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Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M

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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#21 » by Topofthekey » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

Pistons are all out of space. Hawks have cap space, but no roster role. Knicks have cap space and roster role. But they’re about it. Charlotte has space, but I don’t think they have $25m. Okc could have space after making all their moves if they renounce their TPE’s, but they’re just in value acquisition mode, not quite talent acquisition. And they won’t possibly renounce those for awhile and after the market is essentially over.

Boston has leverage with teams like us and Dallas, since we absolutely cannot acquire him this offseason without them playing along. Let’s be honest about that. And they have team needs in terms of roster space and fits themselves.

The thing is, Hayward to us is like a treat

It'll be nice if we can add him cheaply

But he's not our bread and butter

We are absolutely fine moving on without him

In fact, as has been discussed, taking him on while Warren is still on the team actually represents a problem, instead of a solution

If he wanted to go to Indiana, the negotiations should have been between him and the Celtics

The fact that he has opted out, before a deal is in place, is on him - I don't want us to be the one cleaning up his mess



You and I may view him as a treat, but we don’t know what Simon and Pritchard feel, and it’s only them that matter. Clearly we want him. We’re working on him. How much? To be determined by us and Danny Ainge.

It does look like someone from the Pacers side, either the owner, or KP, or whoever, must have taken an interest in Hayward, and Ainge/the Celtics have sensed that

That is probably the only way the Celtics get any leverage over the Pacers in this situation

It's slightly alarming, because the extent of the negotiations from the Pacers side should have been "Oh, Lamb and McDermott doesn't do it? Ok, we wish Gordon all the best in seeking his new contract somewhere else then"

Edit:
Didn't mean to turn this into another Hayward thread. Let's direct Hayward specific discussions to the other existing thread
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#22 » by Pacersike » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:58 pm

Sweeet contract. Every now and then some NBA contracts do amaze me in a good way.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#23 » by Boneman2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:09 pm

6 mill is less than he would have received on the open market. This kind of loyalty is rare these days.

I also appreciate the fact that Hayward was willing to give the Pacers a discount, now if KP could get Dipo to adjust.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#24 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:49 pm

Jake0890 wrote:
Read on Twitter


GREAT value for the Pacers. We need his production back and there's no way we could've replaced him at this price.



He had a great year he deserves the nice contract. Glad to have him back.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#25 » by basketballwacko2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:50 pm

Boneman2 wrote:6 mill is less than he would have received on the open market. This kind of loyalty is rare these days.

I also appreciate the fact that Hayward was willing to give the Pacers a discount, now if KP could get Dipo to adjust.



I think we just need to see what Victor can do once play starts back up.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#26 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:41 pm

Signed, sealed, delivered.

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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:12 pm

Contract officially filed with the league. He really did sign for his Non-Bird rights of just a 20% raise over last years salary. We still have the full MLE left, Though, unlikely to use it due to not much worth it left and our proximity to the luxury tax.

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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#28 » by granger05 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:08 pm

Can you use the MLE during the season for things like buy-out players after the deadline? I assume we'd want to avoid the tax, but if we moved Lamb or McDermott and had room under the tax can we sign a buy out player for more than a vet minimum using the MLE?
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#29 » by Wizop » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:57 pm

granger05 wrote:but if we moved Lamb or McDermott


or keep it simple and trade one of them for a forward making similar money.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#30 » by granger05 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:06 pm

Wizop wrote:
granger05 wrote:but if we moved Lamb or McDermott


or keep it simple and trade one of them for a forward making similar money.


Well, but my question was about whether the MLE expires at the start of the season or is available throughout. I was just cobbling together a situation where we could use that money without exceeding the line to get tax revenue back.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#31 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:33 pm

granger05 wrote:Can you use the MLE during the season for things like buy-out players after the deadline? I assume we'd want to avoid the tax, but if we moved Lamb or McDermott and had room under the tax can we sign a buy out player for more than a vet minimum using the MLE?


Yes. You can use the MLE during the season. It also doesn't start to pro-rate until January 10th (in a normal season), whereas a vet minimum begins to pro-rate on the first day of the season.

Ultimately, though, if we sign Stanley for our 15th spot, we would only be about $300k under the tax, so we'd be unlikely to use that MLE spot. If we clear more salary, it would be an option.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#32 » by Wizop » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:53 pm

granger05 wrote:
Wizop wrote:
granger05 wrote:but if we moved Lamb or McDermott


or keep it simple and trade one of them for a forward making similar money.


Well, but my question was about whether the MLE expires at the start of the season or is available throughout. I was just cobbling together a situation where we could use that money without exceeding the line to get tax revenue back.
I got that. But say you traded into someone's cap room. Then you'd be using the new room to sign a free agent. Now I'm going to assume that generally players that are free agents in the middle of the season aren't as good as players who made someone's roster. That's why I'm feeling that trading for a player may a simpler solution. The trick is to find a trading partner that needs a good shooting wing and has extra 4s. Think Jermaine ONeal stuck behind a solid vet.

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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#33 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:22 pm

Wizop wrote:
granger05 wrote:
Wizop wrote:
or keep it simple and trade one of them for a forward making similar money.


Well, but my question was about whether the MLE expires at the start of the season or is available throughout. I was just cobbling together a situation where we could use that money without exceeding the line to get tax revenue back.
I got that. But say you traded into someone's cap room. Then you'd be using the new room to sign a free agent. Now I'm going to assume that generally players that are free agents in the middle of the season aren't as good as players who made someone's roster. That's why I'm feeling that trading for a player may a simpler solution. The trick is to find a trading partner that needs a good shooting wing and has extra 4s. Think Jermaine ONeal stuck behind a solid vet.

Sent from my phone.


My read is that he's asking regarding the useful vets that get dealt and inevitably bought out around the trade deadline.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#34 » by granger05 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:36 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
granger05 wrote:
Well, but my question was about whether the MLE expires at the start of the season or is available throughout. I was just cobbling together a situation where we could use that money without exceeding the line to get tax revenue back.
I got that. But say you traded into someone's cap room. Then you'd be using the new room to sign a free agent. Now I'm going to assume that generally players that are free agents in the middle of the season aren't as good as players who made someone's roster. That's why I'm feeling that trading for a player may a simpler solution. The trick is to find a trading partner that needs a good shooting wing and has extra 4s. Think Jermaine ONeal stuck behind a solid vet.

Sent from my phone.


My read is that he's asking regarding the useful vets that get dealt and inevitably bought out around the trade deadline.


Yeah, I generally wanted to know if the MLE had an expiration date. For us, I wanted to know if we could use it to sign somebody that may want more than the minimum once the buyout market is established. I assume that the pacers don't want to exceed the tax line and we're right up against it so I was trying to avoid the answer that I assumed I'd get of somebody saying that we wouldn't use it for that reason. Obviously, my plan worked like a charm and I was able to get a quick answer.
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Re: Pacers Re-Sign Justin Holiday - 3 years, $18.1M 

Post#35 » by Wizop » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:53 am

granger05 wrote:Obviously, my plan worked like a charm and I was able to get a quick answer.
I'm willing to make a trade of 2nd unit players now, but your idea may have its time.

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