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Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat)

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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#41 » by Topofthekey » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:31 pm

Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:Sounds like the players may have been a major factor in this decision.


reporters are saying exit interviews hadn't started when decision was made suggesting players' opinions were not an issue. I'm sticking with my guess that something happened in a meeting between Nate and Kevin until someone comes up with inside information.

EDIT the Star is saying 4 players spoke up. also saying Pacers want to modernize and make more in game adjustments. switching more on defense was mentioned.

Wow, interesting

It seems to me that most Pacers on the roster are quite mild mannered, relatively speaking

Something must have gone really wrong for four of them to feel the need to speak up
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#42 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:48 pm

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/08/26/insider-firing-nate-mcmillan-means-pacers-attempting-modernize/3441766001/

Here's the article Wizop references:

And Brogdon, league sources with direct knowledge of the situation tell IndyStar, was the most outspoken and unhappy player among a core group of four with an isolation-heavy offense that couldn’t win a game in a 4 vs. 5 matchup for the second year in a row.


McMillan proved inflexible, unwilling to do things anyway other than his way, and it cost him:

>> “Modernize” the offense: This means taking better advantage of 3-point shooters such as Doug McDermott, free agent Justin Holiday (should he remain), Victor Oladipo, Myles Turner, Brogdon, Aaron Holiday and T.J. Warren. They ranked last in the league in attempts during the regular season. They don't want the isolation plays that led to contested shots.


>> Adjusting on defense: As good as they've been, Justin Holiday was asked about the guards having to expend so much energy chasing shooters such as Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and Goran Dragic around screens instead of switching to stop the looks. The Heat cooked them from the arc and the Pacers’ guards were all gassed, especially Oladipo, on the other end because of the strategy. The Pacers changed this by Game 4 but it was too late.


What this means going forward for Oladipo is unclear, but the Pacers are expected to be aggressive in the offseason in redesigning themselves with how they look and how they play.

Though they've tried to work out a deal with Oladipo on an extension, everything appears to be on the table. Exit meetings with players aren't complete.

No decision has been made on what will happen with McMillan's assistants Dan Burke, Popeye Jones and Bill Bayno.



I would imagine that, as in the past, only Burke would be a consideration to stay on. He's been Mr. Pacer on the bench for over 20 years now.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#43 » by 8305 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:22 pm

Sounds like it was the leaders of the team who came forward. Best guess, Brogdan, Vic, J Holiday and maybe McConnell. If your are Pritchard and that group came to you and said a change was needed, he didn't have much choice. Disappointing that Pritchard didn't have a better feel for where his team was.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#44 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:34 pm

That makes Brogdon worth his contract alone. Our leaders should be comfortable saying things like this and it makes you think that he, and others, had said things all season long. Also makes Nate's "we just gotta play our game" quotes all season long that much more frustrating.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#45 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:36 pm

8305 wrote:Sounds like it was the leaders of the team who came forward. Best guess, Brogdan, Vic, J Holiday and maybe McConnell. If your are Pritchard and that group came to you and said a change was needed, he didn't have much choice. Disappointing that Pritchard didn't have a better feel for where his team was.
Wouldn't be shocked if Myles was one of the four.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#46 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:14 pm

8305 wrote:Sounds like it was the leaders of the team who came forward. Best guess, Brogdan, Vic, J Holiday and maybe McConnell. If your are Pritchard and that group came to you and said a change was needed, he didn't have much choice. Disappointing that Pritchard didn't have a better feel for where his team was.


Click through the article. It mentions that Brogdon was the first to congratulate Nate for his extension. But, what happened after that is what caused him to speak up.

As for Pritchard, he's always seemed to take pride, and the players have agreed, that he's willing to truly listen to the players. Look at the year that we were rumored in moves, but Pritchard had Collison, Thad, and Vic come in and ask for the chance to play it out, and he backed away from the phones because of it. It sounds like things like that are what convinced Justin Holiday to take less money to sign with us instead of signing in Chicago (a team that had already traded him away twice in his career).
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#47 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:26 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
8305 wrote:Sounds like it was the leaders of the team who came forward. Best guess, Brogdan, Vic, J Holiday and maybe McConnell. If your are Pritchard and that group came to you and said a change was needed, he didn't have much choice. Disappointing that Pritchard didn't have a better feel for where his team was.
Wouldn't be shocked if Myles was one of the four.


As long as Pritchard's office isn't located in the paint. We all know he wouldn't go there.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#48 » by Tom White » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:28 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:As long as Pritchard's office isn't located in the paint. We all know he wouldn't go there.


OK, now THAT'S funny.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#49 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Tom White wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:As long as Pritchard's office isn't located in the paint. We all know he wouldn't go there.


OK, now THAT'S funny.


Thanks Tom. My wife always says I'm not as funny as I think I am. I'm going to show her this and tell her Tom White from the Pacers board disagrees with you hunny! :lol:
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#50 » by Wizop » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:41 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/08/26/insider-firing-nate-mcmillan-means-pacers-attempting-modernize/3441766001/

Here's the article Wizop references:

>> Adjusting on defense: As good as they've been, Justin Holiday was asked about the guards having to expend so much energy chasing shooters such as Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and Goran Dragic around screens instead of switching to stop the looks. The Heat cooked them from the arc and the Pacers’ guards were all gassed, especially Oladipo, on the other end because of the strategy. The Pacers changed this by Game 4 but it was too late.


I would imagine that, as in the past, only Burke would be a consideration to stay on. He's been Mr. Pacer on the bench for over 20 years now.


unless Nate overruled Burke on switching which I really doubt, I don't think Burke stays. we were stubborn on defense as well as offense. Didn't Quinn say repeatedly that Miami was switching everything and now we read that we switched nothing. getting swept is pretty much the proof in the pudding.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#51 » by boomershadow » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:46 pm

A lot of speculation about this coming from the players, but J. Michael was on youtube suggesting it came down from he owner.

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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#52 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:54 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/08/26/insider-firing-nate-mcmillan-means-pacers-attempting-modernize/3441766001/

Here's the article Wizop references:

>> Adjusting on defense: As good as they've been, Justin Holiday was asked about the guards having to expend so much energy chasing shooters such as Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and Goran Dragic around screens instead of switching to stop the looks. The Heat cooked them from the arc and the Pacers’ guards were all gassed, especially Oladipo, on the other end because of the strategy. The Pacers changed this by Game 4 but it was too late.


I would imagine that, as in the past, only Burke would be a consideration to stay on. He's been Mr. Pacer on the bench for over 20 years now.


unless Nate overruled Burke on switching which I really doubt, I don't think Burke stays. we were stubborn on defense as well as offense. Didn't Quinn say repeatedly that Miami was switching everything and now we read that we switched nothing. getting swept is pretty much the proof in the pudding.


Hard to say. I know Burke coaches up our defense, but it appears that Nate calls all the plays and sets, both ways. If Burke was asked, and refused to make changes, I agree with you. If Burke was coaching the players defensively, but Nate was the open scheming and game planning, then it can't be held against Burke.

I think you're question will determine which way it goes.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#53 » by Pacers_Freak » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:06 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/08/26/insider-firing-nate-mcmillan-means-pacers-attempting-modernize/3441766001/

Here's the article Wizop references:



I would imagine that, as in the past, only Burke would be a consideration to stay on. He's been Mr. Pacer on the bench for over 20 years now.


unless Nate overruled Burke on switching which I really doubt, I don't think Burke stays. we were stubborn on defense as well as offense. Didn't Quinn say repeatedly that Miami was switching everything and now we read that we switched nothing. getting swept is pretty much the proof in the pudding.


Hard to say. I know Burke coaches up our defense, but it appears that Nate calls all the plays and sets, both ways. If Burke was asked, and refused to make changes, I agree with you. If Burke was coaching the players defensively, but Nate was the open scheming and game planning, then it can't be held against Burke.

I think you're question will determine which way it goes.


I know that he has been Mr. Pacer. But if the FO is serious about bringing in a new guy let him bring his own ideas and guys. If they like Burke and want to keep him so be it.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#54 » by Wizop » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:11 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I think you're question will determine which way it goes.


Roster construction and playing time also goes into whether you can switch. for example, JHolla and Sumner and even Doug can switch onto players that Aaron and McConnell can not. we have a lot of guys that can switch onto Richardson or Herro if they are in the game but very few who can switch onto Butler. not that the league has many players who can.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#55 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:24 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
unless Nate overruled Burke on switching which I really doubt, I don't think Burke stays. we were stubborn on defense as well as offense. Didn't Quinn say repeatedly that Miami was switching everything and now we read that we switched nothing. getting swept is pretty much the proof in the pudding.


Hard to say. I know Burke coaches up our defense, but it appears that Nate calls all the plays and sets, both ways. If Burke was asked, and refused to make changes, I agree with you. If Burke was coaching the players defensively, but Nate was the open scheming and game planning, then it can't be held against Burke.

I think you're question will determine which way it goes.


I know that he has been Mr. Pacer. But if the FO is serious about bringing in a new guy let him bring his own ideas and guys. If they like Burke and want to keep him so be it.


We've had open spots on the assistant coaching staff for a couple years now. We could do both, hypothetically, in keeping Burke AND let a guy bring his own ideas and guys.
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#56 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:25 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I think you're question will determine which way it goes.


Roster construction and playing time also goes into whether you can switch. for example, JHolla and Sumner and even Doug can switch onto players that Aaron and McConnell can not. we have a lot of guys that can switch onto Richardson or Herro if they are in the game but very few who can switch onto Butler. not that the league has many players who can.


I get it. We could always roll a 2nd guy to help an Aaron/McConnell if they're back down by Butler, and been ready to rotate around if a Butler passes off.

Just, if the players seem to think that it would work better, or help, maybe its worth trying?
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#57 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:08 pm

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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#58 » by pacers33granger » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:43 pm

boomershadow wrote:A lot of speculation about this coming from the players, but J. Michael was on youtube suggesting it came down from he owner.

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Seems it could have come from a lot of people. Outside of other coaches (who stick up for one another), the media, and fans who don't really watch the Pacers, there's been a lot of criticism for the system. I'm not sure how anyone could watch this last series and come away saying an admirable job was done in the face of adversity and that the team was truly on an upward trajectory.

Herb is getting up there in age and, even with his business portfolio taking a hit, I'm sure he wants to do what he can to win. He gave the go ahead for the Brogdon deal, the extensions for both Myles and Domas, the extension offer to an injured Vic, paying for the luxury of Justin Holiday, etc. I don't know where his budget is at, but it does seem like he's moving away from the only 'safe' moves mindset and the D'Antoni talk would tend to support that (if true).
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#59 » by Topofthekey » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Seems like this must have been brewing for quite a while now

JVG said Nate was in trouble, back at the beginning of the month, so it must have already been brewing since way before that

In this context, the soft extension given to Nate before the playoffs looks like KP's reaction to the mess, casting his lot with Nate, at least at that time. It was probably also KP giving Nate a chance to right things, and him getting the players to buy in one last time

But then the playoffs went very poorly. Nate was given his chance, but he couldn't get it done, so that gave KP the impetus to act decisively and move on from Nate

Interesting how much must have been going on behind the scenes that we weren't aware of
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Re: Pacers FIRE Nate McMillan (YES hot seat) 

Post#60 » by Topofthekey » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:07 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
boomershadow wrote:A lot of speculation about this coming from the players, but J. Michael was on youtube suggesting it came down from he owner.

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Seems it could have come from a lot of people. Outside of other coaches (who stick up for one another), the media, and fans who don't really watch the Pacers, there's been a lot of criticism for the system. I'm not sure how anyone could watch this last series and come away saying an admirable job was done in the face of adversity and that the team was truly on an upward trajectory.

Herb is getting up there in age and, even with his business portfolio taking a hit, I'm sure he wants to do what he can to win. He gave the go ahead for the Brogdon deal, the extensions for both Myles and Domas, the extension offer to an injured Vic, paying for the luxury of Justin Holiday, etc. I don't know where his budget is at, but it does seem like he's moving away from the only 'safe' moves mindset and the D'Antoni talk would tend to support that (if true).

Yes

It's strange how the media, and fans of other teams, constantly praised the Pacers for overperforming, while it actually feels like the opposite

Doug has been consistently underutilized since day 1. Myles has been both underutilized and underdeveloped. Goga looked like he was on the trajectory to suffer the same fate as Leaf. Etc

Even the Myles-Domas pairing took longer than it should have to produce any results, because Nate did his usual "let them figure it out" thing, when a coach should instead be actively guiding the both of them on how to best play off each other

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