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Moving Forward

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#41 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun May 16, 2021 3:47 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot Mcgroot wrote:We did win in those eras, but the game has vastly sped up since then.


And yet this year we're second in the league in fast break points. We're hardly the old double plodder team we once were.

Sent from my phone.


True, we’re 4th in pace overall. We’re 29th in rebounding, including dead last in defensive rebounding by quite a bit. We also can’t defend in transition or the fast break.

Wizop wrote:
boomershadow wrote:I wanna move Brogdon.


Of our starting 4 plus Warren, I'd be most comfortable moving Brogdon, but I would be happy keeping them all. I'm definitely not in the Pritchard must be fired if he doesn't do X camp.

Sent from my phone.


I would agree that there’s no clear cut answer for this summer or the roster. I have a hard time seeing Pritchard run it completely back though, coaching staff included. It sounds like the assistants are all leaving of their own volition, and reports were that Bjorkgren had a hard enough time signing up assistants as it was last offseason….I can’t imagine it would be any easier for a potential 2nd season.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#42 » by Wizop » Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:True, we’re 4th in pace overall. We’re 29th in rebounding, including dead last in defensive rebounding by quite a bit. We also can’t defend in transition or the fast break. . . .

It sounds like the assistants are all leaving of their own volition, and reports were that Bjorkgren had a hard enough time signing up assistants as it was last offseason.


Agree the answer isn't obvious. I just don't think lack of speed is the cause. Usually there is a tradeoff between offensive rebounding and allowing fast breaks. We're bad at both. As for our own breaks, TJ's steals are a factor.

It'd be fun to be a fly on the wall in players' and assistant coaches' end of season interviews.

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#43 » by boomershadow » Sun May 16, 2021 4:15 pm

I'm not in the fire Pritchard camp. I am in the fire Bjorkgren camp. I was sold on the hire at first, and there are things I liked about what he did, but ultimately it didn't quite work out. The leadership in the locker room. The defense. The drop in record even with a similar roster. I thought he deserved the chance he got. Some first year coaches sink and some swim. This year he sank. It happens, but I do think it's time to move on.

I think there are still good candidates out there.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#44 » by Wizop » Sun May 16, 2021 4:28 pm

I think there are basically two options. 1) blame the coach. Get a new one and tell him (or her) that we need to see what he can do with the current roster before we make big changes. 2) blame the roster. Keep the coach and make a big trade.

I'm discounting 3) blame the injuries and bring everyone including coaches back. 4) get a new coach and trade one or more starters.

A lot depends on exit interviews though. Pritchard needs to talk to everyone behind closed doors and not rely on hearsay.

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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#45 » by Wizop » Sun May 16, 2021 7:00 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#46 » by Topofthekey » Sun May 16, 2021 8:13 pm

Hot take: Goga is a better rim protector than Myles

Myles is the one with the league leading BPG number, but I feel Goga has better instincts as a shot blocker and is a bit more patient

Small sample size, but it feels like Goga is the smarter shot blocker who doesn't easily give up defensive positioning in pursuit of blocks

Myles is the more aggressive and high octane rim protector, but I think Goga is at least just as effective if not better

Of course, Myles is still much better on the perimeter than Goga, and that's one area I don't think Goga can surpass him. Goga with his niggling injuries and all that, just doesn't seem like he will develop into the very mobile type of 5

Interesting that each of our 5 have distinct strengths and weaknesses

If only we can combine the 3 of them into 1, the resulting player will become an absolute monster
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#47 » by 8305 » Sun May 16, 2021 10:45 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:What do you hope to get for them


Turner and Levert to Golden State for Wiggins and the Minn 2021 1st
Seems reasonable value and upgrades us defensively at a wing spot.


Wiggins is a defensive upgrade on Levert, for sure. But also losing Turner would be a huge defensive downgrade, too. In theory, I like the pick, but consider that it would be a player very soon. Would you deal Turner/Levert for Wiggins/Barnes, knowing that you’d be adding enough salary to the books that you would definitely force out one of McConnell/McDermott, maybe both?


If you are rolling with Sabonis the overall composition of the rest of the team has to get more athletic. If you agree with that premise neither McConnell or McDermott are that important
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#48 » by 8305 » Sun May 16, 2021 10:50 pm

Wizop wrote:I think there are basically two options. 1) blame the coach. Get a new one and tell him (or her) that we need to see what he can do with the current roster before we make big changes. 2) blame the roster. Keep the coach and make a big trade.

I'm discounting 3) blame the injuries and bring everyone including coaches back. 4) get a new coach and trade one or more starters.

A lot depends on exit interviews though. Pritchard needs to talk to everyone behind closed doors and not rely on hearsay.

Sent from my phone.


If #1 and #2 are the only choices (not sure I agree with that) I’m keeping the coach before I’m keeping the current roster.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#49 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 17, 2021 12:21 am

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
Turner and Levert to Golden State for Wiggins and the Minn 2021 1st
Seems reasonable value and upgrades us defensively at a wing spot.


Wiggins is a defensive upgrade on Levert, for sure. But also losing Turner would be a huge defensive downgrade, too. In theory, I like the pick, but consider that it would be a player very soon. Would you deal Turner/Levert for Wiggins/Barnes, knowing that you’d be adding enough salary to the books that you would definitely force out one of McConnell/McDermott, maybe both?


If you are rolling with Sabonis the overall composition of the rest of the team has to get more athletic. If you agree with that premise neither McConnell or McDermott are that important


I guess I don’t necessarily agree with the concept that the rest of the team has to get “Uber-athletic”. I think Warren’s return and Oshae’s signing help a ton. A draft pick could too. But, if both McConnell and McDermott walk, you have only the MLE and BAE to possibly replace them. You won’t gain cap space or anything of the sort. :dontknow:

I would agree that Turner for Wiggins makes the team more stylistically athletic. It definitely doesn’t make the team better defensively though. It’s clearly a downgrade, if “getting more athletic” is the goal, especially if Levert (a quite athletic scorer) goes out, too.

I’m not bothered by a possible trade of one of Brogdon/Levert or Sabonis/Turner. Just has to make sense. And, it can’t be “upgrades us defensively at a wing spot” if it really downgrades the roster defensively so much that the Levert to Wiggins upgrade is a massive downgrade on court with Turner gone. If all that makes sense. If you want to acquire Wiggins, that’s fine. Just sell it as “he’s a wing, and we’d have to match salaries, and really we get other stuff that makes us better in the long-run, but worse right now”. Don’t sell it as if it’s upgrading the roster defensively. I’m not sold that Wiggins is really a good defender. I think he’s a worker, there, who looks better when playing next to a Draymond, much like Warren is a worker that looks better defensively next to a Turner.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#50 » by 8305 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:20 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wiggins is a defensive upgrade on Levert, for sure. But also losing Turner would be a huge defensive downgrade, too. In theory, I like the pick, but consider that it would be a player very soon. Would you deal Turner/Levert for Wiggins/Barnes, knowing that you’d be adding enough salary to the books that you would definitely force out one of McConnell/McDermott, maybe both?


If you are rolling with Sabonis the overall composition of the rest of the team has to get more athletic. If you agree with that premise neither McConnell or McDermott are that important


I guess I don’t necessarily agree with the concept that the rest of the team has to get “Uber-athletic”. I think Warren’s return and Oshae’s signing help a ton. A draft pick could too. But, if both McConnell and McDermott walk, you have only the MLE and BAE to possibly replace them. You won’t gain cap space or anything of the sort. :dontknow:

I would agree that Turner for Wiggins makes the team more stylistically athletic. It definitely doesn’t make the team better defensively though. It’s clearly a downgrade, if “getting more athletic” is the goal, especially if Levert (a quite athletic scorer) goes out, too.
I’m not bothered by a possible trade of one of Brogdon/Levert or Sabonis/Turner. Just has to make sense. And, it can’t be “upgrades us defensively at a wing spot” if it really downgrades the roster defensively so much that the Levert to Wiggins upgrade is a massive downgrade on court with Turner gone. If all that makes sense. If you want to acquire Wiggins, that’s fine. Just sell it as “he’s a wing, and we’d have to match salaries, and really we get other stuff that makes us better in the long-run, but worse right now”. Don’t sell it as if it’s upgrading the roster defensively. I’m not sold that Wiggins is really a good defender. I think he’s a worker, there, who looks better when playing next to a Draymond, much like Warren is a worker that looks better defensively next to a Turner.


I’m seeing the team at a crossroads of sorts. Would Pritchard bring yet another coach whose main charge is figure out how to make the Sabonis/Turner thing work? That seems crazy. So I’m saying pick one and that with that choice I say Sabonis. If it’s Sabonis you have to assemble better athletes/defenders or opponents will routinely be scoring 130/night.

The most important component of a Turner trade is long term value. A mid lottery pick seems to be in the ballpark value for Turner and Wiggins seems like a better compliment to Sabonis. Even if you don’t bring back TJ and Doug I’m seeing this depth chart.

C. Sabonis, Bitadze
pF. Warren, Brisset
Sf. Wiggins, J Holiday
Sg. Brogdan, Lamb
Pg. A Holiday, Sumner

Then you have two solid picks in a deep draft. Let’s say for grins Barnes and Mitchel. I like that better than running back Turner/Sabonis again. Much as I like Doug is he playing ahead of that assembly of wings. TJ would be nice but wouldn’t you rather develop Sumner and Mitchell?
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#51 » by Wizop » Mon May 17, 2021 2:42 am

I think Brissett off the bench is a major plus. He can play the 4 with either Turner, Sabonis, or Goga. The draft could also give us a 3/4 or a 4/5. It's good the draft comes before we negotiate with Doug so we know what the rookie plays.

I wish I knew the full locker room story. Are there unhappy players that should be moved for that reason alone. I just don't know.



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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#52 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 am

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
If you are rolling with Sabonis the overall composition of the rest of the team has to get more athletic. If you agree with that premise neither McConnell or McDermott are that important


I guess I don’t necessarily agree with the concept that the rest of the team has to get “Uber-athletic”. I think Warren’s return and Oshae’s signing help a ton. A draft pick could too. But, if both McConnell and McDermott walk, you have only the MLE and BAE to possibly replace them. You won’t gain cap space or anything of the sort. :dontknow:

I would agree that Turner for Wiggins makes the team more stylistically athletic. It definitely doesn’t make the team better defensively though. It’s clearly a downgrade, if “getting more athletic” is the goal, especially if Levert (a quite athletic scorer) goes out, too.
I’m not bothered by a possible trade of one of Brogdon/Levert or Sabonis/Turner. Just has to make sense. And, it can’t be “upgrades us defensively at a wing spot” if it really downgrades the roster defensively so much that the Levert to Wiggins upgrade is a massive downgrade on court with Turner gone. If all that makes sense. If you want to acquire Wiggins, that’s fine. Just sell it as “he’s a wing, and we’d have to match salaries, and really we get other stuff that makes us better in the long-run, but worse right now”. Don’t sell it as if it’s upgrading the roster defensively. I’m not sold that Wiggins is really a good defender. I think he’s a worker, there, who looks better when playing next to a Draymond, much like Warren is a worker that looks better defensively next to a Turner.


I’m seeing the team at a crossroads of sorts. Would Pritchard bring yet another coach whose main charge is figure out how to make the Sabonis/Turner thing work? That seems crazy. So I’m saying pick one and that with that choice I say Sabonis. If it’s Sabonis you have to assemble better athletes/defenders or opponents will routinely be scoring 130/night.

The most important component of a Turner trade is long term value. A mid lottery pick seems to be in the ballpark value for Turner and Wiggins seems like a better compliment to Sabonis. Even if you don’t bring back TJ and Doug I’m seeing this depth chart.

C. Sabonis, Bitadze
pF. Warren, Brisset
Sf. Wiggins, J Holiday
Sg. Brogdan, Lamb
Pg. A Holiday, Sumner

Then you have two solid picks in a deep draft. Let’s say for grins Barnes and Mitchel. I like that better than running back Turner/Sabonis again. Much as I like Doug is he playing ahead of that assembly of wings. TJ would be nice but wouldn’t you rather develop Sumner and Mitchell?


What’s most interesting to me, unfortunately has no bearing to what the Pacers are going to do :lol: I’d have dealt guys every year for draft picks!

Realistically though, I think the big thing is that’s a roster that likely tops out at the competing for the play-in, again. Top ends dropped off, but bottom has probably raised a bit. Could absolutely collapse if Aaron keeps playing as he has this year. But I guess Mitchell would be thrown to the Wolves? I’m not sure Sumner needs developing, so much as he’s earned his spot in the rotation. Most importantly, though, you’ve got no Curry/Green to keep Wiggins in line. What’s to stop him from returning to his hero-ball focused offense only play from Minnesota?
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#53 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 17, 2021 2:48 am

Wizop wrote:I think Brissett off the bench is a major plus. He can play the 4 with either Turner, Sabonis, or Goga. The draft could also give us a 3/4 or a 4/5. It's good the draft comes before we negotiate with Doug so we know what the rookie plays.

I wish I knew the full locker room story. Are there unhappy players that should be moved for that reason alone. I just don't know.



Sent from my phone.


Adding Brissett has really helped a lot of the possibilities this offseason. There’s a lot more flexibility to play he and Warren at the 4 if we make a move, so that we’re not locked into any trade returns, if we make any.

As for Doug, I’d agree. McConnell is definitely the priority for me, even if we draft a young PG for the bench. I’d focus at that point on moving Aaron/Lamb, and Sumner would be the backup 2 guard. Even Kelan’s play has been an interesting note to watch as he could kind of replace a Doug or Lamb as a bench wing.

Obviously, all this changes based on what we find out about the locker room.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#54 » by Topofthekey » Mon May 17, 2021 2:54 am

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:
If you are rolling with Sabonis the overall composition of the rest of the team has to get more athletic. If you agree with that premise neither McConnell or McDermott are that important


I guess I don’t necessarily agree with the concept that the rest of the team has to get “Uber-athletic”. I think Warren’s return and Oshae’s signing help a ton. A draft pick could too. But, if both McConnell and McDermott walk, you have only the MLE and BAE to possibly replace them. You won’t gain cap space or anything of the sort. :dontknow:

I would agree that Turner for Wiggins makes the team more stylistically athletic. It definitely doesn’t make the team better defensively though. It’s clearly a downgrade, if “getting more athletic” is the goal, especially if Levert (a quite athletic scorer) goes out, too.
I’m not bothered by a possible trade of one of Brogdon/Levert or Sabonis/Turner. Just has to make sense. And, it can’t be “upgrades us defensively at a wing spot” if it really downgrades the roster defensively so much that the Levert to Wiggins upgrade is a massive downgrade on court with Turner gone. If all that makes sense. If you want to acquire Wiggins, that’s fine. Just sell it as “he’s a wing, and we’d have to match salaries, and really we get other stuff that makes us better in the long-run, but worse right now”. Don’t sell it as if it’s upgrading the roster defensively. I’m not sold that Wiggins is really a good defender. I think he’s a worker, there, who looks better when playing next to a Draymond, much like Warren is a worker that looks better defensively next to a Turner.


I’m seeing the team at a crossroads of sorts. Would Pritchard bring yet another coach whose main charge is figure out how to make the Sabonis/Turner thing work? That seems crazy. So I’m saying pick one and that with that choice I say Sabonis. If it’s Sabonis you have to assemble better athletes/defenders or opponents will routinely be scoring 130/night.

The most important component of a Turner trade is long term value. A mid lottery pick seems to be in the ballpark value for Turner and Wiggins seems like a better compliment to Sabonis. Even if you don’t bring back TJ and Doug I’m seeing this depth chart.

C. Sabonis, Bitadze
pF. Warren, Brisset
Sf. Wiggins, J Holiday
Sg. Brogdan, Lamb
Pg. A Holiday, Sumner

Then you have two solid picks in a deep draft. Let’s say for grins Barnes and Mitchel. I like that better than running back Turner/Sabonis again. Much as I like Doug is he playing ahead of that assembly of wings. TJ would be nice but wouldn’t you rather develop Sumner and Mitchell?

I guess the question is what can the team obtain by trading Myles

I'm OK with the trade you suggested, but only if the Wolves pick conveys at #4, for the chance to draft Jalen Green, who I think has star potential

I don't think trading Myles for someone else, like Barnes, helps the team really

Myles is already a difference maker on defense, whereas the rookie that you draft with that pick, you're hoping that he becomes a difference maker like Myles is

If it's not possible to trade Myles (or Domas, whichever one Warriors prefer really) for Jalen Green for whatever reason (pick didn't convey, pick conveyed outside of top 5, etc) then I would look to trade for players instead of draft picks, if the opportunity presents itself

For example, I read about Siakam being not too happy with Nick Nurse, so maybe some kind of Domas/Myles + #13 for Siakam + #7 would be possible

Alternatively, Lavine might get sick of losing with the Bulls, so maybe there's a possibility of something like LeVert + Warren for Lavine + Patrick Williams

If Pelicans want to trade Ingram, maybe we can offer Warren + Brogdon

Or maybe 76ers get demolished in the playoffs and Simmons becomes available in a trade

The team just got to be a bit patient and look for the right trade
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#55 » by 8305 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am

Is Wiggins solid year a entirely a function Green and Curry keeping him in line or is he figuring things out? Probably not 100% of either.

If we could get Siakum for either Sabonis or Turner I think you do that. Siakum seems like a great next to either.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#56 » by Topofthekey » Mon May 17, 2021 1:57 pm

8305 wrote:Is Wiggins solid year a entirely a function Green and Curry keeping him in line or is he figuring things out? Probably not 100% of either.

If we could get Siakum for either Sabonis or Turner I think you do that. Siakum seems like a great next to either.

I think it's just the result of constantly being shouted at by Draymond Green

Yes, Siakam does look like he could be a fit next to either Domas or Myles

The problem is he's overpaid, so you'd be sacrificing roster flexibility by taking him on

Also, he's older and isn't as good a player as either Domas or Myles, so there's the issue needing to make up lost value if you trade either of them for him

I'd still do the swap, especially if Raptors are willing to give us their pick outright, without needing our own pick in return
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#57 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 pm

8305 wrote:Is Wiggins solid year a entirely a function Green and Curry keeping him in line or is he figuring things out? Probably not 100% of either.


I would agree, but It seems like he’s a guy that needs certain vet leaders to reach that type of level consistently. He butted heads with Butler, but seemed to fall in line in GSW with a veteran coach, and clear vet leaders like Curry and Green to push him to play a certain role. New team and whatnot, is there a belief he’s locked into that attitude the rest of his career, or will he push to be the #1 guy again, like he was always doing in Minnesota, and give up on defense some to focus more on offense again? It’s a worry.


If we could get Siakum for either Sabonis or Turner I think you do that. Siakum seems like a great next to either.


I like Siakam a lot, but I’m a little concerned of how his shooting fell of a cliff, essentially the last two seasons (or rather this season and the 2nd half of last season), and his cap numbers of $33m/$35m/$38m the next 3 years are huge, and would make team building quite difficult. I don’t know that we’ve build up the draft talent to have super cheap players around him going forward that we could afford to keep and maintain a tax-free team with talent. And, I’m not sure which player we would have going forward. The 55/37/79 shooter from 2 years ago? The 45/36/79 shooter of last year? Or the 45/30/83 shooter from this year?
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#58 » by 8305 » Mon May 17, 2021 6:49 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Is Wiggins solid year a entirely a function Green and Curry keeping him in line or is he figuring things out? Probably not 100% of either.


I would agree, but It seems like he’s a guy that needs certain vet leaders to reach that type of level consistently. He butted heads with Butler, but seemed to fall in line in GSW with a veteran coach, and clear vet leaders like Curry and Green to push him to play a certain role. New team and whatnot, is there a belief he’s locked into that attitude the rest of his career, or will he push to be the #1 guy again, like he was always doing in Minnesota, and give up on defense some to focus more on offense again? It’s a worry.


If we could get Siakum for either Sabonis or Turner I think you do that. Siakum seems like a great next to either.


I like Siakam a lot, but I’m a little concerned of how his shooting fell of a cliff, essentially the last two seasons (or rather this season and the 2nd half of last season), and his cap numbers of $33m/$35m/$38m the next 3 years are huge, and would make team building quite difficult. I don’t know that we’ve build up the draft talent to have super cheap players around him going forward that we could afford to keep and maintain a tax-free team with talent. And, I’m not sure which player we would have going forward. The 55/37/79 shooter from 2 years ago? The 45/36/79 shooter of last year? Or the 45/30/83 shooter from this year?


Yeah I hear you on both the shooting and the future compensation. There's a little of the Carson Wentz application. If the shooting numbers hadn't fallen off you wouldn't be able to get him for either Turner or Sabonis. As to the future we are moving to a day where we are paying six or seven guys instead of the eight we are paying now. And, that bench will have to be more populated with cheap contracts. Less money going to guys 7 and 8 more money going to guys 1 and 2. Its what the elite teams do.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#59 » by Wizop » Mon May 17, 2021 7:30 pm

8305 wrote:As to the future we are moving to a day where we are paying six or seven guys instead of the eight we are paying now. And, that bench will have to be more populated with cheap contracts. Less money going to guys 7 and 8 more money going to guys 1 and 2. Its what the elite teams do.


It is certainly true that the current elite teams have a couple of max players and a bunch of just guys. I don't know if that works in a small market if it is really true that we aren't a free agent destination but maybe you see Sabonis and LeVert (or whoever) as becoming home grown max players.

I'm not sure you can implement a multiple max contract strategy though without paying tax, and I sort of like the 5 guys at 18 over 2 at 36 and 3 at 6. its probably not a good time to push long term numbers around though until we get a post-covid cap.
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Re: Moving Forward 

Post#60 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 pm

8305 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Is Wiggins solid year a entirely a function Green and Curry keeping him in line or is he figuring things out? Probably not 100% of either.


I would agree, but It seems like he’s a guy that needs certain vet leaders to reach that type of level consistently. He butted heads with Butler, but seemed to fall in line in GSW with a veteran coach, and clear vet leaders like Curry and Green to push him to play a certain role. New team and whatnot, is there a belief he’s locked into that attitude the rest of his career, or will he push to be the #1 guy again, like he was always doing in Minnesota, and give up on defense some to focus more on offense again? It’s a worry.


If we could get Siakum for either Sabonis or Turner I think you do that. Siakum seems like a great next to either.


I like Siakam a lot, but I’m a little concerned of how his shooting fell of a cliff, essentially the last two seasons (or rather this season and the 2nd half of last season), and his cap numbers of $33m/$35m/$38m the next 3 years are huge, and would make team building quite difficult. I don’t know that we’ve build up the draft talent to have super cheap players around him going forward that we could afford to keep and maintain a tax-free team with talent. And, I’m not sure which player we would have going forward. The 55/37/79 shooter from 2 years ago? The 45/36/79 shooter of last year? Or the 45/30/83 shooter from this year?


Yeah I hear you on both the shooting and the future compensation. There's a little of the Carson Wentz application. If the shooting numbers hadn't fallen off you wouldn't be able to get him for either Turner or Sabonis. As to the future we are moving to a day where we are paying six or seven guys instead of the eight we are paying now. And, that bench will have to be more populated with cheap contracts. Less money going to guys 7 and 8 more money going to guys 1 and 2. Its what the elite teams do.


I don't love the Wentz acquisition either :lol:

But, I think prime Siakam is probably worth about prime Sabonis. You could still net him, value wise. You'd just feel more comfortable about it. Or rather, I would. :wink:

I get the "condensing" of salaries, but instead of being able to plan ahead for it, we'd have already had to plan ahead for it starting the last 2 years, as we'd be condensing the salaries now, know what I mean?

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