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Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#41 » by pacers33granger » Thu May 6, 2021 5:28 pm

Don't have the ability to link it right now, but if that bleacher report article is true, then this is more on management than we thought.

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#42 » by Topofthekey » Thu May 6, 2021 5:29 pm

I mean, true. Goga, like most kids these days, absolutely needs to be taught some discipline if they run their mouth like that

But blowing up and shouting at them, and using physical intimidation, isn't the way to do it. Especially when you are on TV

That assistant coach's reaction only showed that he lost control. It only reveals how frustrated, and probably insecure, he is with the situation that he's in. He probably regretted it after waking up the next day

Goga needs to understand what he did was very disrespectful. Bench him until he shows remorse if you have to. Though I'm not sure whether this will be more of a punishment for him or the team, given how shorthanded the team is

As for that assistant, he most likely needs to be reassigned. I have a feeling he isn't too popular with the players, judging by the immediate reaction of some of the players. For example, you can see Lamb getting in front of him, looking not too pleased with him. Someone who lost control, and isn't popular with the players, yea he needs to not be on bench going forward

But damn, he's huge though, he looks taller than Myles
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#44 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 6:12 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
C'mon now he wasn't going to fight him on the sidelines or anything as you say get within arms reach. Where I do agree with you is he should have earned Goga's respect before hand where he would not have said that to Foster. But to play Devil's Advocate.... if you are Foster and you let a player talk to you like that from the court and don't do anything about it.... how do you function. Foster over reacted 100%. You tell an alpha male (all athletes are) to sit the F down... there is going to be a reaction.

If I looked at my boss in front of all of our workers and told him to sit the F down there is going to be a confrontation.


We don’t know what he was going to do if he got there. That’s the problem. But you can’t look at the way he charged and tried to rush through his fellow coaches and the players and say “Clearly he was level-headed and just wanted to talk”. But you’re saying he was rushing through people holding him back just to talk and coach?

And again, coaches have to sacrifice. If they’re focused on “keeping it real” and whatnot, they’re failing their players. Alpha male or not (and I disagree that all athletes are “alpha males”, or that even Foster is “alpha male”...he seems more like “likes to fight guy”). Coaches work to get the best out of their players, not to get in their face if they feel like they’re not respected enough. Bob Knight was that way. Coaches now aren’t necessarily that, and don’t have to be that.


As for comparing the NBA, with a collective bargain, to your job, I just wouldn’t. There’s likely little to no comparison. One is collectively bargained, while the other is likely “right to work”. And even if you tell your boss to “f off”, if he chases after you and ends up placing hands on you, he still has committed assault and/or battery. That’s not ok, either. That’s representative of poor management, much like Greg Foster’s actions were. And the team seems to agree as Goga was fined, while Foster was suspended.


But he didn't put his hands on Goga. You're charging after him thing is purely speculative. So when Foster was T'd off he was supposed to say oh... they have a CBA? C'mon.

Look I know times have changed and that is definitely for the better. If this was a regular thing then he should be gone. I didn't even know Greg Foster was on the staff so this seems to be a one off. Woj tweet said he and Goga have a great relationship. Sometimes competitors get fired up. I'm cool with them sitting him for a game. But this really isn't a big deal.


He didn't get hands on him, but he was clearly charging towards Goga. I mean, 100%. No doubt about it. That's who he was chasing. I don't think there's any way around that.

Competitors get fired up, for sure. If it was just him saying stuff, absolutely. But man, if your coach, someone that's supposed to lead men, can't control their emotion that they explode physically like that? Well, probably shouldn't be coaching or leading people.


I'll also say this. It's most likely that Foster is absolutely upset at working under Bjorkgren, and let it slip against Goga after his "F You" comment, and it's terribly unfortunate it came out there, instead of against Bjorkgren. It sucks that it will be held against Greg, instead of against Nate and probably even KP/Chad.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#45 » by Topofthekey » Thu May 6, 2021 6:14 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2942713-inside-the-turbulent-tenure-of-indiana-pacers-coach-nate-bjorkgren

Very interesting read

Sounds like Pacers messed up their hiring process. Reading the article, you get the idea that they could have found out about Bjorkgren's issues if they just talked to people, like Bjorkren's G league players or even Pacers' very own TJ Warren

It sounds really strange for a billion dollar organization to be this incompetent and botch their coaching hire this badly
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#46 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 6:17 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Don't have the ability to link it right now, but if that bleacher report article is true, then this is more on management than we thought.

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I'll say this, Jake Fischer is a guy that's usually about 40% right, at best. But if he's only 40% right on this, it's still pretty damning in a lot of ways on management. At least, the TJ Warren demanding a trade and getting the surgery just because he hates Bjorkgren has been pretty heavily denied by a lot of Pacers sources, and quickly, since publication.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#47 » by pacers33granger » Thu May 6, 2021 7:53 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Don't have the ability to link it right now, but if that bleacher report article is true, then this is more on management than we thought.

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I'll say this, Jake Fischer is a guy that's usually about 40% right, at best. But if he's only 40% right on this, it's still pretty damning in a lot of ways on management. At least, the TJ Warren demanding a trade and getting the surgery just because he hates Bjorkgren has been pretty heavily denied by a lot of Pacers sources, and quickly, since publication.
Yeah its definitely a take it with a grain of salt article. But it is concerning if management didn't do enough due diligence. The TJ part seems off as it seems against his personality.

I will say i definitely agree with your earlier point that Foster may have blown up due to Nates style. I'm sure he saw Gogas issues and knew he would be chewed out for it. Doesn't change a thing, just makes Nate the jerk/problem too in this scenario.

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#48 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 8:15 pm

Read on Twitter
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But, obviously, this could be a pushback against one, or all, of he many things.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#49 » by Tom White » Thu May 6, 2021 8:21 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2942713-inside-the-turbulent-tenure-of-indiana-pacers-coach-nate-bjorkgren

Very interesting read

Sounds like Pacers messed up their hiring process. Reading the article, you get the idea that they could have found out about Bjorkgren's issues if they just talked to people, like Bjorkren's G league players or even Pacers' very own TJ Warren

It sounds really strange for a billion dollar organization to be this incompetent and botch their coaching hire this badly


To me, it is incredible that they did not talk to one of their own players who had previously had him as a coach. That is somewhere between disrespectful, sloppy or just not caring to get input from a player.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#50 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 8:24 pm

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#51 » by Wizop » Thu May 6, 2021 8:42 pm

My son tells me Foster was suspended. He thinks that was wrong since Goga swore at him. I think it was right. I'd have no problem if he'd punched Goga in the nose after the game in the locker room. but in public he represents the team and the city.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#52 » by granger05 » Thu May 6, 2021 9:13 pm

One thing I think you take for granted as a Pacers fan is that we've had stable and competent leadership for as long as I've been paying attention. There have been bad cycles on the court, but generally they've had a lot of success as a small market team that's never managed to land an all-NBA 1st team calibre player. This looks bad, but Isaiah Thomas felt pretty incompetent as a coach and I didn't really like what Jim O'Brien was doing either. It isn't like we haven't had bad coaching before. The bleacher report article is calling out not communicating with Phoenix, but mentions that we had a lot of contact with Toronto on him which is his most recent gig. I'm sure that having such a wide net in the initial search maybe limited how deep we went on everybody. It does sound like he's had very long relationships with people in the front office but maybe not in a situation where they've seen his working relationships with underlings.

This season has been a downer after a promising start. We have a lot of very good players, but no star power. I was hopeful a new staff would find ways to maximize what we have, but that hasn't been the case. I don't know if this is somebody in the front office throwing the coaches under the bus to save their own job, but this seems like a lost year you could chalk up to injuries, COVID and lots of change and just run it back so that seems unnecessary.

These clips from yesterday certainly look like Foster making a scene, but I'm sure there are heated moments on every team with players and these coaches who are former players themselves. This one went to 11, but it mostly looks bad with everything else just coming out. I'd really like to see Goga come out and take some responsibility too and say something to the effect of it being overblown and wanting to continue working with Foster. That would at least make me feel like the team isn't a complete **** show right now.

I won't lie, I find myself just having lottery dreams these days instead of playoff dreams.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#53 » by Pacersike » Thu May 6, 2021 9:21 pm

Overly optimistic and abrasively harsh fit worse together than Bobby Leonard and modern NBA radio broadcasting. People's thoughts sure go far sometimes.

All those anonymous leakers (of rumors) do worse than Bjorkgren. Kevin and Chad Buchanan have the responsibility to find the right characters. Foster losing control, Goga insulting a staff member, Sabonis fleeing from conflict, Malcolm with the weak hand gesture, Lamb with some fuel to the conflict. Lot's of weaknesses besides our headcoach.

Myles Turner has one of the best reactions, good firm attempt with respect for Foster's emotions.

We can do better as a group and the group has to demand good leadership from their leaders. We can fix this, with Nate, with everyone else, it's the unmatched beauty of a human mind.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#54 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 9:57 pm

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#55 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 6, 2021 10:09 pm

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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#56 » by Pacers Forever » Fri May 7, 2021 3:09 am

Cliff note version is players weren't happy with old Nate.
Organization wasn't happy with not getting farther in playoffs.
Old Nate had to go.
Couldn't get their first option, very sloppy procedure and fact finding before and during interview process, or a case of let's hire this guy who can hopefully bring to Indy the winning strategies of Nick Nurse ?
Pritchard and Buchanan screwed up the coaching search we now see regardless.
This has nothing to do with T. J. Warren's injury and him not coming back.
Bjork has created a hostile environment with his abrasiveness and I think insecurity of being a rookie head coach. He should have gone in being a players coach the first year to gain their trust. He went about it the wrong way. You can't manage with an iron fist until you have earned the respect in the league and from your players and staff. You can't dog your assistants and expect the players not to see it. You can't build respect with your assistants treating them how he obviously has.

I have no connections or inside to the inner workings. However, common sense of what we read and see from the media plus game broadcasts shows enough to see deep functional issues within the organization and team causing poor results.
I'm undecided if Pritchard needs to go.
Don't know if Buchanan needs to go.
Bjork has to go.
The rest of the coaching staff needs evaluated by management with input from the players. Could change anyway with new coach.

I feel stronger than ever that Domas if retained can handle offense and rebounding. Defensive drives and covering away from the basket nope !
I feel very good that Myles needs to be retained for interior defense and leadership.
I see LeVert can score but sometimes tries to do too much. Defense is lacking.
Brogdon can score and will stay in control with other scorers on the court. Defensively lacking because can't guard quicker guards.
Warren as much as I think he can be a stud spot up scorer has to improve his rebounding and defense. I am willing to trade him regretfully to get that 4.
Brissett has shown us that a rebounding and defensive 4 is desperately needed in the starting lineup and he's too inexperienced to be that guy currently. He's a nice replacement for Jakkar.
Justin Holiday is a good spot up shooter, but can't be expected to guard any player bigger than him. Shouldn't be starting.
McConnell is important to resign this off season because his defensive spark plus offense is important to the second unit.
McDermott is a streaky shooter, a great cutter, and a second teamer. Shouldn't be starting. I could regretfully part with Doug.
Sumner is all about QUICK ! Sometimes a bit out of control like McConnell but can break down a defense with his drives.
Goga still so inexperienced but has been a better year of development. So young and a lot of learning to do. Needs to be more aggressive under the rim defensively. Backs off too many times not contesting enough.
Martin very young and inexperienced but has a nice stroke.
Stanley raw and just needs playing time whether in G league or on squad.
Aaron Holiday looking better this year but needs to learn when to take his shot and when to run a play. Doesn't always see cutters, and needs defense work.
Jakkar bye !
Lamb hopefully bye ! He can score but seems so lax in defense, also just seems not interested at times.
Brimah 2 way developmental guy.

So in summary I could see the Pacers management bringing back almost everyone for a new head coach to try to mold chemistry.
I also could see them bring most back with the exception of Lamb and Jakkar possibly being traded to obtain needed defense or a cheap 4. Any other number of players could be traded to try to reshape the team around LeVert and Myles.

Thanks for reading my rambling speculation and hope for a better next year. Cliff notes turned into a rant ! :lol:
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#57 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri May 7, 2021 1:34 pm

I’m not saying one way or the other where I fall on this report, but there is some real credible push back coming from multiple areas. Granted, those pushbacks don’t address all the problems.

Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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And TJ Warren tweeted strongly yesterday that the reports regarding him were incorrect and unfounded.

Again, if Fischer is a guy that gets 40% right, at best, how much is true in the 0-40% range? It CERTAINLY SEEMS like the interpersonal reports of Nate grinding on people inside the franchise and all that jazz is grounded in a truthful basis. As such, that alone seems like a firable territory for Nate.
It certainly seems that almost all of the TJ Warren related posts are incorrect.
Toronto is pushing back on all the things related to them.
Still could be true that they didn’t reach out to Phoenix (but if the background checks otherwise came back clear, that’s not shocking, though still not a best practice).

My conspiracy theory is based around Fischer being a long-time Sixers fan and writer. Could some of this be coming out of Burke/Popeye/Dinwiddie since they were all pushed out from long-term gigs here over the last year or two? I don’t know. That still wouldn’t “erase” all the report. But it appears that Fischer also posted some bad info in his report, too. How much? We’ll, we likely won’t find out until postseason and we get a retrospective from a JMichael that he knew all that was happening, but couldn’t report it until after everyone is fired :lol:
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#58 » by Wizop » Fri May 7, 2021 1:34 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Warren has tweeted that he never requested a trade and BleacherReport has updated their story to remove that claim. Their story is the longest version I've seen.

note also, that after last night's game McConnell also countered most of the story of discontent.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#59 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri May 7, 2021 1:39 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Warren has tweeted that he never requested a trade and BleacherReport has updated their story to remove that claim. Their story is the longest version I've seen.

note also, that after last night's game McConnell also countered most of the story of discontent.



Yeah, this was also really confusing last night, too.
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Re: Woj: Bjorkgren on the hot seat 

Post#60 » by Wizop » Fri May 7, 2021 2:22 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Yeah, this was also really confusing last night, too.


I don't believe everything I read. Certainly someone said something to someone but I've not given up on Bjorkgren yet. I find it very significant that he has publicly said he needs to do some things better. I always felt Bird fired Isiah after one phone call because Isiah took no responsibility for the prior year's issues even though he was clearly learning how to coach. now my friend Bob who was first an Army officer and later taught leadership at IUPUI says once a leader screws up he's finished with that group and can't rebuild trust. I think he's premature as we really don't know what happened. perhaps we never will.

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