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2020-2021 Roster if no Trades

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2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#1 » by Wizop » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:24 pm

    Signed:
    1. Oladipo
    2. Brogdon
    3. Turner
    4. Warren
    5. Lamb
    6. McDermott
    7 Sabonis
    8 McConnell
    9. Bitadze
    10. Leaf
    11. A. Holiday
    12. Sumner

    Free Agents:
    13. J. Holiday
    14. Johnson
    15. Sampson

    Two Ways
    16. Bowen
    17. Mitrou-Long

I'm going to assume that pick 54 in the draft will go to a EuroStash that doesn't need a roster spot or forces out one of our two-ways. I think JHolla has a roster spot if he wants it but there are certainly free agent 4's that could replace him. Lets assume we sign him and there is still money to fill sports 14 and 15 with cheap contracts.

Do you bring back both Alize and Jakaar or choose between them and go shopping for a new PF?
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#2 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:34 pm

Wizop wrote:Signed:
    1. Oladipo
    2. Brogdon
    3. Turner
    4. Warren
    5. Lamb
    6. McDermott
    7 Sabonis
    8 McConnell
    9. Bitadze
    10. Leaf
    11. A. Holiday
    12. Sumner
Free Agents:
[list=]
13. J. Holiday
14. Johnson
15. Sampson[/list]
Two Ways
[list=]
16. Bowen
17. Mitrou-Long[/list]

I'm going to assume that pick 54 in the draft will go to a EuroStash that doesn't need a roster spot or forces out one of our two-ways. I think JHolla has a roster spot if he wants it but there are certainly free agent 4's that could replace him. Lets assume we sign him and there is still money to fill sports 14 and 15 with cheap contracts.

Do you bring back both Alize and Jakaar or choose between them and go shopping for a new PF?


I'll venture to say we may move on from Leaf, McConnell and McDermott. Leaf for obvious reasons. McConnell for bench fit in terms of long-range shooting, the emergence of Aaron and Sumner, and that I think he has value on the market. McDermott because I think he could have sneaky value in the trade market to fill some other role like the backup 4 or lower cost draft picks to help bring back Justin Holiday. As for 2nd rounder, I can't remember the last time we draft stashed a 2nd....Erazem Lorbek? I think we draft someone that gets an exhibit 10 and competes with Alize for a roster spot and may get the other 2 way deal. I could see Bowen get a 2nd 2 way, but I think Naz Mitrou-Long will look for another situation that may present a clearer roster spot to him to ascend to.

As far as free agency, we really have just the MLE and BAE. I think we'd have to use most all of the MLE to keep Justin Holiday, if not every penny of it. Otherwise, it's hard for me to project without knowing who the coach is and what Pritchard actually says to team building in that process.

Great thread idea, though!
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#3 » by Wizop » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:02 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:As for 2nd rounder, I can't remember the last time we draft stashed a 2nd....Erazem Lorbek? I think we draft someone that gets an exhibit 10 and competes with Alize for a roster spot and may get the other 2 way deal. I could see Bowen get a 2nd 2 way, but I think Naz Mitrou-Long will look for another situation that may present a clearer roster spot to him to ascend to.


if we do clear a roster spot or two, I can see Bowen getting a real contract to open up a two-way for a draft pick (or two). I agree that Naz will probably move on.

I think we were unable to move Leaf last year. I'm not sure I'd just cut him though as I still think he can be an up-tempo 5. his big problem now is several years of being a 4 or nothing has broken his confidence. perhaps a new coach can fix that but if it doesn't happen early, his time is probably done.

I know Nate liked Sampson and not Alize but I'm not a Sampson fan. I read something suggesting that even though he's had a real contract, the rules would allow Alize to come back on a two-way.

One purpose of this thread is to throw out names that might fit better. my basic search filter is free agent power forwards who gave us fits. Here's one to get us started: Christian Wood.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#4 » by Wizop » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:10 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I'll venture to say we may move on from Leaf, McConnell and McDermott.


I had to edit the OP. it just didn't want to have more than one "list."

I'm not ready to blame McConnell for the trouble in the bubble (sounds like an Ali fight). I think Sabonis made a huge 2nd unit difference and a more flexible coach would have just played Sumner more or gone to a zone. McConnell won a lot of games for us.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#5 » by Tom White » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:17 pm

MY thoughts on the roster might be affected by the way players were used by Nate (right or wrong usage, I don't know). Anyway, I think Sampson has earned his spot. He may not excel at any one thing, but showed various talents pretty well.

Alize has one talent - Rebounding, But did he ever get a chance to show it when playing against other team's starters?
Our two-way guys never got a chance, so it is hard to judge them. Maybe the fact they didn't get court time syas something about them? Or does it say something about the coach? Again, I don't know. McConnell and McDermott are keepers who may benefit from a style change. I have no faith in Leaf.

We need more rebounding, but whomever gets brought in to provide it needs to have other talents as well. That is where I think Alize falls short.

In short, I could have contributed just as much by not posting, but there it is. HA!
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#6 » by Wizop » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:39 pm

Here is a link to the Ants stats which shed some light on our 3rd units.

https://basketball.realgm.com/dleague/teams/Fort-Wayne-Mad-Ants/3/Stats
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#7 » by pacers33granger » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:17 pm

I think Bowen has a real shot to earn a contract. I'd like Alize and Jakarr back, but doubt we have the spots. It's a shame Nate never gave Alize a real chance to show what he could do, but it seems like his shot was improving which is what's necessary to make him an NBA player.

Maybe we keep it simple and Bowen takes whoever's spot walks of our free agents and we give the players a chance under a new coach. I worry we will just let Justin walk given the financial concerns unless the league puts something in place to help that. For this same reason I think we may be stuck with Leaf. He's clear negative value and I'm not sure anyone takes him into cap space for just a few 2nds.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#8 » by pacers33granger » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:21 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I'll venture to say we may move on from Leaf, McConnell and McDermott.


I had to edit the OP. it just didn't want to have more than one "list."

I'm not ready to blame McConnell for the trouble in the bubble (sounds like an Ali fight). I think Sabonis made a huge 2nd unit difference and a more flexible coach would have just played Sumner more or gone to a zone. McConnell won a lot of games for us.


Agreed. McConnell was the only player other than Domas who knew to take it upon himself to get things moving on offense. Others, like Brogdon and Vic, tried, but that lead to iso-ball. I know he doesn't shoot threes and that's an issue, but I think he'd be excellent in every other way if we end up with D'Antoni.

Doug I could see moving as we could get a decent asset for him and he may command more than we'd be comfortable giving him on the open market.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#9 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:38 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I'll venture to say we may move on from Leaf, McConnell and McDermott.


I had to edit the OP. it just didn't want to have more than one "list."

I'm not ready to blame McConnell for the trouble in the bubble (sounds like an Ali fight). I think Sabonis made a huge 2nd unit difference and a more flexible coach would have just played Sumner more or gone to a zone. McConnell won a lot of games for us.


Agreed. McConnell was the only player other than Domas who knew to take it upon himself to get things moving on offense. Others, like Brogdon and Vic, tried, but that lead to iso-ball. I know he doesn't shoot threes and that's an issue, but I think he'd be excellent in every other way if we end up with D'Antoni.

Doug I could see moving as we could get a decent asset for him and he may command more than we'd be comfortable giving him on the open market.



Sorry if it came off as if I was blaming McConnell for anything, let alone a sweep, other than just his complete inability to stretch the floor and threaten from deep. I absolutely love McConnell and his tempo. But, as we saw in the playoff sweep, his long-range shooting (or lack there-of) allowed the Heat to just completely sag off of him and negated him almost completely in the playoffs to the point that we completely benched him in Game 4. I think he's one of those guys that can win you games during the season, but is very limited in the playoffs, and ultimately, I think that's a spot that we should pull a Spoelstra and play Sumner/AHoliday and see what we have in them, even if it costs us a couple regular season games so that they'll be ready at playoff time. That was what I meant. And again, he had such a great season and is owed so little, that I think we could either net an asset for him, or use him to move a TJ Leaf and maybe still get back a super duper late (or future) 2nd.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#10 » by Wizop » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:07 pm

Playoffs in the bubble eliminated the home court advantage and made seeding much less important. Miami put player development over wins and events played right into their hands. I don't think it'll happen but I think we're seeing the case for neutral location playoffs in big arenas. Sure works in college ball.

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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#11 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:15 pm

Wizop wrote:Playoffs in the bubble eliminated the home court advantage and made seeding much less important. Miami put player development over wins and events played right into their hands. I don't think it'll happen but I think we're seeing the case for neutral location playoffs in big arenas. Sure works in college ball.

Sent from my phone.


They swept us and we were no closer than 9 points in any game. I think we can assume that the lack of home court didn’t lose us the series, nor make it harder for McConnell to shoot from long range. We didn’t have hime court. But neither did they.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#12 » by pacers33granger » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Sorry if it came off as if I was blaming McConnell for anything, let alone a sweep, other than just his complete inability to stretch the floor and threaten from deep. I absolutely love McConnell and his tempo. But, as we saw in the playoff sweep, his long-range shooting (or lack there-of) allowed the Heat to just completely sag off of him and negated him almost completely in the playoffs to the point that we completely benched him in Game 4.


No worries, I didn't get any of that from your post. I get it though, he has an obvious weakness that can be exploited and is the reason his services weren't in high demand last offseason.

I worry about creation if we decide to just run Brogdon/Aaron as the PGs as neither are really PGs. And honestly, I'm more than fine keeping him and letting him be a steadying hand for the regular season. At his price, it's worth it for us. I also don't think we'd get much more than a weak 2nd offered for him anyways and he's a good teammate by all accounts.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#13 » by pacers33granger » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:47 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:Playoffs in the bubble eliminated the home court advantage and made seeding much less important. Miami put player development over wins and events played right into their hands. I don't think it'll happen but I think we're seeing the case for neutral location playoffs in big arenas. Sure works in college ball.

Sent from my phone.


They swept us and we were no closer than 9 points in any game. I think we can assume that the lack of home court didn’t lose us the series, nor make it harder for McConnell to shoot from long range. We didn’t have hime court. But neither did they.


We knew they were the superior team going in given we were without Domas and had all the other stuff going on. But we thought maybe we were kinda close and similar in a lot of ways. Maybe we would've been with Domas. But now it is abundantly clear they were the better team. In hindsight, I'd be shocked if we pulled more than a game with a normal playoff schedule.

The player development Miami did pays dividends every playoffs. It's what has always made the Spurs competitive even with shaky rosters. Unfortunately the downside with Nate's "next man up" mentality was that guys didn't get chances until it was necessary for the most part. We could have used some minutes from end of the bench guys other than Jakarr. But they all just lacked the experience. And the end result is we have no real idea what, if anything, is there with Goga, Sumner, and Alize. We know with Leaf, but it took far too long to figure that out.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#14 » by Wizop » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:00 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:Playoffs in the bubble eliminated the home court advantage and made seeding much less important. Miami put player development over wins and events played right into their hands. I don't think it'll happen but I think we're seeing the case for neutral location playoffs in big arenas. Sure works in college ball.

Sent from my phone.


They swept us and we were no closer than 9 points in any game. I think we can assume that the lack of home court didn’t lose us the series, nor make it harder for McConnell to shoot from long range. We didn’t have hime court. But neither did they.
Miami is showing they were not the 5th best team in the East. What I was trying to say was that the bubble reduced the advantages of being seeded higher. We lost to a better team. Period. If they sacrificed a few regular season wins to bring the young players along, it was a good choice.

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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#15 » by Topofthekey » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:31 am

More than that, I think the Heat is showing what kind of difference coaching can make

On most other teams, Duncan Robinson likely is the type of no-name role player who barely registers on most people's radar. Playing for the Heat/Spoelstra, he's sparking people's imagination that he might be a potential star

Same goes with the rest of their roster
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#16 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 pm

Topofthekey wrote:More than that, I think the Heat is showing what kind of difference coaching can make

On most other teams, Duncan Robinson likely is the type of no-name role player who barely registers on most people's radar. Playing for the Heat/Spoelstra, he's sparking people's imagination that he might be a potential star

Same goes with the rest of their roster



I wouldn’t say he’s a future star. He’s a deadly long range shooter that otherwise has a pretty nondescript game in most every other aspect. Not a good defender. But, they knew how to hide and minimize his weaknesses so that he could just absolutely obliterate on long range shooting.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#17 » by Topofthekey » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:53 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:More than that, I think the Heat is showing what kind of difference coaching can make

On most other teams, Duncan Robinson likely is the type of no-name role player who barely registers on most people's radar. Playing for the Heat/Spoelstra, he's sparking people's imagination that he might be a potential star

Same goes with the rest of their roster


I wouldn’t say he’s a future star. He’s a deadly long range shooter that otherwise has a pretty nondescript game in most every other aspect. Not a good defender. But, they knew how to hide and minimize his weaknesses so that he could just absolutely obliterate on long range shooting.

I don't think he's a future star either

But some Heat posters do

As you said, the Heat is doing a great job at maximizing his effectiveness, while hiding all his flaws
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#18 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:22 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:More than that, I think the Heat is showing what kind of difference coaching can make

On most other teams, Duncan Robinson likely is the type of no-name role player who barely registers on most people's radar. Playing for the Heat/Spoelstra, he's sparking people's imagination that he might be a potential star

Same goes with the rest of their roster


I wouldn’t say he’s a future star. He’s a deadly long range shooter that otherwise has a pretty nondescript game in most every other aspect. Not a good defender. But, they knew how to hide and minimize his weaknesses so that he could just absolutely obliterate on long range shooting.

I don't think he's a future star either

But some Heat posters do

As you said, the Heat is doing a great job at maximizing his effectiveness, while hiding all his flaws

In fairness to them, I haven’t seen that. I’ve seen them rightfully state that his value on court, at his low contract (and eventual low corresponding cap hold in free agency) is worth much more to them than possibly trading him now. I mean, an ultimate offensive threat, that they know how to use, at the minimum salary for multiple years? That’s pretty awesome to have.
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#19 » by Topofthekey » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:58 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I wouldn’t say he’s a future star. He’s a deadly long range shooter that otherwise has a pretty nondescript game in most every other aspect. Not a good defender. But, they knew how to hide and minimize his weaknesses so that he could just absolutely obliterate on long range shooting.

I don't think he's a future star either

But some Heat posters do

As you said, the Heat is doing a great job at maximizing his effectiveness, while hiding all his flaws

In fairness to them, I haven’t seen that. I’ve seen them rightfully state that his value on court, at his low contract (and eventual low corresponding cap hold in free agency) is worth much more to them than possibly trading him now. I mean, an ultimate offensive threat, that they know how to use, at the minimum salary for multiple years? That’s pretty awesome to have.

To be fair you're right, I'm not actually sure that the actual word "star" was used to describe Duncan Robinson

But what's certain is that he's talked about in extremely high regard, together with the rest of their young core (Nunn, Herro)

Not that I'm holding it against them, I'd probably feel the same if I were them

I'm just pointing out the difference good coaching makes

It's enough to turn an otherwise no-name role player into an exciting, highly regarded player
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Re: 2020-2021 Roster if no Trades 

Post#20 » by pacers33granger » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Topofthekey wrote:More than that, I think the Heat is showing what kind of difference coaching can make



Definitely. And I guarantee Nate wouldn't have it in him to bench a guy like Nunn for the playoffs, though tbf most coaches wouldn't either.

I wouldn't discount what Jimmy brings there too. When you're top guy buys in completely and is willing to call out anyone who doesn't, it helps move things a long a lot. Also really helps that they have UD in the background. We've got a lot of good guys, but we lack that type of player leadership right now.

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