren and try and get back the 2 as well? A move like this would make us older and more expensive though, so it’s a tough step to make as it heads you down a path where you start giving up long term trade pieces that you could rebuild with, as I don’t know that Dray would have much trade value elsewhere.


Watching TJ in the Bubble and considering his contract he's almost untradable for me. I agree Dray isn't perfect but if we could get his shooting up to Thad Young level? Maybe all his other strengths make it worthwhile. If Goga is as good as everyone said last summer he has to begin to get minutes and that won't happen if you are working both Myles and Domas in.
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#19 » by Topofthekey » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:28 pm

8305 wrote:I agree its tough to find a sensible Myles trade.

I'd do something that returned Jaylan Brown. I think two wings (Warren and Brown) with the ability to guard 4's can work.
Myles for Draymon Green?
Myles for a placeholder 4/5 type big that also returned a pick into the 4-7 range of this year's draft?

Not sure I see many other possibilities.

I still think the best approach is to make a change to the coaching staff, instead of trading Myles
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Re: Is it time to consider trading Myles Turner? 

Post#20 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:40 pm

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:I agree its tough to find a sensible Myles trade.

I'd do something that returned Jaylan Brown. I think two wings (Warren and Brown) with the ability to guard 4's can work.
Myles for Draymon Green?
Myles for a placeholder 4/5 type big that also returned a pick into the 4-7 range of this year's draft?

Not sure I see many other possibilities.


I don’t think Warren can guard 4’s long term realistically. I like it as a change of pace during bench minutes and situationally, but it’s not stable long term, to me. I also think putting Brown on 4’s long term really negates his defensive strengths.

As for the draft, it’s real tough. There’s not really any 4’s in the draft at all, other than Toppin, and unless we get a REALLY great, top notch, perimeter defense at the 1-3, I think Sabonis/Toppin as a front court would just hemorrhage points. Wiseman and Okongwu both project as 5’s, so is there long term matches with Sabonis?

As for Draymond? Well, I was thinking of this the other night. I don’t love his new contract extension, but I do think a tough nosed “a-hole” type player would help a ton, and while not a rim protector, he would be a defensive match with Sabonis, though offensively he’d be tough to fit with Sabonis. Would we be willing to include Warren and try and get back the 2 as well? A move like this would make us older and more expensive though, so it’s a tough step to make as it heads you down a path where you start giving up long term trade pieces that you could rebuild with, as I don’t know that Dray would have much trade value elsewhere.


Watching TJ in the Bubble and considering his contract he's almost untradable for me. I agree Dray isn't perfect but if we could get his shooting up to Thad Young level? Maybe all his other strengths make it worthwhile. If Goga is as good as everyone said last summer he has to begin to get minutes and that won't happen if you are working both Myles and Domas in.


Courtney Cooper has a great article today at Pacers Cornrows about Warren in the bubble. He definitely was great, but how much of it was when he played up against teams that had nothing on the line and simply weren’t making adjustments. :dontknow: he def improves his shot selection so a lot more 3’s instead of a foot inside the line and things like that, but his defense definitely suffers for his offense. The contract is super valuable though.

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