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Oladipo Trade Ideas

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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#241 » by Topofthekey » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:04 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Hardens demand is that he ants to be traded to Brooklyn, even if it means Houston gets less. I’m not sure if you’d seen that report. Kawhi wasn’t that. He may have had preferences, but he hadn’t refused to play anywhere in particular.

Realistically, if anyone tries to acquire Harden, it’s merely for arbitrage purposes in hoping that Houston hates Brooklyn for this and would deal him elsewhere for less and that team then traded him to Brooklyn for more.

That's just us talking ourselves out of pulling the trigger for a Harden trade, isn't it

Kawhi had that mysterious injury thing at that time, and also that strange uncle Dennis situation. I feel that Raptors trading for Kawhi at that time is definitely a bigger risk than Pacers (or another team that isn't Nets or 6ers) trading for Harden now


Throw it up on the trade forum and see what you get? :dontknow:

Maybe

I'm not actually pushing for this, because I don't even like Harden as a player

But it's a scenario that makes for an interesting discussion, I think

I'll try to put something together on the trade checker, and see what the trade board feels
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#242 » by Tom White » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:26 pm

Topofthekey wrote:I'm just surprised that now that Harden is available, and Pacers can in theory offer a competitive package for Harden, said Pacers posters aren't talking about this more


The suggestions you make would effectively tear down the roster, and leave the team less competitive than they are currently. Our depth disappears and we would be saddled by his contract to such an extent that rebuilding the roster would be even more difficult. Where is the money going to come from to fill out the roster with the depletions you have suggested?

I just think all these trade ideas are folly.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#243 » by Wizop » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:04 pm

Looks like Harden will get to the Nets. it'll be interesting to see if there are other pieces in play after the deal is done - or while it is in process.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#244 » by Jake0890 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:01 pm

Wizop wrote:Looks like Harden will get to the Nets. it'll be interesting to see if there are other pieces in play after the deal is done - or while it is in process.


Not so fast... there have also been reports that Rockets management have no issue going into the season with Harden and Russ still on the roster.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30338326/sources-houston-rockets-willing-get-uncomfortable-james-harden-russell-westbrook

Russ has no trade value because of his contract, if you believe the reports, and Harden especially has no leverage. James is under contract until 2023 and, given the trade return for Jrue and co., it would take a truly massive package of players and picks to make trading a 35 PPG, MVP level scorer a no-brainer.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#245 » by Pacersike » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:49 am

Westbrook or Porzingis attract my attention when we are moving Oladipo and Turner.
I don't know about you guys, but the moment 2017-18 Oladipo turned back to goofy Oladipo, our ceiling looks significantly limited.
We need some greatness added to Warren, Sabonis, Brogdon. All three very good players, but drafted later and late for good reasons.

Russell and Kristaps have other flaws right now, but they do have exceptional talent. No need to wait either, our 3 are in their primes.
Westbrook being at his side when Stanley got drafted, is a window for opportunity.
We migth have to send Victor and Myles to different teams though :lol: .

Victor to Houston where he gets plenty of time to focus on his singing and Myles to Dallas, very close to his birthplace and a soon to be contender. Karma will take care of honest persons :D .
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#246 » by basketballwacko2 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:54 am

Pacersike wrote:Westbrook or Porzingis attract my attention when we are moving Oladipo and Turner.
I don't know about you guys, but the moment 2017-18 Oladipo turned back to goofy Oladipo, our ceiling looks significantly limited.
We need some greatness added to Warren, Sabonis, Brogdon. All three very good players, but drafted later and late for good reasons.

Russell and Kristaps have other flaws right now, but they do have exceptional talent. No need to wait either, our 3 are in their primes.
Westbrook being at his side when Stanley got drafted, is a window for opportunity.
We migth have to send Victor and Myles to different teams though :lol: .

Victor to Houston where he gets plenty of time to focus on his singing and Myles to Dallas, very close to his birthplace and a soon to be contender. Karma will take care of honest persons :D .



There is no way you can put Westbrook's salary on to our cap. He's getting paid $41 million in 21. He's a great player yes but he sucks up so much of the game that the other guys get left behind unless they are Harden or Durant. I just don't see how you fill out a team with $41 million to one guy, then there's $20m to Brogdon, $18 million to Sabonis, $11 million to warren, that's $90 million to 4 guys.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#247 » by Pacersike » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:04 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:There is no way you can put Westbrook's salary on to our cap. He's getting paid $41 million in 21. He's a great player yes but he sucks up so much of the game that the other guys get left behind unless they are Harden or Durant. I just don't see how you fill out a team with $41 million to one guy, then there's $20m to Brogdon, $18 million to Sabonis, $11 million to warren, that's $90 million to 4 guys.

Houston did it with a $40 M player on their roster, so there definitely is a way.
Ordinary players like McDermott and Lamb barely make a difference for a team, so we can add them to the trade or shed their salary separately and fill the roster with better contracts.

This roster needed Oladipo to become that elite player, without him or without him having a Westbrook like winner mentality, I just don't see us competing with the best teams.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#248 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:24 pm

Pacersike wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:There is no way you can put Westbrook's salary on to our cap. He's getting paid $41 million in 21. He's a great player yes but he sucks up so much of the game that the other guys get left behind unless they are Harden or Durant. I just don't see how you fill out a team with $41 million to one guy, then there's $20m to Brogdon, $18 million to Sabonis, $11 million to warren, that's $90 million to 4 guys.

Houston did it with a $40 M player on their roster, so there definitely is a way.
Ordinary players like McDermott and Lamb barely make a difference for a team, so we can add them to the trade or shed their salary separately and fill the roster with better contracts.

This roster needed Oladipo to become that elite player, without him or without him having a Westbrook like winner mentality, I just don't see us competing with the best teams.


Houston paid a ton of tax over the last decade. We didn’t and likely won’t.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#249 » by 8305 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:51 pm

Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#250 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:07 pm

8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#251 » by boomershadow » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.


I could see doing something like 3yr/63mil

Hayward is already coming off the bench in Boston, and he might definitely be looking for a place where he wouldn't have to do that anymore. But if he is willing to take a bench role in a different environment/culture that's made a longer term commitment to him, it wouldn't be that difficult to make work.

That's gotta be more appealing to him than going to play 43 minutes a game for Thibs lol. Idk if that beats Atlanta's offer.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#252 » by 8305 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:11 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.


I'm thinking Pacers need to move both Oladipo and Turner. And Vic is a harder guy to move than Turner. If you can get a solid guy like Hayward for Vic I think you do that in a heart beat. I'd then gamble the next move (Turner trade) could balance lineups better.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#253 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:12 pm

boomershadow wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.


I could see doing something like 3yr/63mil

Hayward is already coming off the bench in Boston, and he might definitely be looking for a place where he wouldn't have to do that anymore. But if he is willing to take a bench role in a different environment/culture that's made a longer term commitment to him, it wouldn't be that difficult to make work.

That's gotta be more appealing to him than going to play 43 minutes a game for Thibs lol. Idk if that beats Atlanta's offer.


Can’t see him opting out for just 2/29 of new money. Also, Woj reporting he wants a long term deal, so assume it’ll be 4 years. Probably close to 4/100.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#254 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:30 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.

Yes

Having a $25m Hayward coming off the bench is too rich for the team, and benching Warren to make way for him is probably super demotivating for those who are trying to earn a role

Starting both of them just creates all sorts of fit issues

The only way Hayward fits is if:

a) we trade Warren for him, in which case he simply takes Warren's spot on the roster. This isn't ideal, as he's twice as expensive as Warren but the upgrade is only marginal. Also, trading Warren after what he gave the team is still not a good PR move (though not as bad as benching him for Hayward)

b) we trade Domas for him. I can see a frontcourt of Myles-Warren-Hayward working better than Domas-Warren-Hayward. But this is obviously a huge overpay, so it's a no go as well

Barring some major changes, Hayward just doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Pacers
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#255 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:45 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Victor out for a sign and traded Gordon Hayward?


This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.

Yes

Having a $25m Hayward coming off the bench is too rich for the team, and benching Warren to make way for him is probably super demotivating for those who are trying to earn a role

Starting both of them just creates all sorts of fit issues

The only way Hayward fits is if:

a) we trade Warren for him, in which case he simply takes Warren's spot on the roster. This isn't ideal, as he's twice as expensive as Warren but the upgrade is only marginal. Also, trading Warren after what he gave the team is still not a good PR move (though not as bad as benching him for Hayward)

b) we trade Domas for him. I can see a frontcourt of Myles-Warren-Hayward working better than Domas-Warren-Hayward. But this is obviously a huge overpay, so it's a no go as well

Barring some major changes, Hayward just doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Pacers



I could possibly see something around Warren/Lamb/Leaf for Hayward, and clearing some space to keep Justin Holiday. Warren is really good, but he’s also a real quiet guy that apparently was a bit hard to fit into the locker room on a personal level.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#256 » by boomershadow » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:52 pm

For a brief moment, I didn't realize this was a joke.

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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#257 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:20 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
This would leave Brogdon to guard all the small guards in the league like Kemba, Fox, Trae, etc. or we bench either Hayward or Warren, and start Aaron Holiday to fill that role. But it could create a toxic locker room of benching either the big money new acquisition that’s paid the most on the roster, or the guy who has a year here and just absolutely improved his game and earned more responsibility in Warren.

Maybe, but it’s hard to make work.

Yes

Having a $25m Hayward coming off the bench is too rich for the team, and benching Warren to make way for him is probably super demotivating for those who are trying to earn a role

Starting both of them just creates all sorts of fit issues

The only way Hayward fits is if:

a) we trade Warren for him, in which case he simply takes Warren's spot on the roster. This isn't ideal, as he's twice as expensive as Warren but the upgrade is only marginal. Also, trading Warren after what he gave the team is still not a good PR move (though not as bad as benching him for Hayward)

b) we trade Domas for him. I can see a frontcourt of Myles-Warren-Hayward working better than Domas-Warren-Hayward. But this is obviously a huge overpay, so it's a no go as well

Barring some major changes, Hayward just doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Pacers



I could possibly see something around Warren/Lamb/Leaf for Hayward, and clearing some space to keep Justin Holiday. Warren is really good, but he’s also a real quiet guy that apparently was a bit hard to fit into the locker room on a personal level.

That sounds do-able. But the question would be how much incentive do the Celtics need in order to accept that. Ideally, reducing immediate salary from Hayward's $34.1m to Warren and Lamb and Leaf's combined $25m should be enough incentive for them, but that's highly unlikely to be the case. They would likely demand more, and then it starts being an overpay for us
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#258 » by boomershadow » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:31 pm

If it's for Oladipo, I absolutely pull the trigger right away. Otherwise, Idk. It might depend on what the other aspects of the deal are.

I wouldn't love giving Warren for him, and I might be one of the biggest Turner defenders in the entire Pacers fandom lol. Still, the noise around this seems to be continuing.

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I'm higher on this idea than I have been on any potential move I've read about since Rubio. Even if it does take Turner or Warren, but I hope it doesn't.
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#259 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:52 pm

I'd do it if it were for Vic too, if just to move on from the whole drama with Vic (I can't say for certain that it's something that needs moving on from, but I'd rather be safe than sorry)

But the problem with that is the difficulty in trying to fit both Warren and Hayward in

Maybe a second follow up trade sending Warren for a starting SG
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Re: Oladipo Trade Ideas 

Post#260 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:55 pm

Ok, if we do trade Vic for Hayward, I think a decent (and available) replacement for Vic would be Zach Lavine

Yes, I know that his reputation is that he gives up more points than he scores

But his advanced stats tells a more optimistic story

His BPM for '18 is -2.3, which supports the theory that his defense is so bad that he's a nett negative

It improved to 0.8 for '19 though, which is still pretty bad, as he pretty much gives up as many points as he scores

But the interesting thing is, by '20, it has gone up to 2.4, which isn't too bad

For comparison, TJ Warren's BPM went from -0.2 to 1.1 after being traded to us, and we all saw the difference, he actually became good on defense, and was no longer a sieve

However, the more important thing to realize about Lavine is, taken as a whole, his BPM over the last 3 seasons went from -2.3 to 0.8 to 2.4 - it's clearly trending UP

I mean, this could be a fluke, or it could be a sign that he's improving as a player

And since he's quite gettable, maybe we can do something like Warren + Lamb + small incentive for Lavine

That will balance the roster out nicely if we do trade Vic for Hayward

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