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It is time...

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Re: It is time... 

Post#21 » by jofanitres » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:23 am

Our bench against Heat was very soft.
Aaron has a good shot from deep and didn't use that. Stay over trade
Doug... I mean it's a shooter not a scorer so.. he has some nights of a proficient shooting and some nights don't and very weak defender. I prefer Justin over Doug. So Doug it's available to trade, he's have value 3's guy have more value right now in nba modern game.
Jakar was the only guy who was outstanding, anyone thought how good he became on the series, replacing Myles. His value increase, so can be useful on a trade.
McConnel during the whole year was a nice backup pg and 76ers missing him more than they think, but he should be able to make more shots from deep to be more useful against teams like miami.
Goga we kinda have to wait, but I felt that he in this series could have played more minutes.
Sumner, Alize and Leaf for one side I get it, they need to be more consistents and they weren't prepared for this battle.

It's the same recipe every year... We have always a good team, are the underdog of East and HEALTHY we are a trouble for the opponents (making us contenders) but we are missing healthy too much.
It's the problem of a small market, we cannot have the resources from others franchises.

But guys, until now I didn't hear the LANCE STEPHENSON comeback from you.
I think for the fans' and team's confidence would probably a good move.


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Re: It is time... 

Post#22 » by DayofMourning » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:37 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I genuinely think that we won't shop him. With Covid, he's the chance at one of the biggest ticket sellers we could have. Build some advertising around him re-strengthening that quad, and getting right, and the business is just too much to overlook for trading him for role players, or unknown picks, etc. As we saw, he can have some great explosiveness back, but it really seemed like he's still working back on second jumps, and off leg jumps, and after long-runs, he just loses the strength in his legs to get up the long shots he wants to succeed at. He's talked about how atrophied his leg was when he first got the bandages off, and how it's still only 70%ish...well, now he's gotta prove that's what it is. Not just for us in Indy, but first and foremost if he wants to max out his contract like he's talked about.


I can understand that.

From what I've read, his offseason hub is Miami, and he'd like to be closer to all of it. There's also some friendships in the org that he's made. It seems that he'd really like to be in Miami.

Do you think Indy will pay him a big contract? As a Heat fan, I wouldn't want to max him out, but an average of $20 million a year would be palatable.



It’s been reported that Indy has a standing max extension offer if he were to resign before free agency, and that they would be willing to offer a max salary if he waits to free agency. $20m is way less than he’s eligible for now, and he wants to maximize his income. Oladipo on $20m would be possibly the best value contract in the NBA in years.

As for Miami, he doesn’t actually own a place there, I believe. He stays with his trainer when he rehabs there, but still has his home in Orlando. He’s close with Wade, but he also has a ton of close friendships from his time at IU up in Indiana too.


Oh yeah, if he's going to get a max contract, you guys are definitely hanging on to him. I don't see him as that type of player, but that's just me.

I thought I had read elsewhere that Indy was known for being tight with money. Paying Oladipo the max would definitely squash that theory.

Anyways, thanks for the info. Get healthy. See you next year.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#23 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:44 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
I can understand that.

From what I've read, his offseason hub is Miami, and he'd like to be closer to all of it. There's also some friendships in the org that he's made. It seems that he'd really like to be in Miami.

Do you think Indy will pay him a big contract? As a Heat fan, I wouldn't want to max him out, but an average of $20 million a year would be palatable.



It’s been reported that Indy has a standing max extension offer if he were to resign before free agency, and that they would be willing to offer a max salary if he waits to free agency. $20m is way less than he’s eligible for now, and he wants to maximize his income. Oladipo on $20m would be possibly the best value contract in the NBA in years.

As for Miami, he doesn’t actually own a place there, I believe. He stays with his trainer when he rehabs there, but still has his home in Orlando. He’s close with Wade, but he also has a ton of close friendships from his time at IU up in Indiana too.


Oh yeah, if he's going to get a max contract, you guys are definitely hanging on to him. I don't see him as that type of player, but that's just me.

I thought I had read elsewhere that Indy was known for being tight with money. Paying Oladipo the max would definitely squash that theory.

Anyways, thanks for the info. Get healthy. See you next year.


We don’t plan on paying the luxury tax, but we’ve budgeted the last couple years so that we could afford to pay Oladipo his market rate and stay under the tax. So, cheap? Yes. Wastefully cheap? No. And even if we don’t pay it to him, someone will, do a below market rate of $20m in Miami just isn’t possible or likely. Miami’s rumors of interest are in knowing they would have to max him too.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#24 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:17 pm

If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#25 » by DayofMourning » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:05 pm

8305 wrote:If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.


I agree on the first portion. The Pacers could pay that to Vic if they really have hope that, at 30, he'll overcome his injuries, and produce at a league elite level. In my opinion, that's an unrealistic expectation. You don't want to supermax a guy like Oladipo, and handcuff your team building options moving forward.

As for the second part, one could say that a 20 year old Herro outperformed Oladipo, on an individual level, in this past series. I don't think anybody in the Heat org is thinking about letting him go anytime soon. He's proven, in one year, that he performs in big moments.

In the end, Victor should shoot for the best contract he can get, it's a life changing moment getting the most he can, on what is likely going to be his last contract. If Indy is committed to building around him to win a chip, then that might just work out for him. I compared his expected contributions on the Heat forum to Goran Dragic. We've got Goran at around $18 mil/year. My thoughts were that Dipo would get somewhere near that, maybe a little more due to being a bit younger.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#26 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:57 pm

8305 wrote:If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.



We legally cannot give him a true full max before the season begins. Extension rules allow only a 20% Raise on the players salary. Hitting free agency at his terms of service, Oladipo would be eligible for a contract that starts up to 30% of the salary cap.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#27 » by Pacercoltboiler » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:41 pm

I can't think of any stars that would be worth the capitol given up, but draft picks or a guy like Hachimura should be doable. Some cheap options like Josh Hart or Carson Edwards could be interesting. Marcus Smart?
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Re: It is time... 

Post#28 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:17 pm

Pacercoltboiler wrote:I can't think of any stars that would be worth the capitol given up, but draft picks or a guy like Hachimura should be doable. Some cheap options like Josh Hart or Carson Edwards could be interesting. Marcus Smart?


Hart and Edwards are attainable, but I think they'd realistically be a 3rd, or maybe even 4th string SG here behind Oladipo, Aaron Holiday, and Jeremy Lamb. Smart would always be a great addition, but I'm not sure what we could offer Boston that they would do. Ainge has a history of not being very realistic in trades, and only making deals where he thinks he can take a team behind the woodshed.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#29 » by Wizop » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm

I want to see our current guys play with new coaches before I make big changes. I give them to the midseason trading deadline to show they belong.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#30 » by Pacercoltboiler » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:34 pm

I see the current team as the following: We have three huge strengths. Scoring Point guards(Brogden, Holiday, and McConnell), shot blocking centers in Myles and Goga, and a great small ball 4 in Warren. Goga has the look of a gifted shot blocker when he gets minutes to go along with his rebounding and shooting. What to do with Sabonis and the wings seems to be the question. Sabonis might be our best player, but we'd lose our shot blocking with him on the floor. Lamb is coming back from an injury, and Oladipo is a dribble heavy iso player with good not great defense. Not all the pieces fit.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#31 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:19 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
8305 wrote:If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.


I agree on the first portion. The Pacers could pay that to Vic if they really have hope that, at 30, he'll overcome his injuries, and produce at a league elite level. In my opinion, that's an unrealistic expectation. You don't want to supermax a guy like Oladipo, and handcuff your team building options moving forward.

As for the second part, one could say that a 20 year old Herro outperformed Oladipo, on an individual level, in this past series. I don't think anybody in the Heat org is thinking about letting him go anytime soon. He's proven, in one year, that he performs in big moments.

In the end, Victor should shoot for the best contract he can get, it's a life changing moment getting the most he can, on what is likely going to be his last contract. If Indy is committed to building around him to win a chip, then that might just work out for him. I compared his expected contributions on the Heat forum to Goran Dragic. We've got Goran at around $18 mil/year. My thoughts were that Dipo would get somewhere near that, maybe a little more due to being a bit younger.


Yeah, you've got to be thinking Bam and Herro are the pieces you will build around for the next 10 years. I'm with you on the likely compensation for Vic. I'm not sure what we have looking at a less athletic Vic. He's not a pg, not a guy you want launching 10 3's a game either. Defensive stopper/slasher?
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Re: It is time... 

Post#32 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:26 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.



We legally cannot give him a true full max before the season begins. Extension rules allow only a 20% Raise on the players salary. Hitting free agency at his terms of service, Oladipo would be eligible for a contract that starts up to 30% of the salary cap.


So am I right that a 20% raise would be about 24-25 mil/yr? That would be crazy for the guy I've been watching too. What is Vic's game minus the elite athletisism? Not a pg, not an exceptional 3 pt shooter, no longer a great finisher. It would take a serious mind set change but I think he could still be an elite defender.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#33 » by DayofMourning » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:56 pm

8305 wrote:Yeah, you've got to be thinking Bam and Herro are the pieces you will build around for the next 10 years. I'm with you on the likely compensation for Vic. I'm not sure what we have looking at a less athletic Vic. He's not a pg, not a guy you want launching 10 3's a game either. Defensive stopper/slasher?


Agree again. He's a solid player. Can score at a decent rate for you, and defend the ball well. He's a good player. I've never seen him as a max guy. I think twenty million per, based on his track record is a very, very good deal for him.

Once the rumor mill started a month or so ago, we've had a good amount of convo about adding him on the Heat forum. I'd guess to say that the majority would not be interested in adding him, but it's near a 50/50 split. Everyone is on board the Giannis train, and any contracts given would have to account for the space needed to give him as much as we could. Therefore, you have to slot in a secondary free agent into the remaining room. Some of the conversation has revolved around trading for him, maybe even this offseason, to have a bird in hand if you will.

My question is, do you think your org would trade him, or risk losing him for nothing?
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Re: It is time... 

Post#34 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:03 pm

Pacercoltboiler wrote:I see the current team as the following: We have three huge strengths. Scoring Point guards(Brogden, Holiday, and McConnell), shot blocking centers in Myles and Goga, and a great small ball 4 in Warren. Goga has the look of a gifted shot blocker when he gets minutes to go along with his rebounding and shooting. What to do with Sabonis and the wings seems to be the question. Sabonis might be our best player, but we'd lose our shot blocking with him on the floor. Lamb is coming back from an injury, and Oladipo is a dribble heavy iso player with good not great defense. Not all the pieces fit.


Oladipo made the All Defense team as a guard. He’s a pretty great defensive player.

I’d also not yet commit to calling Warren a great small ball 4 since he was only great in a couple games where the other teams clearly had nothing on the line and made absolutely no attempts to guard him or make game changes. There’s hope there, but nothing proven.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#35 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:08 pm

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:If the Pacers gave the Vic we saw in the Playoffs and prior this year a max contract that contract would jump to the worst contract in the league. If the Pacers do that before seeing him next season they're nuts.

Off his playoff performance i can't see anyone giving the Pacers the kind of value they would need to get to justify trading him now. That said, if Miami were to make an offer that included Tyler Herro I'd think the Pacers would have to jump on it.



We legally cannot give him a true full max before the season begins. Extension rules allow only a 20% Raise on the players salary. Hitting free agency at his terms of service, Oladipo would be eligible for a contract that starts up to 30% of the salary cap.


So am I right that a 20% raise would be about 24-25 mil/yr? That would be crazy for the guy I've been watching too. What is Vic's game minus the elite athletisism? Not a pg, not an exceptional 3 pt shooter, no longer a great finisher. It would take a serious mind set change but I think he could still be an elite defender.



It would be $24-25m, which would be about 22% of the cap. He would be the 47th highest paid player. He would be paid about the same as Harrison Barnes.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#36 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:12 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
8305 wrote:Yeah, you've got to be thinking Bam and Herro are the pieces you will build around for the next 10 years. I'm with you on the likely compensation for Vic. I'm not sure what we have looking at a less athletic Vic. He's not a pg, not a guy you want launching 10 3's a game either. Defensive stopper/slasher?


Agree again. He's a solid player. Can score at a decent rate for you, and defend the ball well. He's a good player. I've never seen him as a max guy. I think twenty million per, based on his track record is a very, very good deal for him.

Once the rumor mill started a month or so ago, we've had a good amount of convo about adding him on the Heat forum. I'd guess to say that the majority would not be interested in adding him, but it's near a 50/50 split. Everyone is on board the Giannis train, and any contracts given would have to account for the space needed to give him as much as we could. Therefore, you have to slot in a secondary free agent into the remaining room. Some of the conversation has revolved around trading for him, maybe even this offseason, to have a bird in hand if you will.

My question is, do you think your org would trade him, or risk losing him for nothing?


That's the million $$ question. He's the reigning face of the franchise. Gotta think his value right now is pretty low but, it would be a public relations disaster to give him away. I get Herro and Bam untouchable. Olyntic is crazy redundant. The only others I can think of are Robinson and Nunn. Not sure the Pacers could sell that.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#37 » by 8305 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:17 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

We legally cannot give him a true full max before the season begins. Extension rules allow only a 20% Raise on the players salary. Hitting free agency at his terms of service, Oladipo would be eligible for a contract that starts up to 30% of the salary cap.


So am I right that a 20% raise would be about 24-25 mil/yr? That would be crazy for the guy I've been watching too. What is Vic's game minus the elite athletisism? Not a pg, not an exceptional 3 pt shooter, no longer a great finisher. It would take a serious mind set change but I think he could still be an elite defender.



It would be $24-25m, which would be about 22% of the cap. He would be the 47th highest paid player. He would be paid about the same as Harrison Barnes.


Harrison Barnes is a bad contract. And if Vic isn't an elite athlete he's not the 47th best player in the league. What role would the guy we've been watching play on a contender and what does a team typically aim to pay for that role?
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Re: It is time... 

Post#38 » by DayofMourning » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:19 pm

8305 wrote:That's the million $$ question. He's the reigning face of the franchise. Gotta think his value right now is pretty low but, it would be a public relations disaster to give him away. I get Herro and Bam untouchable. Olyntic is crazy redundant. The only others I can think of are Robinson and Nunn. Not sure the Pacers could sell that.


Yep. I think Robinson is off the table. So that leaves Nunn. :lol:

My thoughts were that the best package we could offer would be Iggy, Nunn, and our first round pick (draft night). That's literally the best package we can offer. Every other desirable player we have is pretty much a core piece, which you can't move, especially if your plan is 2021 anyways, when Dipo will be a free agent.

The only way things could happen would be if Oladipo said he's moving on, and to Miami. In which case, Indy could make a deal to recoup value. No other team would touch him if they believed he wouldn't resign.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#39 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:22 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
8305 wrote:That's the million $$ question. He's the reigning face of the franchise. Gotta think his value right now is pretty low but, it would be a public relations disaster to give him away. I get Herro and Bam untouchable. Olyntic is crazy redundant. The only others I can think of are Robinson and Nunn. Not sure the Pacers could sell that.


Yep. I think Robinson is off the table. So that leaves Nunn. :lol:

My thoughts were that the best package we could offer would be Iggy, Nunn, and our first round pick (draft night). That's literally the best package we can offer. Every other desirable player we have is pretty much a core piece, which you can't move, especially if your plan is 2021 anyways, when Dipo will be a free agent.

The only way things could happen would be if Oladipo said he's moving on, and to Miami. In which case, Indy could make a deal to recoup value. No other team would touch him if they believed he wouldn't resign.



Nope. I think about 18-20 teams around the league would beat that offer with their first offer and any final offers would go up from there.

PG said he wanted to be in LA and we didn’t send him there. Artest listed places he wanted to go, and we didn’t send him there. JO listed places and we didn’t send him there. We got the best offer we could receive.

And no matter how you feel about the guy, Oladipo isn’t signing for $20m.
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Re: It is time... 

Post#40 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:25 pm

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
So am I right that a 20% raise would be about 24-25 mil/yr? That would be crazy for the guy I've been watching too. What is Vic's game minus the elite athletisism? Not a pg, not an exceptional 3 pt shooter, no longer a great finisher. It would take a serious mind set change but I think he could still be an elite defender.



It would be $24-25m, which would be about 22% of the cap. He would be the 47th highest paid player. He would be paid about the same as Harrison Barnes.


Harrison Barnes is a bad contract. And if Vic isn't an elite athlete he's not the 47th best player in the league. What role would the guy we've been watching play on a contender and what does a team typically aim to pay for that role?


If you think that Oladipo’s leg is 100% of what it will ever be and he’ll not gain anything back, you may be right. But even then, in few agency, he’s likely still a $20m per year player as is right now. That’s the market.

If you think his quad was truly atrophied a couple months ago when he got his cast/brace off and that he’s still working that leg strength back to where it was, then he’s got a long way to go to keep improving, and most of the issues we saw would be improved upon by just that.

It’s a tough situation, and I’m not 100% on the fence either way. I’m just the guy straddling the fence who’s saying “you’re upset now, but be realistic and honest and think through your moves, or else you’ll have Andrew Wiggins clogging your cap and killing your team for another 3 years before you realize it”.

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