Image

Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM

Moderators: pacers33granger, boomershadow, Grang33r, pacerfan, Jake0890

ducler
Cold Hard Gameday Facts
Posts: 13,167
And1: 8,329
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: France
Contact:
   

Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#1 » by ducler » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:10 pm

Read on Twitter
Image
User avatar
boomershadow
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 4,268
And1: 4,606
Joined: Jul 14, 2014
Location: Naptown
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#2 » by boomershadow » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:30 pm

I don't like our chances, especially with how Bogdan has been playing recently.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,480
And1: 948
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#3 » by Topofthekey » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:09 pm

Myles plus the second unit did well in the 2nd quarter, trimming the deficit to just 3 points, after a twenty point hole in the 1st quarter

Bjorkgren pulled them out with about 5 mins remaining though, and Pacers are now down 9 at halftime

Goga yet to make an appearance. Let's hope that changes in the 2nd half. And more of Aaron and Sumner, please
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#4 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:22 pm

Ugh. Goga with the DNP-CD.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#5 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:50 am

Atlanta's 2nd unit was small and we matched down leaving Goga on the bench. LeVert also played less than normal in the 2nd half. We're struggling to find a rotation.

Sent from my phone.
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,480
And1: 948
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#6 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:22 am

This roster is clunky. Pritchard has his work cut out for him this off-season

I've long felt that Pacers don't have to trade Myles or Domas, but it's evident by now that the only way Goga gets to be a meaningful part of the rotation is if one of Myles or Domas gets traded
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#7 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:33 pm

I no longer have Sabonis as untouchable but I'm not concerned about Goga's minutes. A team needs 3 centers to deal with injuries and foul trouble and he's only 20. Were we to trade Sabonis for a true 4, we'd still need another player who can defend the post and the 3rd center wouldn't get many minutes.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#8 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:51 pm

Wizop wrote:I no longer have Sabonis as untouchable but I'm not concerned about Goga's minutes. A team needs 3 centers to deal with injuries and foul trouble and he's only 20. Were we to trade Sabonis for a true 4, we'd still need another player who can defend the post and the 3rd center wouldn't get many minutes.


Sure, you need 3 Centers, always. But, we’re burying Goga there, when we could have a Jakarr Sampson as the 3rd center pretty easy.

If we don’t find a way to reliably get Goga minutes every single night, we’re going to waste him and kill his development. I’m not saying we HAVE to deal Turner or Sabonis to do so, but with the way Bjorkgren is playing his roster, it certainly seems so.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#9 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:45 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:If we don’t find a way to reliably get Goga minutes every single night, we’re going to waste him and kill his development. I’m not saying we HAVE to deal Turner or Sabonis to do so, but with the way Bjorkgren is playing his roster, it certainly seems so.


I'd feel that stronger if the off season were to give us a 4. we just don't have the Davis Brothers type who can be either a 4 or a 5. I suppose you could say Myles is that but I think the 3 we have are all just modern 5's no matter how well they shoot 3s. you mention Jakarr but I'm just not a fan. maybe Brissett but I've not seen enough to even have an opinion whether we just sign him to a regular contract after his second 10 days.

last night's loss was depressing. we're starting to get locked into 9 with a playin game against Chicago or Toronto. I don't like either matchup. even the lottery isn't all that appealing if the object is a 4.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#10 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If we don’t find a way to reliably get Goga minutes every single night, we’re going to waste him and kill his development. I’m not saying we HAVE to deal Turner or Sabonis to do so, but with the way Bjorkgren is playing his roster, it certainly seems so.


I'd feel that stronger if the off season were to give us a 4. we just don't have the Davis Brothers type who can be either a 4 or a 5. I suppose you could say Myles is that but I think the 3 we have are all just modern 5's no matter how well they shoot 3s. you mention Jakarr but I'm just not a fan. maybe Brissett but I've not seen enough to even have an opinion whether we just sign him to a regular contract after his second 10 days.

last night's loss was depressing. we're starting to get locked into 9 with a playin game against Chicago or Toronto. I don't like either matchup. even the lottery isn't all that appealing if the object is a 4.


Davis brothers are pure 5’s nowadays. If you’re a 4/5, you’re really just a 5, with maybe some ability to play the 4, too (like Myles). Realistically, you’re hoping for a 4/3 or a 3/4. A big, strong wing.

As for Jakarr, I’m talking about him as a 15th man. An emergency, 3rd string center. He’s fine enough in that role. I don’t see a 3rd center as needing to be much more than that. Our problem is that we’d rather play Jeremy Lamb as a 4, than play Goga together with either Myles or Domas. I really don’t see that as a good thing.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#11 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:17 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Davis brothers are pure 5’s nowadays. If you’re a 4/5, you’re really just a 5, with maybe some ability to play the 4, too (like Myles). Realistically, you’re hoping for a 4/3 or a 3/4. A big, strong wing.

Our problem is that we’d rather play Jeremy Lamb as a 4, than play Goga together with either Myles or Domas. I really don’t see that as a good thing.


with the Davises and Smits, you could pay any two of them together. would you say the same thing about Myles, Domas, and Goga? actually, I think you could if you played some sort of double post.

if we had Warren, I suppose you could make a case for having him get some minutes at the 4. I think he'd be better at it than Lamb. Thad Young would be better still but I understand why we didn't compete with Chicago's offer. Thad could play with Myles, Damos, or Goga.

still trying to find a 4 in the draft. maybe Franz but he looks a little light. I see his brother got waived but I remember him as a pure 5.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#12 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:53 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Davis brothers are pure 5’s nowadays. If you’re a 4/5, you’re really just a 5, with maybe some ability to play the 4, too (like Myles). Realistically, you’re hoping for a 4/3 or a 3/4. A big, strong wing.

Our problem is that we’d rather play Jeremy Lamb as a 4, than play Goga together with either Myles or Domas. I really don’t see that as a good thing.


with the Davises and Smits, you could pay any two of them together. would you say the same thing about Myles, Domas, and Goga? actually, I think you could if you played some sort of double post.


Yes, 25-30 years ago, you could play any of those guys together, because back then the Davises were 4’s. Nowadays, they’re pure 5’s.

As for now? I think you could reasonably play runs of Myles with either Domas or Goga, but I wouldn’t plan on playing them together 30+ minutes and run a pure pairing like the Dale used to with Rik.
if we had Warren, I suppose you could make a case for having him get some minutes at the 4. I think he'd be better at it than Lamb. Thad Young would be better still but I understand why we didn't compete with Chicago's offer. Thad could play with Myles, Damos, or Goga.


Thad’s almost purely playing the 5 this year, and he’s really only effective at the 5. Warren played solely the 4 in the bubble when he had his offensive explosion, and that’s why a lot of writers projected us moving Myles this past summer in order to play Warren at the 4 this year. This is where the league is going with old school 3’s playing the 4. Think of Derrick McKey. He wouldn’t be a 3 in this league. He’d be a pure 4, and maybe even a 5, like Thad Young.

The big question here is: are you willing to be the outlier in the entire NBA, and play as teams did 10+ years ago with classic big 4’s to go with mostly interior 5’s. If so, you could run with Thad at the 4. Or run Myles/Sabonis at the 4/5 for 30+ minutes a night. But, clearly, Nate Bjorkgren is not willing to do that, and dictate to other teams how to play. He’s going to be more of a futuristic style of hybrid, smaller players (i.e., Lamb/Warren at the 4, in a game where Myles/Domas were the only classic big men he played).
still trying to find a 4 in the draft. maybe Franz but he looks a little light. I see his brother got waived but I remember him as a pure 5.


Look at the 3’s, too. Any 3 that is 6’6” (but strong) to a 6’9” guy is going to be an NBA 4, even if they’re listed as a 2/3 in draft prospects. A guy like Franz might even grow more into a 5 long term than a 4. You could look at a guy like Josh Giddey out of Australia as a 3/4 in that you could use him as a playmaking 3 in concert with Warren at the 4. Or a Zaiare Williams as a 4. Scottie Barnes is being listed as a 3 or a Wing most places, but I would predict he’s going to play like a Draymond Green at the 4 with his defensive versatility. Etc.
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,480
And1: 948
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#13 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:15 pm

Domas to the Warriors is quite obvious

Warriors sorely lack a big man. Domas would absolutely thrive playing with a guard like Steph Curry, and Curry would benefit from playing with an excellent screen setter and passer like Domas

Warriors don't really have any pieces that fit us however, so the Wolves pick and/or Wiseman would have to be rerouted to a 3rd team

I'm really hopeful that something like this gets done on draft night, once the status of that Wolves pick becomes known
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#14 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Scottie Barnes is being listed as a 3 or a Wing most places, but I would predict he’s going to play like a Draymond Green at the 4 with his defensive versatility. Etc.


I'm with you on Barnes as he should be able to defend the 4. His shot is an issue though and I think he'll go higher but I like him.

I wouldn't do the big trade to make a starting position for him or any other rookie through.

Sent from my phone.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#15 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:00 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Scottie Barnes is being listed as a 3 or a Wing most places, but I would predict he’s going to play like a Draymond Green at the 4 with his defensive versatility. Etc.


I'm with you on Barnes as he should be able to defend the 4. His shot is an issue though and I think he'll go higher but I like him.

I wouldn't do the big trade to make a starting position for him or any other rookie through.

Sent from my phone.


Yeah, I think he's much like Draymond Green in his defensive flexibility and offensive passing/playmaking, along with questionable shot. He kind of projects to be able to guard all 5 positions, like Dray. I do think he'll go top 7 for sure, though, but too low if we jump up in the lottery. It'd have to be a Minnesota pick type trade.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#16 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:02 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Domas to the Warriors is quite obvious

Warriors sorely lack a big man. Domas would absolutely thrive playing with a guard like Steph Curry, and Curry would benefit from playing with an excellent screen setter and passer like Domas

Warriors don't really have any pieces that fit us however, so the Wolves pick and/or Wiseman would have to be rerouted to a 3rd team

I'm really hopeful that something like this gets done on draft night, once the status of that Wolves pick becomes known


I bet they'd prefer Myles to Domas, though. But, again, not that I'm specifically hung up on Scottie Barnes, but I think we'd have to be able to pick up a great all around defender like him via a draft pick if we dealt Myles. And agreed on Wiseman having to be re-routed. Even to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st would be preferable, and depending on where their pick ends up, seems like something they'd be happy to do.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 11,436
And1: 1,963
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#17 » by Wizop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:54 pm

[quote="Scoot McGroot] Any 3 that is 6’6” (but strong) to a 6’9” guy is going to be an NBA 4, even if they’re listed as a 2/3 in draft prospects.[/quote]

I'm holding out for 6'9" or maybe less with a 7' wingspan. I want a 4 that is bigger than Lamb.

Sent from my phone.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#18 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:58 pm

Wizop wrote:[quote="Scoot McGroot] Any 3 that is 6’6” (but strong) to a 6’9” guy is going to be an NBA 4, even if they’re listed as a 2/3 in draft prospects.[/quote]

I'm holding out for 6'9" or maybe less with a 7' wingspan. I want a 4 that is bigger than Lamb.

Sent from my phone.[/quote][/quote]



Lamb is 6’5”.

But also, Draymond Green and even Miles Bridges are 6’6”. It’s not crazy. Heck, if Justin had an extra 30 pounds on his frame, I think he could be the answer at the 4.
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,480
And1: 948
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#19 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:59 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Domas to the Warriors is quite obvious

Warriors sorely lack a big man. Domas would absolutely thrive playing with a guard like Steph Curry, and Curry would benefit from playing with an excellent screen setter and passer like Domas

Warriors don't really have any pieces that fit us however, so the Wolves pick and/or Wiseman would have to be rerouted to a 3rd team

I'm really hopeful that something like this gets done on draft night, once the status of that Wolves pick becomes known


I bet they'd prefer Myles to Domas, though. But, again, not that I'm specifically hung up on Scottie Barnes, but I think we'd have to be able to pick up a great all around defender like him via a draft pick if we dealt Myles. And agreed on Wiseman having to be re-routed. Even to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st would be preferable, and depending on where their pick ends up, seems like something they'd be happy to do.

Well, I've always said if we have to choose, we keep Myles over Domas

I think one of the reason other teams would prefer to trade for Myles instead of Domas, besides their on court impact, is the perceived asking price of both players. Myles is still thought of as a role player by most teams, so from their POV they are probably thinking/hoping to acquire Myles for a relatively cheap price. Otoh, Domas is a two time all star, so other teams know that they would need to offer an all star package in order to get him, and consequently they may prefer to go for the cheaper (in their mind) player, who they feel can have just as much on court impact as the more expensive Domas

But if the Warriors are willing to actually offer more for Myles than Domas, then yes I am open to the idea of keeping Domas and trading Myles instead

If we do trade Myles and keep Domas though, in addition to trying to replace Myles' defense, we would also need to upgrade our guards

Domas isn't yet capable of handling the defensive focus that opponents sometimes throw at him when they clamp down on him. In order for Domas to operate at his full potential, we would need to acquire a guard who can consistently draw the attention of the opposing team and make full use of Domas' screens. Brogdon is inconsistent, and LeVert's shot selection is questionable at times
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,889
And1: 5,660
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Game 56 : Indiana Pacers (26-29) @ Atlanta Hawks (30-26) - 1:00 PM 

Post#20 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:03 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Domas to the Warriors is quite obvious

Warriors sorely lack a big man. Domas would absolutely thrive playing with a guard like Steph Curry, and Curry would benefit from playing with an excellent screen setter and passer like Domas

Warriors don't really have any pieces that fit us however, so the Wolves pick and/or Wiseman would have to be rerouted to a 3rd team

I'm really hopeful that something like this gets done on draft night, once the status of that Wolves pick becomes known


I bet they'd prefer Myles to Domas, though. But, again, not that I'm specifically hung up on Scottie Barnes, but I think we'd have to be able to pick up a great all around defender like him via a draft pick if we dealt Myles. And agreed on Wiseman having to be re-routed. Even to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st would be preferable, and depending on where their pick ends up, seems like something they'd be happy to do.

Well, I've always said if we have to choose, we keep Myles over Domas

I think one of the reason other teams would prefer to trade for Myles instead of Domas, besides their on court impact, is the perceived asking price of both players. Myles is still thought of as a role player by most teams, so from their POV they are probably thinking/hoping to acquire Myles for a relatively cheap price. Otoh, Domas is a two time all star, so other teams know that they would need to offer an all star package in order to get him, and consequently they may prefer to go for the cheaper (in their mind) player, who they feel can have just as much on court impact as the more expensive Domas

But if the Warriors are willing to actually offer more for Myles than Domas, then yes I am open to the idea of keeping Domas and trading Myles instead

If we do trade Myles and keep Domas though, in addition to trying to replace Myles' defense, we would also need to upgrade our guards

Domas isn't yet capable of handling the defensive focus that opponents sometimes throw at him when they clamp down on him. In order for Domas to operate at his full potential, we would need to acquire a guard who can consistently draw the attention of the opposing team and make full use of Domas' screens. Brogdon is inconsistent, and LeVert's shot selection is questionable at times



I would think that we either move Domas this offseason, or move two or more of our other “key” guys to better fit.

Heck, we might see wholesale change. Who knows. Pritchard doesn’t open up that much.

Return to Indiana Pacers