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Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:45 pm
by Tom White
Moooose wrote:2) Mike D' Antoni - If Bjorkgren is to be fired, I would like the Pacers to go all-in and hire MDA and see how a dynamic mind matches a dynamic team.
Great. But who is this dynamic team you speak of?
3) Mike Budenholzer - (if he gets fired by Milwaukee). I honestly believe Milwaukee's problem of not being able to advance into the conference finals is more on its key players than with coaching.
You may have something there. Milwaukee has a habit of folding like a cheap tent in the playoffs.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:45 pm
by Scoot McGroot
NYG wrote:Wizop wrote:8305 wrote:
I don't have any one player in mind. I'm not even at the point of pounding the table demanding a Turbonis trade. I'm just open to the possibility that is we don't want to continue to play them together for big minutes, Sabonis could be the better player to trade. But I will not be upset if we keep them both or trade either one of them.
But for purposes only of illustration and I know it is impossible, say we were able to acquire Tatum, would you prefer to play Turner and Tatum or Sabonis and Tatum? I can make a strong case for Turner. he provides rim protection on defense and won't be in the way of drives on offense.
as for rebounding, I think the problem is as much scheme as it is talent. Sabonis did way outrebound Turner but he was inside on offense while Turner was outside plus Turner takes himself out of rebounding position on defense by moving to block shots. Note that McConnell got way more than his share of rebounds even though I doubt he can jump higher than any other player on the roster.
Not a Celtics fan, but if Boston offered the following, would you have interest...
Kemba Walker, Aaron Nesmith, Robert Williams III, Payton Pritchard, 16th Overall and something in between Jrue and Harden in terms of pick return for Domantas Sabonis, Malcolm Brogdon and Jeremy Lamb?
I responded in the T&T thread, but it doesn’t do anything for the Pacers. The pieces aren’t what we’d be looking for (no defensive distributing PG, we wouldn’t need another young center with Myles and Goga, Boston’s picks would be insanely devalued by giving them two huge pieces they need, etc).
At the least, really need to look at trying to acquire one premiere Pacer at a time. Across the forums, these attempts to get both a Brogdon and a Turner or Sabonis at the same time really come off as if they’re paying a fair value for one of the guys, or a bit overpay, but then wanting the other one for free while adding in a MASSIVE contract we don’t feel comfortable with like Kemba, too.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:19 pm
by Moooose
Tom White wrote:Moooose wrote:2) Mike D' Antoni - If Bjorkgren is to be fired, I would like the Pacers to go all-in and hire MDA and see how a dynamic mind matches a dynamic team.
Great. But who is this dynamic team you speak of?
The 2020-2021 Pre-season Pacers, of course.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:29 pm
by Tom White
Moooose wrote:The 2020-2021 Pre-season Pacers, of course.
HA! Well done.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:01 pm
by 8305
Should we at least kick the idea of Ben Simmons around. If he can be fixed you might be buying low this off season. I think it would take a multi team trade to absorb our value. Say we throw Sabonis, Levert, Lamb into the mix maybe throw in pick 13.
C. Turner
F. Simmons
F. Warren
G. Brogdan
G. Holiday, Sumner
Resign Doug McD
Open up the floor, surround him with shooters. That lineup would be pretty scary defensively.
Crazy?
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:05 pm
by Wizop
8305 wrote:Should we at least kick the idea of Ben Simmons around.
I don't like his contract but if we're kicking tires, I'd rather see him with Sabonis than Turner. Simmons would bring defense so I'd keep our offensive center.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:46 pm
by Tom White
8305 wrote:Crazy?
Well......since you asked. HA!
I want nothing to do with Simmons. You might as well only have four guys on the floor when playing on the offensive end of the court. If he can be "fixed", let someone else try it.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:03 pm
by 8305
Wizop wrote:8305 wrote:Should we at least kick the idea of Ben Simmons around.
I don't like his contract but if we're kicking tires, I'd rather see him with Sabonis than Turner. Simmons would bring defense so I'd keep our offensive center.
I think Simmons and Sabonis are redundant on offense. If you're going to bring him in give him the best opportunity to succeed and for me that would mean get that center out of his way, surround him with shooters and create an elite defensive team.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:25 pm
by Scoot McGroot
8305 wrote:Wizop wrote:8305 wrote:Should we at least kick the idea of Ben Simmons around.
I don't like his contract but if we're kicking tires, I'd rather see him with Sabonis than Turner. Simmons would bring defense so I'd keep our offensive center.
I think Simmons and Sabonis are redundant on offense. If you're going to bring him in give him the best opportunity to succeed and for me that would mean get that center out of his way, surround him with shooters and create an elite defensive team.
I would tend to agree here. Though, it would clearly require a 3 team (or more) trade, as there’s no way Philly should value Sabonis with Embiid/Harris already there. They’ve learned that Harris should be played at the 4, instead of the 3.
Realistically, Philly would/should be after Malcolm Brogdon, though if we acquired Simmons, Brogdon would be a key piece to keep around Simmons. Salary wise, it’s also tough that if we dealt Lamb with a Sabonis or Brogdon, we’d box ourselves out at not realistically having the ability to keep Warren at year’s end. I think it’d have to be one of the bigs (Sabonis or Turner) and one of the guards (Brogdon or Levert) for Simmons, but with a cost-controlled type guard coming back, too.
I think Philly is going to have to move on from Simmons this year. I don’t think they’re going to have to fire sell him though.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:48 pm
by Wizop
8305 wrote:Wizop wrote:8305 wrote:Should we at least kick the idea of Ben Simmons around.
I don't like his contract but if we're kicking tires, I'd rather see him with Sabonis than Turner. Simmons would bring defense so I'd keep our offensive center.
I think Simmons and Sabonis are redundant on offense. If you're going to bring him in give him the best opportunity to succeed and for me that would mean get that center out of his way, surround him with shooters and create an elite defensive team.
I'm rethinking this after reading a piece on theAthletic. maybe Simmons would need to play in the post on offense with Turner outside. but maybe he just doesn't fit.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:53 pm
by 8305
Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:Wizop wrote:
I don't like his contract but if we're kicking tires, I'd rather see him with Sabonis than Turner. Simmons would bring defense so I'd keep our offensive center.
I think Simmons and Sabonis are redundant on offense. If you're going to bring him in give him the best opportunity to succeed and for me that would mean get that center out of his way, surround him with shooters and create an elite defensive team.
I would tend to agree here. Though, it would clearly require a 3 team (or more) trade, as there’s no way Philly should value Sabonis with Embiid/Harris already there. They’ve learned that Harris should be played at the 4, instead of the 3.
Realistically, Philly would/should be after Malcolm Brogdon, though if we acquired Simmons, Brogdon would be a key piece to keep around Simmons. Salary wise, it’s also tough that if we dealt Lamb with a Sabonis or Brogdon, we’d box ourselves out at not realistically having the ability to keep Warren at year’s end. I think it’d have to be one of the bigs (Sabonis or Turner) and one of the guards (Brogdon or Levert) for Simmons, but with a cost-controlled type guard coming back, too.
I think Philly is going to have to move on from Simmons this year. I don’t think they’re going to have to fire sell him though.
I don't know that any of the value/salary pieces I'd be willing to give make any sense for Philly hence the need for at least three teams. Do you think value corresponding with Sabonis, Levert, Lamb and pick 13 is fire sale value?
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:05 pm
by Wizop
8305 wrote:I don't know that any of the value/salary pieces I'd be willing to give make any sense for Philly hence the need for at least three teams. Do you think value corresponding with Sabonis, Levert, Lamb and pick 13 is fire sale value?
Brogdon and Lamb for Simmons passes the trade checker but someone would probably demand a pick be included. I'd rather trade Sabonis to a third team and keep Brogdon but maybe the right answer is just say no.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:26 am
by Pacers Forever
I want no part of Ben Simmons. With a new coaching staff Pacers need to be fixing their own player issues/fit and not take on a possible project of fixing a highly paid player. Let another team take this gamble. Pacers need solid players for less issues to get back competing with the best.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:43 pm
by jk31
Coach: Well I am too late for that. But I actually hoped for a Carlisle reuinon.
Draft: Franz Wagner!
Trade For: A tall wing to play the 3/4 next to Myles Turner
Trade Away: Domantas Sabonis
Re-Sign: T.J. McConnell
Sign: I honestly don't really know who is a free agent this season.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:58 pm
by Pacercoltboiler
jk31 wrote:Coach: Well I am too late for that. But I actually hoped for a Carlisle reuinon.
Draft: Franz Wagner!
Trade For: A tall wing to play the 3/4 next to Myles Turner
Trade Away: Domantas Sabonis
Re-Sign: T.J. McConnell
Sign: I honestly don't really know who is a free agent this season.
I like the idea of two 3 and D guys around miles with guards who can score off the dribble. I think you need four scorers to win. I'm really torn because Sabonis is better than a point guard at getting easy shots. If Sabonis and LeVert are in the game at the same time, our scoring percentage would stay insane. If you had to build around Sabonis and LeVert, what would you do? A pure D guy like Usman Garuba who has a 7-3 wingspan would be nice, and trading Truner and Brogdon for a guy Like Moses Moody and Davion Mitchell would give us some much needed athleticism. I like Myles, but Sabonis is too good to move.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:00 am
by jk31
Pacercoltboiler wrote:jk31 wrote:Coach: Well I am too late for that. But I actually hoped for a Carlisle reuinon.
Draft: Franz Wagner!
Trade For: A tall wing to play the 3/4 next to Myles Turner
Trade Away: Domantas Sabonis
Re-Sign: T.J. McConnell
Sign: I honestly don't really know who is a free agent this season.
I like the idea of two 3 and D guys around miles with guards who can score off the dribble. I think you need four scorers to win. I'm really torn because Sabonis is better than a point guard at getting easy shots. If Sabonis and LeVert are in the game at the same time, our scoring percentage would stay insane. If you had to build around Sabonis and LeVert, what would you do? A pure D guy like Usman Garuba who has a 7-3 wingspan would be nice, and trading Truner and Brogdon for a guy Like Moses Moody and Davion Mitchell would give us some much needed athleticism. I like Myles, but Sabonis is too good to move.
That would be my ideal lineup: 2 guards, two wings and Myles in the middle. Ideally those 4 "small" players are able to get buckets.
I like both Sabonis and Turner. But I think we definitely need to let go one of them and to be honest, I think a team with Turner as their Center + a lineup like you stated will be much more effective than something with Sabonis as the lone center. Such a team in my opinion will never win anything. Sabonis is too much of a liability on defense for that. Yes, he is really, really good on offense and a joy to watch there, but Turner is similarly elite on defense but doesn't hurt the offense like Sabonis hurts the defense.
Also, Sabonis combination of skill and contract should make him a nice trade target for many teams. Just watch what Nikola Vucevic netted who is a much older and more expensive player.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:13 pm
by Pacers Forever
I don’t recall if it was this thread anyway Tom asked what about Hardaway Jr. I’d take a flyer on him if he can play defense and we for some idiotic reason trade away T J Warren. Otherwise if he’s a SF were pretty set at that position with Holiday as a backup and others. The guys I’d really like to pursue are Anunoby, J Collins, Miles Bridges, PJ Washington, Quickly, Bullock, Corey Joseph, Jeff Green, and Kelly Olynyk. Only would want these players if they’d fit in and play defense if we get crazy and trade out a lot of our roster. I’m sure I’ve missed some other good players and didn’t list any superstars because I don’t know what team wants to part with a superstar. Edit I left off Kleber.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:23 pm
by Tom White
Pacers Forever wrote:I don’t recall if it was this thread anyway Tom asked what about Hardaway Jr. I’d take a flyer on him if he can play defense and we for some idiotic reason trade away T J Warren. Otherwise if he’s a SF were pretty set at that position with Holiday as a backup and others. The guys I’d really like to pursue are Anunoby, J Collins, Miles Bridges, PJ Washington, Quickly, Bullock, Corey Joseph, Jeff Green, and Kelly Olynyk. Only would want these players if they’d fit in and play defense if we get crazy and trade out a lot of our roster. I’m sure I’ve missed some other good players and didn’t list any superstars because I don’t know what team wants to part with a superstar. Edit I left off Kleber.
As I remember, my post was in response to someone who was looking at which current Dallas player Carlisle might want to bring here (or something like that.........or maybe that isn't even close
). Anyway, I was sort of piggy-backing on the idea of Carlisle bringing in a player he is familiar with. Not really endorsing that move or disliking it.
I agree with you about Anunoby. Man, I wish there was a way.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:51 pm
by 8305
Hearing that Carlisle was effusive in his praise of Myles Turner and hearing J Michael indicate that around the league Myles is viewed as the more value player compared to Domas, I'll offer the following:
Pacers Trade Sabonis to the KIngs for Bagley and pick 9. Its what Pritchard has been doing well. Acquiring guys who were drafted high and underperformed their draft position. Provide them with an improved opportunity and environment.
Re: Realistically, Who Do You Want To...
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:08 pm
by boomershadow
8305 wrote:Hearing that Carlisle was effusive in his praise of Myles Turner and hearing J Michael indicate that around the league Myles is viewed as the more value player compared to Domas, I'll offer the following:
Pacers Trade Sabonis to the KIngs for Bagley and pick 9. Its what Pritchard has been doing well. Acquiring guys who were drafted high and underperformed their draft position. Provide them with an improved opportunity and environment.
I'm not sure I believe that about Sabonis. Our asking price for Sabonis would almost certainly be higher than for Turner.
It is possible more teams might be interested in Turner because they already have a core, and Turner is a player they could add that wouldn't take the ball away from their main options on offense. That's certainly why Boston would have been interested in Turner. There are probably others.