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2020 Draft & Free Agency

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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#181 » by Lazlo4D » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:29 pm

So Boston is somewhat over a barrel right now with Hayward opting out, still no capspace, extra FRP's all gone, and they didn't get a big man during the draft.

Hayward controls all of Boston options including just leaving.

Would the Pacers do a S&T for Hayward where they send Boston: Turner & Leaf? Should the Pacers push for more?
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#182 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:30 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:If I recall, basketballwacko2 was a fan:
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Great pick up for the Thunder, we don't really need him but he might be a diamond in the rough or at least one of those guys who gives you something for nothing.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#183 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:32 pm

Stanley looks good at 54, maybe he can become like Lance without the goofy crap!
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#184 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:55 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Wow, no S&T

So, is he going to the Knicks/Hawks?



He has to opt out in order to do a S&T.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#185 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:57 pm

I can’t tell if Agness is reporting mutual interest or just casually remarking based on other reports like Weiss and Begley.

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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#186 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:11 pm

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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#187 » by pacers33granger » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:13 pm

I really still do not see how a Hayward deal works for him, us, and Boston. I may be in the minority, but I have Myles as an overpay, even if Hayward signs a similar deal. So it'd have to be something around Lamb, Doug, Leaf, etc. and why would Boston do that? And this all hinges on Hayward leaving a lot of money on the table. Plus he'd be down the pecking order in Indy too.

It's certainly more feasible with the opt out, but I still see it as very unlikely.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#188 » by Topofthekey » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:25 pm

Myles is definitely a huge overpay

For the Celtics, whoever they are getting in return, at the very least they cut some immediate salary, from the $34.1m on Hayward's last year to whatever it is the new amount is going be
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#189 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:34 pm

pacers33granger wrote:I really still do not see how a Hayward deal works for him, us, and Boston. I may be in the minority, but I have Myles as an overpay, even if Hayward signs a similar deal. So it'd have to be something around Lamb, Doug, Leaf, etc. and why would Boston do that? And this all hinges on Hayward leaving a lot of money on the table. Plus he'd be down the pecking order in Indy too.

It's certainly more feasible with the opt out, but I still see it as very unlikely.



Yeah, I don’t know. I assume it would be something around Myles, just gut feeling, if it were to happen. Otherwise, they’d have no interest in Lamb’s two years and Boston would have no ability to take on a 3 for 1 kind of deal, as they’re already overloaded.

I just have a hunch that we’re going to be involved with this somehow.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#190 » by pacers33granger » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I really still do not see how a Hayward deal works for him, us, and Boston. I may be in the minority, but I have Myles as an overpay, even if Hayward signs a similar deal. So it'd have to be something around Lamb, Doug, Leaf, etc. and why would Boston do that? And this all hinges on Hayward leaving a lot of money on the table. Plus he'd be down the pecking order in Indy too.

It's certainly more feasible with the opt out, but I still see it as very unlikely.



Yeah, I don’t know. I assume it would be something around Myles, just gut feeling, if it were to happen. Otherwise, they’d have no interest in Lamb’s two years and Boston would have no ability to take on a 3 for 1 kind of deal, as they’re already overloaded.


Agreed and I'm just not seeing a deal around Myles working for us. If Hayward is slotted into the starting 4 spot, we've pretty much just given up on defense without having any transcendent offensive players to make up for it. And then we're locked in with the majority of our guys at their ceiling or declining.

If Myles has quietly asked out, whatever, but I'd likely prefer numerous other offers. Unfortunately for Boston the warchest is getting really low at this point, so they don't have much to reasonably add. It'd basically have to be Romeo.

Also not a fan at all of giving Hayward a longterm deal. Better than $35 mil (possibly), but I expect anything over $20 mil to be a neutral contract at best basically off the bat.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#191 » by Tom White » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:07 am

Wizop wrote:
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I feel bad for Alize, especially since he just bought that house for his Mom.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#192 » by pacers33granger » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:13 am

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:
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Sent from my phone.


I feel bad for Alize, especially since he just bought that house for his Mom.


Doesn't mean we won't resign him (though I doubt we do ultimately). His QO was $1.9 mil and we clearly need every penny we can get under the tax to try to make some moves.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#193 » by Wizop » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:08 am

If Stanley and Hammond get two ways and Jakarr and Alize are unsigned, what can we offer Justin?

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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#194 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:20 am

Wizop wrote:If Stanley and Hammond get two ways and Jakarr and Alize are unsigned, what can we offer Justin?

Sent from my phone.


If those two guys get two ways, and we don't sign Jakarr and Alize, we have $5.8m total under the luxury tax to fill 3 roster spots. If we don't fill all 15 roster spots, we can't use the two way guys but for something tiny like 45 days total, combined (as opposed to the expanded access; they're trying to get teams to fill out the roster spots as they're supposed to). So, 2 year vet minimum is $1.62m against the tax, so if we sign 2 vet minimums, we'd then have $2.6m to offer Justin Holiday this year. Go with just 14, and sacrifice the use of the 2 way contract players, and you could offer Justin $4.18m for this year. If you sign Stanley to a real NBA contract (since we drafted him, he'd count less against the tax) his tax number would be $898k. So, 14 total players with Stanley being one, we'd have $4.9m to offer Justin. If we go 15 players deep, Justin would get $3.3m.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#195 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:47 am

Hang on

The luxury tax threshold is at $139m

Pacers have 12 players on contract for 2021, for a total salary of $124m

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/IND.html

Shouldn't that give the team about $15m to fill three remaining roster spots without paying the tax
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#196 » by Wizop » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:57 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:So, 14 total players with Stanley being one, we'd have $4.9m to offer Justin. If we go 15 players deep, Justin would get $3.3m.
I don't see him getting that little even if we sign Stanley to a real contract and let the Ants sign Hammond and don't need 2 ways.

They said that during the draft the price of moving a contract was too high. Since then some trade exemptions have been created but I doubt that has changed anyone's desire for Lamb or Leaf.

The issue remains backup 4. I never thought Justin was the answer there although it was nice that he tried. We do have enough options on the wing without him. I can see bringing Alize back and Jakarr too. Stanley could make 15.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#197 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:02 am

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:If Stanley and Hammond get two ways and Jakarr and Alize are unsigned, what can we offer Justin?

Sent from my phone.


If those two guys get two ways, and we don't sign Jakarr and Alize, we have $5.8m total under the luxury tax to fill 3 roster spots. If we don't fill all 15 roster spots, we can't use the two way guys but for something tiny like 45 days total, combined (as opposed to the expanded access; they're trying to get teams to fill out the roster spots as they're supposed to). So, 2 year vet minimum is $1.62m against the tax, so if we sign 2 vet minimums, we'd then have $2.6m to offer Justin Holiday this year. Go with just 14, and sacrifice the use of the 2 way contract players, and you could offer Justin $4.18m for this year. If you sign Stanley to a real NBA contract (since we drafted him, he'd count less against the tax) his tax number would be $898k. So, 14 total players with Stanley being one, we'd have $4.9m to offer Justin. If we go 15 players deep, Justin would get $3.3m.
I don't see him getting that little even if we sign Stanley to a real contract and let the Ants sign Hammond and don't need 2 ways.

They said that during the draft the price of moving a contract was too high. Since then some trade exemptions have been created but I doubt that has changed anyone's desire for Lamb or Leaf.

The issue remains backup 4. I never thought Justin was the answer there although it was nice that he tried. We do have enough options on the wing without him. I can see bringing Alize back and Jakarr too. Stanley could make 15.

Sent from my phone.


We've seen Utah dump Tony Bradley during the draft for the #38, and since dump Ed Davis on the Knicks for 2 future 2nd round picks. Bradley is better than Leaf, and cheaper than Leaf. Davis has some respect as a vet, even if he's well past his prime. But, in a vacuum, generally, trading someone into cap space is more expensive before free agency starts. Hypothetically, it's cheaper once the music stops and the lights come on, and teams are just looking at the last ways to maximize their cap/tpe space.


My gut instinct, based solely on the reports that we're in the drivers seat with Justin and league wide rumors of a lot of teams having interest in Myles, is that we have a Myles deal lined up somewhere, and a means to clear some additional space to keep Justin is achieved as part of that trade, or other deals, lined up.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#198 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:12 am

Lazlo4D wrote:So Boston is somewhat over a barrel right now with Hayward opting out, still no capspace, extra FRP's all gone, and they didn't get a big man during the draft.

Hayward controls all of Boston options including just leaving.

Would the Pacers do a S&T for Hayward where they send Boston: Turner & Leaf? Should the Pacers push for more?


Sorry, I missed part of this one.

I don't think Boston is over a barrel at all. They used their picks as they wished. Sure, they don't have them available to trade, but they also filled a hole if Hayward walks for nothing. They gained a bunch of space (around $24m) under the tax to use their full non-taxpayer MLE. And even if they use it, they could take back up to $14m in salary in return of a Hayward S&T (up to that full $24m if they don't use the MLE), all while staying under the luxury tax. If the tax line isn't a concern, then they have nearly unlimited options.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#199 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:20 am

Topofthekey wrote:Hang on

The luxury tax threshold is at $139m

Pacers have 12 players on contract for 2021, for a total salary of $124m

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/IND.html

Shouldn't that give the team about $15m to fill three remaining roster spots without paying the tax


Luxury tax is $132.627m. $139m was the projected tax line before this past season started (pre Morey/Taiwan comments and pre-Covid).

Also, Sabonis, Myles, and Warren all hit bonuses last year that will change their cap numbers for next season, that Basketball Reference hasn't listed yet.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#200 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:21 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Hang on

The luxury tax threshold is at $139m

Pacers have 12 players on contract for 2021, for a total salary of $124m

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/IND.html

Shouldn't that give the team about $15m to fill three remaining roster spots without paying the tax


Luxury tax is $132.627m. $139m was the projected tax line before this past season started (pre Morey/Taiwan comments and pre-Covid).

Also, Sabonis, Myles, and Warren all hit bonuses last year that will change their cap numbers for next season, that Basketball Reference hasn't listed yet.


So, with all that in mind, we're heading into this offseason with $5.8m under the tax line, with 12 players under contract.

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