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Pacers Odds and Ends

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#101 » by Wizop » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:03 pm

Aaron could help get the backup 4 we need. I don't expect to get anyone's starting 4 but I like guys like Bjelica and Maxi. I'm sure there are others I've not noticed because they haven't played much against us.

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#102 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:38 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:So apparently Aaron is on the trading block

https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2021/03/19/indiana-pacers-aaron-holiday-reportedly-trade-block/amp/

I mean, I understand that Aaron hasn't been good this year, and combined with MCConnell's play, he's looking like the odd man out

But isn't trading Aaron now selling really low on him?

For the same reason that he looks like the odd man out with the Pacers, other teams would hesitate to give up any available asset for him . I mean, if you were the buyer, what would you be willing to give up for Aaron right now? A second round pick?

If indeed the team is looking to trade Aaron, I have to say I really don't understand the logic behind the move

He's under contract cheaply anyway. Even if he's the odd man out, it doesn't hurt the team to just stash him on the bench and see what happens next year. If anything, that's probably a good idea, as he can be the insurance policy in case McConnell doesn't return

And speaking of McConnell, if the team absolutely wants to trade someone, wouldn't trading McConnell be the more logical move?

Yes, I understand he's been playing very well and we all love him. But for the same reason that Aaron isn't going to fetch anything on the trade market, other teams may be willing to offer something with actual value for McConnell

If the team absolutely has to trade someone, it feels like they should sell high on McConnell. There's no guarantee that he will be back next season anyway, so why not just cash in on his value now. It kills two birds with one stone

For example, Clippers are reportedly looking for a playmaker. They might have real interest in McConnell. Would they consider something like McConnell + McDermott for Zubac?

That's something that is a lot more sensible, instead of trading Aaron for peanuts (which is what the team would be getting if they decide to trade him now)


As for Aaron, Zach Lowe mentioned that a lot of teams still really like Aaron Holiday. I think he could net a top 20 protected 1st, or a late 1st from a contender. I could also see Pritchard/Nate wanting to clear a little more room to try and keep Doug/TJ in free agency. We’re projected to have only around $12m before the tax, so moving Aaron’s nearly $4m salary could clear a little more breathing room to keep him, and show that we’re focused on keeping McConnell.

As for the Clippers deal, I’m not sure why we’d deal McConnell/McDermott for a 4th guy that would be best at the 5 spot (Turner, Sabonis, Goga already here). Realistically, it kills Goga’s future here, and I’m not sure how much playing time you can realistically get a Zubac here, as I don’t know how much you want to play Sabonis/Zubac together. Just seems like a tough fit.

I still think it's selling low on Aaron. But if as you say we could get a FRP in the 20s and provided the team likes who's available in the draft pool, then that's somewhat better

As for the Clippers deal, you're right, we don't need Zubac. It would need to be a 3 team deal where we send Zubac to a third team

For example, we could send Zubac to Hornets for PJ Washington or Miles Bridges, giving the team the backup 4 they need. Bridges is probably more realistic than Washington, but I'm fine with either

Effectively, it would mean we consolidated Doug and McConnell into Washington or Bridges, and I think that's good for the team. We'll probably have to add a bit to get Washington, but as I said I'm fine with either him or Bridges

There are also other teams who are looking for a good 5, Celtics for example. Warriors too, though I'm not sure what we would want from those two teams in return



Honestly, more teams in the league are looking for good backup PG’s, and shooting off the bench than are looking for a Zubac type center. I don’t think that this type of multi move swap actually benefits Indy moreso than looking to sleek TJ and Doug individually for their highest value.
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#103 » by winter_mute_13 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:59 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:As for Aaron, Zach Lowe mentioned that a lot of teams still really like Aaron Holiday. I think he could net a top 20 protected 1st, or a late 1st from a contender. I could also see Pritchard/Nate wanting to clear a little more room to try and keep Doug/TJ in free agency. We’re projected to have only around $12m before the tax, so moving Aaron’s nearly $4m salary could clear a little more breathing room to keep him, and show that we’re focused on keeping McConnell.


It's true that both Doug and TJ have played well and are great fits with new Nate's system. And yet running it back with an essentially playoff bubble team seems pretty wrong to me. I mean, if we're happy with that, we could have just stuck with old Nate and grind out more regular season wins probably. I hope the Pacers at least take a look at Doug/TJ's trade value.

I don't have the answers either, but I guess I'd like to see guys with more potential getting play. Like Aaron for example, new Nate gave him plenty of chances but it looks like he's losing minutes to Sumner even, so I'm pretty ok with the Pacers doing a reset on him if they could.
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#104 » by Wizop » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:53 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:Like Aaron for example, new Nate gave him plenty of chances but it looks like he's losing minutes to Sumner even, so I'm pretty ok with the Pacers doing a reset on him if they could.


I think Aaron has lost the minutes to McConnell at point. Then it becomes hard to play two small guards.

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#105 » by Tom White » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:37 pm

Wizop wrote:I think Aaron has lost the minutes to McConnell at point. Then it becomes hard to play two small guards.


His lack of size was my main beef when the Pacers drafted him. Since then I've found more about his game I don't like. Would love for the Pacers to move him for something more useful, whether that is a player or a pick.
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#106 » by Wizop » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:52 pm

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:I think Aaron has lost the minutes to McConnell at point. Then it becomes hard to play two small guards.


His lack of size was my main beef when the Pacers drafted him. Since then I've found more about his game I don't like. Would love for the Pacers to more him for something more useful, whether that is a player or a pick.
I remember watching that draft on TV and saying anyone but Holiday as our pick approached. He's exceeded my expectations and I have longed believed in carrying 3 point guards but . . .

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#107 » by Wizop » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:16 pm

We thought we'd slumped without Vic. Houston has now lost 20 straight.

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#108 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:49 pm

Wizop wrote:We thought we'd slumped without Vic. Houston has now list 20 straight.

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I mean, we did slump. They just slumped way worse going from Harden to Oladipo.
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#109 » by Topofthekey » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:19 am

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:I think Aaron has lost the minutes to McConnell at point. Then it becomes hard to play two small guards.


His lack of size was my main beef when the Pacers drafted him. Since then I've found more about his game I don't like. Would love for the Pacers to move him for something more useful, whether that is a player or a pick.

I'd be ok with trading Aaron if the return is a pick in the 20s, but I'm not sure whether other teams are offering that for him

I'd rather just keep him if all Pacers could get for him is another 2RP
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#110 » by Wizop » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:05 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:We thought we'd slumped without Vic. Houston has now list 20 straight.

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I mean, we did slump. They just slumped way worse going from Harden to Oladipo.
Schadenfreude

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#111 » by Wizop » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:20 am

Topofthekey wrote:I'd be ok with trading Aaron if the return is a pick in the 20s, but I'm not sure whether other teams are offering that for him

I'd rather just keep him if all Pacers could get for him is another 2RP


I agree a frp is unlikely. I still want a 4.

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#112 » by Topofthekey » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:25 am

Wizop wrote:Aaron could help get the backup 4 we need. I don't expect to get anyone's starting 4 but I like guys like Bjelica and Maxi. I'm sure there are others I've not noticed because they haven't played much against us.

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Maxi would be a great bench big for the team

Unlikely Mavericks would trade him for Aaron Holiday though
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#113 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:00 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Wizop wrote:Aaron could help get the backup 4 we need. I don't expect to get anyone's starting 4 but I like guys like Bjelica and Maxi. I'm sure there are others I've not noticed because they haven't played much against us.

Sent from my phone.

Maxi would be a great bench big for the team

Unlikely Mavericks would trade him for Aaron Holiday though


Maxi is to the Mavs almost what Myles is to us. He’s their defensive problem solver. He’s not getting moved unless he absolutely has to for a true superstar type return.
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#114 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:02 pm

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#115 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:22 pm

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#116 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:26 pm

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#117 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:43 pm

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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#118 » by Topofthekey » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:03 am

Alize with a 23/15 game for the Nets against the Pistons

If there's one thing that I really dislike about this team over the past couple of years, it's how stingy they are with opportunities for young players

Other teams are giving their young guys opportunities to play, even if they have their ups and downs. For example look at how Brad Stevens is allowing Payton Pritchard to play. Most of the time he looks like the lost rookie that he is, but Celtics are still committed to giving him steady playing time, and as a result Pritchard has had the opportunity to showcase his shooting stroke, and that's how they can develop him as a player from there

But the young players on this team mostly end up just rotting away on the bench, because they treat every single game of the regular season like a playoff game. This damn team
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#119 » by Lazlo4D » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:21 pm

A tidbit I found... With so many protections on a lot of these picks, sometimes little exceptions get buried.

I was reading about Houston's trade of Oladipo to Miami and saw this about the Rocket's 2023 SRP:
• Their second-round picks goes to Indiana if the 31st or 32nd pick or the least favorable of the Rockets' pick if 33 to 36 and Miami's goes to Indiana.
• The most favorable of the Rockets' second-round pick, if between 33rd and 60th, or least favorable of Dallas' and Miami's goes to Boston.

So, unless I am reading this wrong, if Houston has one of the 2 worst records in 2022-23 season, the Pacers get the Rocket's SRP (#31 or #32). That is very plausible and could be a nice pick for the Pacers.

See the Future Assets section on this page:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/rockets/article/Rockets-go-from-James-Harden-to-Victor-Oladipo-to-16054298.php
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Re: Pacers Odds and Ends 

Post#120 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:50 pm

Lazlo4D wrote:A tidbit I found... With so many protections on a lot of these picks, sometimes little exceptions get buried.

I was reading about Houston's trade of Oladipo to Miami and saw this about the Rocket's 2023 SRP:
• Their second-round picks goes to Indiana if the 31st or 32nd pick or the least favorable of the Rockets' pick if 33 to 36 and Miami's goes to Indiana.
• The most favorable of the Rockets' second-round pick, if between 33rd and 60th, or least favorable of Dallas' and Miami's goes to Boston.

So, unless I am reading this wrong, if Houston has one of the 2 worst records in 2022-23 season, the Pacers get the Rocket's SRP (#31 or #32). That is very plausible and could be a nice pick for the Pacers.

See the Future Assets section on this page:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/rockets/article/Rockets-go-from-James-Harden-to-Victor-Oladipo-to-16054298.php



It’s made quite the rounds. RealGM lists it as such:
2023 second round draft pick from Houston, Dallas or Miami
Oklahoma City will receive the more favorable of Dallas' 2023 2nd round pick and Miami's 2023 2nd round pick; Boston will receive the more favorable of (i) Houston's 2023 2nd round pick protected for selections 31-32 and (ii) the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will receive the least favorable of the three (via Miami to Dallas; via Memphis' right to swap Dallas or Miami for Houston); if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Boston will be extinguished and Boston will instead receive the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will instead receive the Houston pick [Dallas-Miami, 7/7/2017; Dallas-Memphis, 7/8/2019; Houston-Memphis, 2/6/2020; Boston-Memphis-Portland, 11/20/2020; Dallas-Detroit-Oklahoma City, 11/27/2020; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

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