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2020 Draft & Free Agency

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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#241 » by Wizop » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:41 am

Topofthekey wrote:Doesn't seem like there's a stipulation that it's only limited to the FA's original team
Isn't there a 90 day waiting period if it's a new team?
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#242 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:47 am

I guess there is
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#243 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:56 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Let's see how it plays out

I'm perfectly happy if the end result is Hayward signing with Knicks or elsewhere

But the most enjoyable outcome would be to see KP successfully acquire Hayward for scraps


Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.

Which is close to what some Celtics posters have annoyingly been pushing for non stop

That's why it would be so, so sweet if the actual trade ended up being Lamb and Doug instead

It's not like we have anything to lose if Hayward ended up signing with Knicks or another team

Celtics lose Hayward for nothing though if he indeed simply signed into cap space with another team

I understand that a package of Lamb and Doug is underwhelming, and Celtics wouldn't want to help us acquire Hayward that cheaply

But if their desire to spite the face by cutting off the nose is stronger than their desire to recoup at least some value, then watching them do just that is also a satisfying win in my books


I suggested Lamb and Doug a couple days ago and got negative feedback.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#244 » by Jake0890 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:59 am

Read on Twitter


Good to hear.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#245 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:02 am

If Hayward really wants to play in Indiana he needs to give the team a home town discount. No more than $18 million with raises for 4 years. I would play hard ball with the him and the Celtics if they want anything back for him it's Doug and Lamb and maybe a #1 in 23 with lottery protections and becomes 2 2nds after 3 years.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#246 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:03 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Sure, but that's the equivalent of Ainge getting Turner/Oladipo/AHoliday for Hayward, too.

Which is close to what some Celtics posters have annoyingly been pushing for non stop

That's why it would be so, so sweet if the actual trade ended up being Lamb and Doug instead

It's not like we have anything to lose if Hayward ended up signing with Knicks or another team

Celtics lose Hayward for nothing though if he indeed simply signed into cap space with another team

I understand that a package of Lamb and Doug is underwhelming, and Celtics wouldn't want to help us acquire Hayward that cheaply

But if their desire to spite the face by cutting off the nose is stronger than their desire to recoup at least some value, then watching them do just that is also a satisfying win in my books


I suggested Lamb and Doug a couple days ago and got negative feedback.

So now we sit back with some toasted pine nuts and watch them lose Hayward for nothing

Delicious
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#247 » by granger05 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:07 am

Normally, I'd be excited about the prospect of the Pacers making a move to shake things up, but I don't see the fit with Hayward. It's nice that he wants to play for the team. It's rare that a small market team gets that kind of interest from a legitimately good player. I don't really want to move anything for him. He's a good player still even after the injury, but he'll be overpaid (likely) and I don't think his fit on the court will match the contract. I'd prefer we let him go elsewhere in this case.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#248 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:36 am

Topofthekey wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Which is close to what some Celtics posters have annoyingly been pushing for non stop

That's why it would be so, so sweet if the actual trade ended up being Lamb and Doug instead

It's not like we have anything to lose if Hayward ended up signing with Knicks or another team

Celtics lose Hayward for nothing though if he indeed simply signed into cap space with another team

I understand that a package of Lamb and Doug is underwhelming, and Celtics wouldn't want to help us acquire Hayward that cheaply

But if their desire to spite the face by cutting off the nose is stronger than their desire to recoup at least some value, then watching them do just that is also a satisfying win in my books


I suggested Lamb and Doug a couple days ago and got negative feedback.

So now we sit back with some toasted pine nuts and watch them lose Hayward for nothing

Delicious


With Atlanta signing Gallo, there's just New York and Charlotte with cap space, and Boston with bird rights. Everyone else has to go through Boston. They're fine sitting.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#249 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:50 am

It's quite unlikely that they retain Hayward, even if he re-signs at $20m

Kemba is $35m, Brown is $23m. Safe to assume Tatum gets something like $32m

If they retain Hayward at $20m, that's $110m for just four players

It doesn't look tenable

If they can't get any value out of a S&T, it's likely they just let Hayward go, signing with a cap space team with no compensation for Celtics
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#250 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:07 am

Topofthekey wrote:It's quite unlikely that they retain Hayward, even if he re-signs at $20m

Kemba is $35m, Brown is $23m. Safe to assume Tatum gets something like $32m

If they retain Hayward at $20m, that's $110m for just four players

It doesn't look tenable

If they can't get any value out of a S&T, it's likely they just let Hayward go, signing with a cap space team with no compensation for Celtics


They could. They could re-sign him, and look to move him next offseason when a ton of teams may have cap space. Tatum's extension is a year away from kicking in, so they'd survive for a year.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#251 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:19 am

Probably, that does buy them some time

It does feel nice to have a somewhat high profile player wanting to sign with the Pacers for a change

I guess this is what being a Lakers fan feels like
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#252 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:20 am

Topofthekey wrote:Probably, that does buy them some time

It does feel nice to have a somewhat high profile player wanting to sign with the Pacers for a change

I guess this is what being a Lakers fan feels like


Truth.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#253 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:23 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:It's quite unlikely that they retain Hayward, even if he re-signs at $20m

Kemba is $35m, Brown is $23m. Safe to assume Tatum gets something like $32m

If they retain Hayward at $20m, that's $110m for just four players

It doesn't look tenable

If they can't get any value out of a S&T, it's likely they just let Hayward go, signing with a cap space team with no compensation for Celtics


They could. They could re-sign him, and look to move him next offseason when a ton of teams may have cap space. Tatum's extension is a year away from kicking in, so they'd survive for a year.


But he has to want to resign there!


I'm gonna remember back to 2017 when the Celtics were trying to get the Pacers to give them Paul George for a pu pu platter.

Hayward signed with them on that huge contract, maybe he should have thought about playing for his home town team back then. The Pacers could have done a sign and trade at that time, but no he wanted boston and his old coach. :nod:

And Ainge wanted to give indiana a couple of late picks and some scrubs for PG so he could have his super team. Now they want us to hand them Turner for a guy who doesn't want to play there anymore.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#254 » by Lazlo4D » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:32 am

Could we just send Oladipo, Lamb, Leaf & protected 2021 FRP to NY for a 2nd round pick AND we keep Turner.

Knicks get a FRP, Oladipo who likely returns to All-star form, all 3 have short contracts, bargain for NY, saves there cap space for next year & is better deal for us. Who's left to sign for their cap space?

THEN we sign Hayward for like $ 80M/4yr PLUS it allows us to sign Justin Holiday for full MLE ? Bye bye Danny Ainge..

From the Boston media, the Celtics locker room is a toxic environment. Bunch of young egos: Smart, Brown, Tatum all who fight for shots and all think "they're the man". Add Kemba who was "the man" in Charlotte and you have a mess. No wonder Hayward wants out of there.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#255 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:48 am

Lazlo4D wrote:Could we just send Oladipo, Lamb, Leaf & protected 2021 FRP to NY for a 2nd round pick AND we keep Turner.

Knicks get a FRP, Oladipo who likely returns to All-star form, all 3 have short contracts, bargain for NY, saves there cap space for next year & is better deal for us. Who's left to sign for their cap space?

THEN we sign Hayward for like $ 80M/4yr PLUS it allows us to sign Justin Holiday for full MLE ? Bye bye Danny Ainge..

From the Boston media, the Celtics locker room is a toxic environment. Bunch of young egos: Smart, Brown, Tatum all who fight for shots and all think "they're the man". Add Kemba who was "the man" in Charlotte and you have a mess. No wonder Hayward wants out of there.

The idea is solid, but the salary cap is at $109m

Assuming Hayward signs for $20m, we'd need to trim our salaries down to $89m before we can sign him outright

In addition to Vic, Lamb, and Leaf we'd probably have to get rid of Warren too, to create enough space to sign Hayward outright

Scoot probably has a more accurate answer

It's do-able, but convoluted, and likely counter productive

But it's almost worth it, just to be able to flick Ainge and the Celtics the English V-sign
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#256 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:06 am

Lazlo4D wrote:Could we just send Oladipo, Lamb, Leaf & protected 2021 FRP to NY for a 2nd round pick AND we keep Turner.

Knicks get a FRP, Oladipo who likely returns to All-star form, all 3 have short contracts, bargain for NY, saves there cap space for next year & is better deal for us. Who's left to sign for their cap space?

THEN we sign Hayward for like $ 80M/4yr PLUS it allows us to sign Justin Holiday for full MLE ? Bye bye Danny Ainge..

From the Boston media, the Celtics locker room is a toxic environment. Bunch of young egos: Smart, Brown, Tatum all who fight for shots and all think "they're the man". Add Kemba who was "the man" in Charlotte and you have a mess. No wonder Hayward wants out of there.


He would have to sign for less than $18m in his 1st year, but in theory, that would work. I don't believe that NY has that much cap space left though, so you'd have to make a deal and split it with both NY and Charlotte, or other teams that have TPE's big enough to absorb the players. You'd probably pay quite a bit in terms of picks.

However, if we get under and use cap space, as you theorize, we would lose the full MLE and be relegated to using the Cap Room Exception, which we used to sign Holiday last year to a small deal. His non-bird rights would allow him more, but still not enough to make a fair offer to Justin.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#257 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:07 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Lazlo4D wrote:Could we just send Oladipo, Lamb, Leaf & protected 2021 FRP to NY for a 2nd round pick AND we keep Turner.

Knicks get a FRP, Oladipo who likely returns to All-star form, all 3 have short contracts, bargain for NY, saves there cap space for next year & is better deal for us. Who's left to sign for their cap space?

THEN we sign Hayward for like $ 80M/4yr PLUS it allows us to sign Justin Holiday for full MLE ? Bye bye Danny Ainge..

From the Boston media, the Celtics locker room is a toxic environment. Bunch of young egos: Smart, Brown, Tatum all who fight for shots and all think "they're the man". Add Kemba who was "the man" in Charlotte and you have a mess. No wonder Hayward wants out of there.

The idea is solid, but the salary cap is at $109m

Assuming Hayward signs for $20m, we'd need to trim our salaries down to $89m before we can sign him outright

In addition to Vic, Lamb, and Leaf we'd probably have to get rid of Warren too, to create enough space to sign Hayward outright

Scoot probably has a more accurate answer

It's do-able, but convoluted, and likely counter productive

But it's almost worth it, just to be able to flick Ainge and the Celtics the English V-sign


IF the goal was just to spite Danny Ainge, it could be done. It would certainly be cutting off our own nose, though, in terms of cost of players lost.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#258 » by Lazlo4D » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:23 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:IF the goal was just to spite Danny Ainge, it could be done. It would certainly be cutting off our own nose, though, in terms of cost of players lost.


If you don't win a championship then getting to tell Danny Ainge to take a hike is a nice consolation prize...

Brogdon, Hayward, Warren, Turner, Sabonis, McDermott, J. Holiday, A. Holiday, Goga, McConnell, Sumner, and even the new kid, Stanley is a great core for a new coach. At the least, valuable assets that can be rearranged/traded later if needed.

Next year there will be a ton a teams with lots of cap space. Good/great players will be in short supply & likely be getting premium salaries.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#259 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:31 am

Lazlo4D wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:IF the goal was just to spite Danny Ainge, it could be done. It would certainly be cutting off our own nose, though, in terms of cost of players lost.


If you don't win a championship then getting to tell Danny Ainge to take a hike is a nice consolation prize...

Brogdon, Hayward, Warren, Turner, Sabonis, McDermott, J. Holiday, A. Holiday, Goga, McConnell, Sumner, and even the new kid, Stanley is a great core for a new coach. At the least, valuable assets that can be rearranged/traded later if needed.

Next year there will be a ton a teams with lots of cap space. Good/great players will be in short supply & likely be getting premium salaries.


Remember, you traded McDermott off in that deal to get under the cap to sign Hayward. And we would lose the MLE, so we wouldn't be able to keep Justin Holiday, too. So, there's a couple more bodies gone and you're down to just 10 guys.

As for next year, a ton of teams will have lots of cap space because most of the contracts in the league will turn over, meaning there will be a TON of good/great players on the open market. Giannis, Dinwiddie, Paul George, Kawhi, Gobert, Jrue, Griffin, Lebron, Oladipo, Oubre, Porter, Powell, Reddick, Richardson, Rose, Schroeder, Theis, etc. It far eclipses this current free agent class, even if we expect Giannis and Lebron to return to their teams.
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Re: 2020 Draft & Free Agency 

Post#260 » by Lazlo4D » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:04 am

Scoot, I just come here to have fun, not to argue with you. But I didn't trade McDermott... I had Oladipo $21M , Leaf $4.5M, Lamb $10.5M & a FRP leaving. Maybe other filler stuff has to happen.

The NBA cap stuff, I'll defer to you but I'd simply prefer keeping Turner than Oladipo at this point.

The first goal is to win the East.

If getting Hayward & keeping Turner all the while makes the Pacers better and the Celtics worse. Well that's just good fun for the whole family.

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