Image

2020 Draft & Free Agency

Moderators: pacers33granger, Jake0890, boomershadow, Grang33r, pacerfan

User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#221 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:47 pm

boomershadow wrote:I can't help but notice that Boston just traded one of their centers.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app



Lot of rumors of them chasing Christian Wood from Detroit.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#222 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 pm

Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#223 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:54 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:It's Begley, so take it with a grain of salt:

Read on Twitter


I'll lose confidence in KP if we send either to Boston though.



With the other reports of negotiations, this implies that Pritchard was just offering Doug/Lamb/Leaf :lol:


If it’s true, that is :wink:

If it's true, then I love it

That's exactly the type of package we should offer for Hayward

Hayward has already opted out anyway. He either signs with Knicks, in which case Celtics get nothing. Or Celtics accept that package, in which case they at least get something

Come on Ainge, don't be stubborn about this, just take the deal!
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#224 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:54 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#225 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:56 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:It's Begley, so take it with a grain of salt:

Read on Twitter


I'll lose confidence in KP if we send either to Boston though.



With the other reports of negotiations, this implies that Pritchard was just offering Doug/Lamb/Leaf :lol:


If it’s true, that is :wink:

If it's true, then I love it

That's exactly the type of package we should offer for Hayward

Hayward has already opted out anyway. He either signs with Knicks, in which case Celtics get nothing. Or Celtics accept that package, in which case they at least get something

Come on Ainge, don't be stubborn about this, just take the deal!


Oh. I mean, they’re not taking that type of deal. Not without a lot of 1sts coming back. Or maybe Aaron or Goga. The extra space under the tax would be more valuable otherwise.
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 13,483
And1: 5,729
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#226 » by pacers33granger » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:58 pm

Again, grain of salt as Washburn writes for the Globe.

Read on Twitter


But that is worrisome.
Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#227 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:59 pm

Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#228 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:12 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps


Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.
SMTBSI
RealGM
Posts: 14,019
And1: 20,969
Joined: Jun 27, 2014
 

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#229 » by SMTBSI » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:24 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps

Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.

Yeah, I don't think either team has enough leverage to win a truly lopsided deal. I don't buy the Knicks as a credible threat here. I think it's between BOS and IND, which means we're going to have to come to an arrangement we can both live with, or it doesn't happen.
Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#230 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:29 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps


Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.

Which is close to what some Celtics posters have annoyingly been pushing for non stop

That's why it would be so, so sweet if the actual trade ended up being Lamb and Doug instead

It's not like we have anything to lose if Hayward ended up signing with Knicks or another team

Celtics lose Hayward for nothing though if he indeed simply signed into cap space with another team

I understand that a package of Lamb and Doug is underwhelming, and Celtics wouldn't want to help us acquire Hayward that cheaply

But if their desire to spite the face by cutting off the nose is stronger than their desire to recoup at least some value, then watching them do just that is also a satisfying win in my books
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#231 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps


Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.

Which is close to what some Celtics posters have annoyingly been pushing for non stop

That's why it would be so, so sweet if the actual trade ended up being Lamb and Doug instead

It's not like we have anything to lose if Hayward ended up signing with Knicks or another team

Celtics lose Hayward for nothing though if he indeed simply signed into cap space with another team

I understand that a package of Lamb and Doug is underwhelming, and Celtics wouldn't want to help us acquire Hayward that cheaply

But if their desire to spite the face by cutting off the nose is stronger than their desire to recoup at least some value, then watching them do just that is also a satisfying win in my books


If I were them, I'd not take Lamb/McDermott back. I'd force Indy to find a place to dump Lamb elsewhere and pay it themselves.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 10,934
And1: 1,813
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#232 » by Wizop » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:40 pm

Love the idea of sending Vic to Knicks or Hawks for picks and signing Hayward directly without sending Boston anything.

Sent from my phone.
Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#233 » by Topofthekey » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:48 pm

The report that Pacers are offering Myles and Doug greatly concerns me though

I hope KP just hangs up the phone everytime Celtics mention Myles Turner
User avatar
Jake0890
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 5,944
And1: 790
Joined: Jul 12, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
   

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#234 » by Jake0890 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 pm

I hate the idea of the Pacers trading for Hayward on any size contract. I have no interest in swapping Warren with Hayward and even less so with swapping Turner for Hayward. How would Hayward move the needle for the Pacers?? We would assuredly lose youth and it's not like we're one Gordon Hayward-sized piece away from contending.

Really don't want to bail the Celtics out of their poor decision signing him in the first place.
User avatar
OnFire
Junior
Posts: 282
And1: 17
Joined: Jul 12, 2006

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#235 » by OnFire » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:00 am

Lazlo4D wrote:Trying to think of an out of the box trade of Oladipo for value by maximizing cap space for this off-season.

The Knicks have a lot of partial guaranteed contracts and could get Oladipo for a bargain while Pacers clear cap space.

Pacers trade: Victor Oladipo, Jeremy Lamb
Knicks trade: 2021 Dallas FRP (Unprotected) along with Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton

Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton all have $1M buyouts, I think, allowing the Pacers to clear $28M from their cap.

That would allow the Pacers to sign FA's, facilitate trades this off-season when no one has cap space and pick extra future FRP's, or deals like TJ Warren last year.

Could this be a way of maximizing value from trading Oladipo now? Is this NBA legal?


With NY already waiving some players mentioned above to create $40M in space, I think this idea of Lazlo4D could be a base for a Hayward acquisition to push thru.

Since I'd rather see Myles stay and with Dipo a hanging cloud over the team, what if we deal Dipo + Leaf to NY for their players like Reggie Bullock + Dennis Smith, Jr + Bradizeikis (2nd Rd. Pick Lithuanian project) + 1 future first/2 SRP?

Doing the math, that would give us room to offer Hayward a deal in the $18M - $25M ($72M - $100/4yrs) range straight up; have NY get value and with still a $20M warchest; and we don't have to deal with Danny Ainge's "oneupmanship" since Hayward is already UFA status.

Just my 2 cents. 8-)
Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#236 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:01 am

Question about how S&Ts work

Does it only work with the Free Agent's original team?

I tried looking this up, but I think it's says S&Ts are when one team signs a player and then immediately trades him elsewhere

Doesn't seem like there's a stipulation that it's only limited to the FA's original team

If that's the case, couldn't we work something out with one of the less popular cap space teams?

Say Hornets

Hayward makes it clear that he has no intention to play for the Hornets

The Hornets sign him anyway and immediately trades him to us for Lamb + Doug + some minor incentives

Hayward gets to play for his team of choice, we get Hayward cheaply, and Hornets get something from their cap space
Topofthekey
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,566
And1: 555
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#237 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:02 am

OnFire wrote:
Lazlo4D wrote:Trying to think of an out of the box trade of Oladipo for value by maximizing cap space for this off-season.

The Knicks have a lot of partial guaranteed contracts and could get Oladipo for a bargain while Pacers clear cap space.

Pacers trade: Victor Oladipo, Jeremy Lamb
Knicks trade: 2021 Dallas FRP (Unprotected) along with Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton

Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton all have $1M buyouts, I think, allowing the Pacers to clear $28M from their cap.

That would allow the Pacers to sign FA's, facilitate trades this off-season when no one has cap space and pick extra future FRP's, or deals like TJ Warren last year.

Could this be a way of maximizing value from trading Oladipo now? Is this NBA legal?


With NY already waiving some players mentioned above to create $40M in space, I think this idea of Lazlo4D could be a base for a Hayward acquisition to push thru.

Since I'd rather see Myles stay and with Dipo a hanging cloud over the team, what if we deal Dipo + Leaf to NY for their players like Reggie Bullock + Dennis Smith, Jr + Bradizeikis (2nd Rd. Pick Lithuanian project) + 1 future first/2 SRP?

Doing the math, that would give us room to offer Hayward a deal in the $18M - $25M ($72M - $100/4yrs) range straight up; have NY get value and with still a $20M warchest; and we don't have to deal with Danny Ainge's "oneupmanship" since Hayward is already UFA status.

Just my 2 cents. 8-)

I can sign off on this
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#238 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:08 am

Topofthekey wrote:The report that Pacers are offering Myles and Doug greatly concerns me though

I hope KP just hangs up the phone everytime Celtics mention Myles Turner


Everything being reported is likely coming out of Boston, so be wary about anything.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#239 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:13 am

OnFire wrote:
Lazlo4D wrote:Trying to think of an out of the box trade of Oladipo for value by maximizing cap space for this off-season.

The Knicks have a lot of partial guaranteed contracts and could get Oladipo for a bargain while Pacers clear cap space.

Pacers trade: Victor Oladipo, Jeremy Lamb
Knicks trade: 2021 Dallas FRP (Unprotected) along with Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton

Taj Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton all have $1M buyouts, I think, allowing the Pacers to clear $28M from their cap.

That would allow the Pacers to sign FA's, facilitate trades this off-season when no one has cap space and pick extra future FRP's, or deals like TJ Warren last year.

Could this be a way of maximizing value from trading Oladipo now? Is this NBA legal?


With NY already waiving some players mentioned above to create $40M in space, I think this idea of Lazlo4D could be a base for a Hayward acquisition to push thru.

Since I'd rather see Myles stay and with Dipo a hanging cloud over the team, what if we deal Dipo + Leaf to NY for their players like Reggie Bullock + Dennis Smith, Jr + Bradizeikis (2nd Rd. Pick Lithuanian project) + 1 future first/2 SRP?

Doing the math, that would give us room to offer Hayward a deal in the $18M - $25M ($72M - $100/4yrs) range straight up; have NY get value and with still a $20M warchest; and we don't have to deal with Danny Ainge's "oneupmanship" since Hayward is already UFA status.

Just my 2 cents. 8-)


We're at about $127m in salary committed. The salary cap is $109m. So, if we trade Dipo/Leaf to NY for Bullock/Smith/Brazdeikis, we'd cut about $14.5m off our salary, and end up $4m over the cap, meaning we could only use the MLE of up to $9m to try and sign Hayward straight up.

In order to offer Hayward a deal starting at $18m straight up, without assistance of Boston sign and trading Hayward, Indy would have to clear about $37m off our salary number straight up, meaning we'd have to trade 2 of Oladipo, Brogdon, Myles, and Sabonis without receiving ANY salary back.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 30,125
And1: 4,853
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#240 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:14 am

Topofthekey wrote:Question about how S&Ts work

Does it only work with the Free Agent's original team?

I tried looking this up, but I think it's says S&Ts are when one team signs a player and then immediately trades him elsewhere

Doesn't seem like there's a stipulation that it's only limited to the FA's original team

If that's the case, couldn't we work something out with one of the less popular cap space teams?

Say Hornets

Hayward makes it clear that he has no intention to play for the Hornets

The Hornets sign him anyway and immediately trades him to us for Lamb + Doug + some minor incentives

Hayward gets to play for his team of choice, we get Hayward cheaply, and Hornets get something from their cap space


A player can only be sign and traded by the team with which they finished the previous season with.

The Hornets could sign Hayward, and then be able to trade him in February this season, around the trade deadline.

Return to Indiana Pacers