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Moving Forward

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#101 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat May 22, 2021 4:13 pm

winter_mute_13 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:If the reports of his temper and demeanor are true, you kinda have to wonder if it was the stress of all the above getting to him eventually.


Possible, and also that the stress of the losing situation led some players/staff to badmouth him, when maybe they wouldn't have if the Pacers were winning.

No opinion on how bad this stuff really was, but I remember that similar things were said about Rick Carlisle in Detroit. And then he was hired by the Pacers, where he was mostly fine. Maybe his social skills improved by then, I don't know.

pacers33granger wrote:At this point, I think the most reasonable approach is to reassess the rest of the staff and find a respected former head coach or high level assistant. Maybe Atkinson? Joerger was interviewed, but he also had a prickly attitude so that may not work. Maybe we steal Adrian Griffin from Nurse as someone whose respected, a former player, and would know how to deal with Nate.


Yeah, if new Nate stays we would need some vet types, both on the coaching staff and the roster. Maybe even let someone else take over the defense, which might not be something he'd agree to. But I guess we'll see.



I’d be interested to see some in-depth reporting from local beat writers on the assistant coaches, training staff, management, etc. The answers at exit interviews still kind of mesh up with the reports that Nate knows how to “suck up and pi** down”. The players and GM/POBO all seem to personally like him, as he theoretically would suck up to them a lot. But people that he views as underneath him in the Fischer reports all universally loathed him. Hard to say.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#102 » by pacers33granger » Sat May 22, 2021 8:04 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:If the reports of his temper and demeanor are true, you kinda have to wonder if it was the stress of all the above getting to him eventually.


Possible, and also that the stress of the losing situation led some players/staff to badmouth him, when maybe they wouldn't have if the Pacers were winning.

No opinion on how bad this stuff really was, but I remember that similar things were said about Rick Carlisle in Detroit. And then he was hired by the Pacers, where he was mostly fine. Maybe his social skills improved by then, I don't know.

pacers33granger wrote:At this point, I think the most reasonable approach is to reassess the rest of the staff and find a respected former head coach or high level assistant. Maybe Atkinson? Joerger was interviewed, but he also had a prickly attitude so that may not work. Maybe we steal Adrian Griffin from Nurse as someone whose respected, a former player, and would know how to deal with Nate.


Yeah, if new Nate stays we would need some vet types, both on the coaching staff and the roster. Maybe even let someone else take over the defense, which might not be something he'd agree to. But I guess we'll see.



I’d be interested to see some in-depth reporting from local beat writers on the assistant coaches, training staff, management, etc. The answers at exit interviews still kind of mesh up with the reports that Nate knows how to “suck up and pi** down”. The players and GM/POBO all seem to personally like him, as he theoretically would suck up to them a lot. But people that he views as underneath him in the Fischer reports all universally loathed him. Hard to say.


Yeah it's clearly hard to tell. But maybe our assistants sucked? Of course there's more than that, but maybe they just didn't mesh well. Wish we knew the whole story with Bayno. If it was truly due to Nate, then we'd have a better sense.

My guess at this point is Nate expected a lot out of them and likely took out frustrations on them. It's probably why Foster got so heated at Goga's poor defense. He knew he was going to get ripped a new one because the bigs he's coaching aren't getting it.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#103 » by Wizop » Sat May 22, 2021 10:02 pm

I read reports at the time that had Bayno suffering depression or some other mental health or addiction issue. It read like a reoccurrence of a prior problem and not a Nate issue.

I wouldn't read too much into the recorded exit interviews. Any complaints would have been kept behind closed doors.

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#104 » by davidfr94 » Sat May 22, 2021 10:17 pm

Is Warren injury career altering ? Do you think he Can Come back 100%,?

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#105 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun May 23, 2021 2:07 am

davidfr94 wrote:Is Warren injury career altering ? Do you think he Can Come back 100%,?

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We have no idea. Reportedly, the surgery he had should fix the plantar issues in that foot. He previously had the same surgery in his other foot and returned to play his best play of his career after, with his best health season. So, we hope he’ll be 100%… :dontknow:
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#106 » by TB » Wed May 26, 2021 9:27 pm

Warriors fan here... curious what y'all think about a sign and trade of Oubre for either Turner or Sabonis...

Oubre for 18m, the Minny Pick (unless its 4th), 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Sabonis.

or

Oubre for 18m, 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Myler Turner.

or

Wiseman, Looney, Paschall for Myles Turner

I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there to get us a center that is a little more in line with our Win Now needs.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#107 » by Tom White » Wed May 26, 2021 9:55 pm

Doubtful.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#108 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 27, 2021 2:10 am

TB wrote:Warriors fan here... curious what y'all think about a sign and trade of Oubre for either Turner or Sabonis...

Oubre for 18m, the Minny Pick (unless its 4th), 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Sabonis.

or

Oubre for 18m, 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Myler Turner.

or

Wiseman, Looney, Paschall for Myles Turner

I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there to get us a center that is a little more in line with our Win Now needs.


Well, Oubre is immediately terrible money on those deals. Also, because Oubre would be a S&T, and he can’t negotiate at all in free agency until a couple weeks after the draft, he realistically can’t be traded with a pick in this draft, because you would have to pick for Indy, and then, 2 weeks later trust that Oubre would only want to go to Indy, and that he’d come to terms on a contract both he and Indy like, and that he wouldn’t at the last second say “Syke, give me $30m or I won’t sign and you just wasted 2 draft picks on guys you don’t like”. A S&T with current year draft picks has never happened for logistical reasons. Realistically, you’d have to send out Wiseman and Looney as the salary filler to match with either Turner or Sabonis. But, we don’t want Wiseman. He’s a fine prospect and should have value, but if we deal a Turner or Sabonis, it would be to break up the Twin Towers approach once and for all. But here, we’d be getting a good portion of value back in another twin tower….AND we already have a young backup center we like that we’re developing in Goga Bitadze, which is also what allows us to deal a Turner or Sabonis in the first place! :lol:

And neither Turner offer is In the neighborhood of interesting to begin with :wink:

Also, GS can’t deal the 2023 1st since they owe a 2024 1st to Memphis.

The Sabonis deal is a bit off, too. The Minny pick and 14 area good start, but you’d realistically have to have Wiseman in there both for value and salary matching. Send Wiseman to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st, if you can get it and we’ll take that along with the Minnesota pick and 14. We’d then use 11, 13, and 14 in attempts to trade up as high as we can, or attach one to Lamb/Holiday for a better fitting veteran piece. Looney could be our 3rd center for a year.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#109 » by Topofthekey » Thu May 27, 2021 10:59 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
TB wrote:Warriors fan here... curious what y'all think about a sign and trade of Oubre for either Turner or Sabonis...

Oubre for 18m, the Minny Pick (unless its 4th), 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Sabonis.

or

Oubre for 18m, 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Myler Turner.

or

Wiseman, Looney, Paschall for Myles Turner

I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there to get us a center that is a little more in line with our Win Now needs.


Send Wiseman to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st, if you can get it and we’ll take that along with the Minnesota pick and 14. We’d then use 11, 13, and 14 in attempts to trade up as high as we can, or attach one to Lamb/Holiday for a better fitting veteran piece. Looney could be our 3rd center for a year.

Yes, this is brilliant, this is more or less the exact trade I want/hope to see happen. Insert Shia Lebouf clapping meme here

Sabonis with Steph is a genuinely interesting combo with championship potential, if surrounded by good defensive pieces, which the Warriors have

If Warriors have any useless salaries to match, I'd also be happy to send them some depth pieces in LeVert and Lamb, just to help them/Sabonis/Steph win the championship next season. They can use their MLE on a decent backup big or combo forward and they'll be ready. Maybe they can also see if Kings have any interest in trading Harrison Barnes for Oubre in a S&T

For Pacers, we'd hopefully draft someone like Green at #4, either by trading up with the #6, #11, #13, and #14 picks, or better yet having one of those picks move up in the lottery

Turner, Bridges, Warren, Green, Brogdon
Goga, Brissett, Justin, Sumner, Aaron, TJ
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#110 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu May 27, 2021 12:20 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
TB wrote:Warriors fan here... curious what y'all think about a sign and trade of Oubre for either Turner or Sabonis...

Oubre for 18m, the Minny Pick (unless its 4th), 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Sabonis.

or

Oubre for 18m, 14th pick, top 20 protected 2023 for Myler Turner.

or

Wiseman, Looney, Paschall for Myles Turner

I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there to get us a center that is a little more in line with our Win Now needs.


Send Wiseman to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st, if you can get it and we’ll take that along with the Minnesota pick and 14. We’d then use 11, 13, and 14 in attempts to trade up as high as we can, or attach one to Lamb/Holiday for a better fitting veteran piece. Looney could be our 3rd center for a year.

Yes, this is brilliant, this is more or less the exact trade I want/hope to see happen. Insert Shia Lebouf clapping meme here

Sabonis with Steph is a genuinely interesting combo with championship potential, if surrounded by good defensive pieces, which the Warriors have

If Warriors have any useless salaries to match, I'd also be happy to send them some depth pieces in LeVert and Lamb, just to help them/Sabonis/Steph win the championship next season. They can use their MLE on a decent backup big or combo forward and they'll be ready. Maybe they can also see if Kings have any interest in trading Harrison Barnes for Oubre in a S&T

For Pacers, we'd hopefully draft someone like Green at #4, either by trading up with the #6, #11, #13, and #14 picks, or better yet having one of those picks move up in the lottery

Turner, Bridges, Warren, Green, Brogdon
Goga, Brissett, Justin, Sumner, Aaron, TJ


Realistically, if 6, 11, or 14 move up in the lottery, then Charlotte and GS likely aren’t trading them in a deal like this. All these spitballs are based on the concept that these picks stay where they’re at. If they move up, those teams will value them MUCH higher.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#111 » by TB » Thu May 27, 2021 10:45 pm

Enjoyed the responses y'all, thanks!

Tricky part for Warriors is going to be to send enough draft capital to have a team be okay taking Oubre for 1 year 15+ million. But I think Oubre may be on board because no way someone is going to sign him to a massive amount that actually wants him and not the picks coming with him.

Other option is let Oubre walk, and use Wiggins massive contract + Wiseman/Picks to go max player hunting.

Should be a fun offseason.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#112 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri May 28, 2021 2:02 am

TB wrote:Enjoyed the responses y'all, thanks!

Tricky part for Warriors is going to be to send enough draft capital to have a team be okay taking Oubre for 1 year 15+ million. But I think Oubre may be on board because no way someone is going to sign him to a massive amount that actually wants him and not the picks coming with him.

Other option is let Oubre walk, and use Wiggins massive contract + Wiseman/Picks to go max player hunting.

Should be a fun offseason.


Oubre’s people think he can get $20+m on a multi year deal. And, simply, the timing doesn’t work well, as Oubre would be completely in control, and have both GS and Indy (or another potential team) completely under his control. Realistically, if you want to S&T Oubre with a pick, you should hope that the Minnesota pick rolls over into next year so it’d be easier to include them together. And to get Oubre to agree to a 3 year deal with the last 2 years non-guaranteed. There’s a lot of control for him in that regard. It would require him giving up total control to a team contractually.

In terms of salary matching, you could use Wiseman/Looney as a package to basically match the salaries there.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#113 » by Topofthekey » Fri May 28, 2021 3:22 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Send Wiseman to Charlotte for Miles Bridges and their 1st, if you can get it and we’ll take that along with the Minnesota pick and 14. We’d then use 11, 13, and 14 in attempts to trade up as high as we can, or attach one to Lamb/Holiday for a better fitting veteran piece. Looney could be our 3rd center for a year.

Yes, this is brilliant, this is more or less the exact trade I want/hope to see happen. Insert Shia Lebouf clapping meme here

Sabonis with Steph is a genuinely interesting combo with championship potential, if surrounded by good defensive pieces, which the Warriors have

If Warriors have any useless salaries to match, I'd also be happy to send them some depth pieces in LeVert and Lamb, just to help them/Sabonis/Steph win the championship next season. They can use their MLE on a decent backup big or combo forward and they'll be ready. Maybe they can also see if Kings have any interest in trading Harrison Barnes for Oubre in a S&T

For Pacers, we'd hopefully draft someone like Green at #4, either by trading up with the #6, #11, #13, and #14 picks, or better yet having one of those picks move up in the lottery

Turner, Bridges, Warren, Green, Brogdon
Goga, Brissett, Justin, Sumner, Aaron, TJ


Realistically, if 6, 11, or 14 move up in the lottery, then Charlotte and GS likely aren’t trading them in a deal like this. All these spitballs are based on the concept that these picks stay where they’re at. If they move up, those teams will value them MUCH higher.

Yes, that's why I'm assuming this trade is done before the lottery results are out, so the plan is either to try to trade up, or get lucky in the lottery, after having acquired those picks before the lottery

If Hornets moved up into the top 4, I don't think they will be trading the pick

The only team that is likely to trade their pick is the Warriors. Even then, it's only possible if the Wolves pick moved up to #4, as any higher the pick doesn't convey. As for the Warrior's own pick, if it moves up all the way to #1, I think they're just going to keep it and draft Cade
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#114 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri May 28, 2021 3:50 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Yes, this is brilliant, this is more or less the exact trade I want/hope to see happen. Insert Shia Lebouf clapping meme here

Sabonis with Steph is a genuinely interesting combo with championship potential, if surrounded by good defensive pieces, which the Warriors have

If Warriors have any useless salaries to match, I'd also be happy to send them some depth pieces in LeVert and Lamb, just to help them/Sabonis/Steph win the championship next season. They can use their MLE on a decent backup big or combo forward and they'll be ready. Maybe they can also see if Kings have any interest in trading Harrison Barnes for Oubre in a S&T

For Pacers, we'd hopefully draft someone like Green at #4, either by trading up with the #6, #11, #13, and #14 picks, or better yet having one of those picks move up in the lottery

Turner, Bridges, Warren, Green, Brogdon
Goga, Brissett, Justin, Sumner, Aaron, TJ


Realistically, if 6, 11, or 14 move up in the lottery, then Charlotte and GS likely aren’t trading them in a deal like this. All these spitballs are based on the concept that these picks stay where they’re at. If they move up, those teams will value them MUCH higher.

Yes, that's why I'm assuming this trade is done before the lottery results are out, so the plan is either to try to trade up, or get lucky in the lottery, after having acquired those picks before the lottery

If Hornets moved up into the top 4, I don't think they will be trading the pick

The only team that is likely to trade their pick is the Warriors. Even then, it's only possible if the Wolves pick moved up to #4, as any higher the pick doesn't convey. As for the Warrior's own pick, if it moves up all the way to #1, I think they're just going to keep it and draft Cade


No trades involving a lottery pick have ever been traded between when the season ended and before the draft lottery occurs. Not once. Assume the picks are locked in where they are. It would be horrible risk management for a GM to ever do something like that.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#115 » by Topofthekey » Fri May 28, 2021 6:42 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Realistically, if 6, 11, or 14 move up in the lottery, then Charlotte and GS likely aren’t trading them in a deal like this. All these spitballs are based on the concept that these picks stay where they’re at. If they move up, those teams will value them MUCH higher.

Yes, that's why I'm assuming this trade is done before the lottery results are out, so the plan is either to try to trade up, or get lucky in the lottery, after having acquired those picks before the lottery

If Hornets moved up into the top 4, I don't think they will be trading the pick

The only team that is likely to trade their pick is the Warriors. Even then, it's only possible if the Wolves pick moved up to #4, as any higher the pick doesn't convey. As for the Warrior's own pick, if it moves up all the way to #1, I think they're just going to keep it and draft Cade


No trades involving a lottery pick have ever been traded between when the season ended and before the draft lottery occurs. Not once. Assume the picks are locked in where they are. It would be horrible risk management for a GM to ever do something like that.

I see, so it's just trading up then
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#116 » by Wizop » Mon May 31, 2021 12:49 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#117 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Jun 2, 2021 2:41 pm

Guess we can write off any remote possibility of a Brad Stevens being the next coach here, with the news that he’s stepping away from the Boston bench to take over the front office.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#118 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 2, 2021 5:16 pm

The podcast with the Ants coach is worth a listen for his opinions on the 2ways.

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/lockedonpacers?selected=LKN5574401649

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