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2021 Free Agency & Off-season

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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#361 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:06 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Oh, maybe. Beverley isn’t terribly good anymore and would maybe be a 3rd string PG depending on the night with Brogdon and McConnell.

But why would you want to do that?


okay, I'm being Larry Bird valuing a player for what he used to be, but Beverley is an example not an option cast in stone. as for why, if Duarte is starting at the 2 and LeVert is a bit unhappy about that and there are no takers for Lamb, we could use to save a little money and acquire a 3rd PG known for defense and toughness. now maybe Sumner and Jarreau will provide defense off the bench but there is still Pritchard's stated need for a tone setting veteran.



It’s just a salary dump is all, in this case. Even if Levert and Duarte switch spots, Levert would still play a major role, while Beverley would be buried pretty deep for emergency minutes.

I get the line of thinking, but by the way that local reporters have written, it seems like the front office would move on from Brogdon before Levert. And I think we have a solid year or more before we have to move someone on to clear a starters spot for Duarte.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#362 » by Guzman_9 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:58 pm

I just watch Pacer games on crackedstreamz
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#363 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:04 am

I think the future direction of the Pacers roster lies with Carlisle’s assessments of the core group that he wants to run it back with this season. I’m sure he wants to see who can run his offense, who’s willing to play defense, and which players fit well together. Of course he’ll be working closely with KP to mold his own type of team structure. I almost get the feel that KP is looking for Carlisle to strengthen his job status which took a hit with Bjork. We already see the emphasis on defense. They’re also going to see if TJ Warren is a building block worth retaining next year and if he is then who fits well with him. Will be interesting at season end to see which Pacers they’re valuing and who is expendable to acquire a more cohesive team built around Carlisle’s systems. I’m not seeing any moves coming except to decide Sykes and Martin’s possible involvement.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#364 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:24 am

I wouldn’t assume that Sykes (or Martin, Lamb, etc) is truly wanted as a main piece of the roster, so much as they want to push competition at the bottom of the roster in camp. We waived Brimah, and he is looking elsewhere, so he won’t be in camp, but we’ve tried to bring Stanley into camp on a non-guaranteed exhibit 10, and basically have him and Sykes compete with Martin for a possible roster spot, and even in a way compete with Washington and Jarreau for the 2 way spots. They did the same last offseason by bringing in Martin on a partial guarantee.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#365 » by Barkley6 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:58 am

Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#366 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:59 pm

Barkley6 wrote:Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.


Thanks for stopping by, and welcome!

I had a quick think over this, and pretty quickly turned it down for Indy for a major reason: we don’t want Saric on the books for next season. Right now, even if healthy, we have Myles Turner at the 4. We really like Oshae Brissett there, AND we just drafted Isaiah Jackson (who will play the 4 and 5) and signed Torrey Craig for a specific role. Even when healthy, Saric is clearly not a starter, and is merely competing for minutes in the rotation, while possibly slowing down the development of our other guys. Add in that we would rather have the contract cleared off the books, so that we can potentially re-sign TJ Warren and Ed Sumner, and there’s just no real way to make this kind of deal work for Indy at this time. But otherwise, I don’t see Cleveland making that swap either. They love Nance, and his value is MUCH better than 2 2nds and a lesser player who will miss most all of this upcoming season.

Maybe circle back if Indy makes a larger deal involving either Myles or Sabonis (but only if we’re not getting back a 4 or 5 in the deal)?


Edit: Forgot to point out, Indy is already under the luxury tax, by about $760k. Moving Lamb would just give us more breathing room in case Turner finally makes All-Defense or Sabonis makes All-NBA.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#367 » by Wizop » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:21 pm

Barkley6 wrote:Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.


Saric or Nance would find a bigger place in our rotation than Lamb but the savings are all this year. Lamb is in his final year and next year we need to give his salary to TJ Warren who is also in a contract year. if you were giving us an expiring deal or one that was only guaranteed for this year, this would work. as it is it gives us terrible tax problems next year.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#368 » by Topofthekey » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:14 pm

Barkley6 wrote:Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.

Why not just cut Pacers out and deal directly with Cavs?

A Lamb for Saric swap doesn't work for the Pacers at all, as pointed out by others
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#369 » by Barkley6 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:17 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.

Why not just cut Pacers out and deal directly with Cavs?

A Lamb for Saric swap doesn't work for the Pacers at all, as pointed out by others


Cleveland wants a wing, not a big, for Nance Jr. Suns don't have a wing to trade. Therefore a 3rd team was needed.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#370 » by Topofthekey » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:22 pm

Barkley6 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.

Why not just cut Pacers out and deal directly with Cavs?

A Lamb for Saric swap doesn't work for the Pacers at all, as pointed out by others


Cleveland wants a wing, not a big, for Nance Jr. Suns don't have a wing to trade. Therefore a 3rd team was needed.

Well you'll have to find another wing from another team then, or find an expiring contract to trade for Lamb
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#371 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:49 pm

Barkley6 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:Hey, Everyone,

I came here to propose a possible trade, I posted this on the Phoenix board and it seemed to be met with pretty high praise, but I'd be curious to see what you all think about it since you know your team better than I do. Not trying to troll, just want some feedback, or even a counter proposal. Thanks!

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for their system on a reasonable contract.

Why not just cut Pacers out and deal directly with Cavs?

A Lamb for Saric swap doesn't work for the Pacers at all, as pointed out by others


Cleveland wants a wing, not a big, for Nance Jr. Suns don't have a wing to trade. Therefore a 3rd team was needed.



I think it’s a tough construction. You would either need to find a 4th team to provide a smaller expiring, or to just absorb Saric completely. The other big problem is that if the question is either Saric or Nance, and the extra cost is only 2 2nds, Indy, and likely most any other team in the league, would happily pay the extra 2nds for the better player, and one that will play for both seasons they’re under contract and not recovering from a major leg injury. We could just waive Martin and have the space against the tax we need. Either way, the inclusion of Phoenix/Saric is just kind of the weakest link of a multi team trade here.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#372 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:49 am

Different subject that I haven’t seen anyone’s stance on. Do you think the league should somehow put measures in place to stop teams like the Nets and Lakers from being able to load up on quality players who are bought out ? I wish something could be done so that these constructed super teams who have the best talent already are able to spend over the cap and when all the money is maxed just enough they then get bought out players for peanuts to fill out their roster. It just feels like an unfair advantage making it impossible for most of the teams in the league to come close to the top 4 playoff teams in the East and West. Injuries took their toll on the Lakers and somewhat on the Nets this year. Anyone else frustrated with this ?
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#373 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:39 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Different subject that I haven’t seen anyone’s stance on. Do you think the league should somehow put measures in place to stop teams like the Nets and Lakers from being able to load up on quality players who are bought out ? I wish something could be done so that these constructed super teams who have the best talent already are able to spend over the cap and when all the money is maxed just enough they then get bought out players for peanuts to fill out their roster. It just feels like an unfair advantage making it impossible for most of the teams in the league to come close to the top 4 playoff teams in the East and West. Injuries took their toll on the Lakers and somewhat on the Nets this year. Anyone else frustrated with this ?


I’ll be honest, I’m not at all upset with it. It’s been a big conversation on the Trades and Transactions forum since the deadline, and it hasn’t gone away as a discussion. However, we realistically haven’t seen a real difference maker being bought out. Look at Blake Griffin. He flashed for a game or two, played some useful minutes, but entered free agency and got largely no offers elsewhere, and his market value when everyone could sign him is a vet minimum deal. Andre Drummond pulled a bunch of news because he was averaging 18/14 when Cleveland tried and tried and just couldn’t find a buyer via trade, so they bought him out. He went to LA, put up 12/10, and largely got played off the court in the playoffs when it mattered, and now signed a vet minimum deal in free agency to backup Embiid in Philly. That was largely his market value. Sure, not many teams had cap space, but both players largely had major question marks that limited their market and value elsewhere. By and large, these guys bought out have been tried to be traded for a long-time, and the teams that employed them have found enough value in just getting a minor amount of money back via buyout and letting them go. Once that happens, they’re free agents. They should be able to sign with whomever.

I think it’s also important to point out that Indy has “benefitted” via the buyout market before, too, in signing Wes Matthews late in a season when we had a major injury to cover, and hypothetically, when we signed Andrew Bynum, though it definitely took a turn for the worse and quickly. But, that’s the deal. Sometimes, these buyouts look great, but they actually hurt teams, too. :dontknow:
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#374 » by Wizop » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:21 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:when we signed Andrew Bynum, though it definitely took a turn for the worse and quickly. But, that’s the deal. Sometimes, these buyouts look great, but they actually hurt teams, too. :dontknow:


chemistry matters. getting Bynum ruined Hibbert. bringing McGinnis back thinking it would help in the first playoff opportunity we'd had in years also left the prior starters feeling disrespected and the team got worse not better.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#375 » by Tom White » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:07 pm

Wizop wrote:getting Bynum ruined Hibbert.


I think that was more on Hibbert than Bynum. I thought Bynum simply outplayed Hibbert when he got here. Of course there wound up being other problems with Bynum, but Hibbert really needed to "man-up" and reclaim his place. He just didn't do that.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#376 » by Wizop » Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:22 pm

Tom White wrote:
Wizop wrote:getting Bynum ruined Hibbert.


I think that was more on Hibbert than Bynum.


Hibbert and management. Hibbert's confidence was shattered and he never got it back. management didn't foresee the danger in signaling that we needed help at the center position. iron doesn't always sharpen iron. sometimes the forge makes the metal weaker.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#377 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:17 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:keeping Martin when they could've easily cut him and pocketed the small amount of cash.


Has there been an announcement? 5:00 has come and gone but I've looked and can't find anyone saying what was done, or not done.

Sent from my phone.



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Martin’s contract guarantee date is tomorrow (8/31), so we should hear something in the next 48 hours. It’s possible they could push back his guarantee date again, whether with or without Indy paying some partial guarantee. At this point, a lot of jobs are taken around the league (I think NBA teams have on average 13.5 guaranteed contracts (out of 15) for the season already. It might be in Kelan’s best interest to push back his date with Indy into training camp and hope Indy can work something out with a Lamb trade. That is, unless he and his agent think they can get a deal with someone else for camp with some guaranteed money.

I would not expect Indy to guarantee Kelan before a Lamb deal is executed.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#378 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:20 pm

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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#379 » by Pacers Forever » Wed Sep 1, 2021 8:48 am

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Re: 2021 Free Agency & Off-season 

Post#380 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:21 pm

Pushed back to October 19. Not sure if he got any partial guarantee out of it, as yet.

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