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Draft prospects scheduled

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#41 » by Wizop » Wed Jul 7, 2021 1:02 pm

Moooose wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Moooose wrote:
Carlisle is in Indiana and checked out the Moody / Jones workout today. It was in in the Pacers facebook page.


I think that’s the point he’s raising.


Oh, my bad.


no problem. I was just wondering if they'd delayed this workout until Carlisle was back and could watch it. pure speculation on my part.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#42 » by Moooose » Wed Jul 7, 2021 4:23 pm

Wizop wrote:
Moooose wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I think that’s the point he’s raising.


Oh, my bad.


no problem. I was just wondering if they'd delayed this workout until Carlisle was back and could watch it. pure speculation on my part.


Good speculation. It also makes a ton of sense as these are the best prospects that could be available at 13th. The social media posting for the third workout was also delayed for some reasons. I was waiting for a couple of days for the announcement after the 2nd batch of workouts.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#43 » by Moooose » Wed Jul 7, 2021 5:15 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
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Got excited a bit when I saw this list. Carlisle has to see Jackson, IMO. Could be our version of Dorian Finney-Smith.

But first, my take on the 3rd workout prospects:

Moses Moody - hands down elite shooter, but not an elite scorer. Potential is subjective and I can see it the reason for him being ranked high in the draft boards. He's good but he's got some obvious limitations which I think if he can cross them all out, he could be an all-star. I have Moody around the 12-15 range. He's very much like Wayne Ellington to me RIGHT NOW. He's slow and is limited to being a catch and shoot kind of guy. Not really someone who will look for ways to score, not yet. His lack of speed concerns me. Sure, he's got good wingspan, but he would be guarding athletic guards every night.

Kai Jones - I like this kid a lot. But I think unless he can play 4, or we move a center out to make space for him, I really don't see the Pacers drafting him. What I like about him is that he is very quick for a big man, and has a lot of "guard" qualities (ala Jonathan Bender). He's got good handles, probably better than Moody's and can shoot. Really immature and inconsistent on most nights though. The Jaxson Hayes comparison isn't close, IMO. Hayes can't shoot as well as Jones does.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#44 » by Wizop » Wed Jul 7, 2021 8:17 pm

Moooose wrote:Kai Jones - I like this kid a lot. But I think unless he can play 4, or we move a center out to make space for him, I really don't see the Pacers drafting him.


I have him as a 4 based solely on what I've read online. I agree that the coaches would probably need to see him as a 4 for us to take him unless they see him as insurance in case a Turbonis trade becomes smart.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#45 » by Moooose » Thu Jul 8, 2021 1:10 am

I know nothing of Alston Jr., Mangas, and Terry Taylor. What makes this group exciting are Isaiah Jackson and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl. Both have excellent defensive potentials, especially Jackson.

Isaiah Jackson - My favorite to be our 13th pick, so far. I don't think he'd stand out in individual workouts but I hope he'd be able to show that he can shoot. He's a work in progress on offense but his defensive side is on the upper tier. Really high motor and this is a kid who puts great effort every night. He's a JaKarr Sampson kind of guy and I think he'd fit in well with the roster. We have a lot of options on offense and this guy won't demand the ball. Also, maybe Myles can benefit playing with him on practices. Teach him what effort is like. Larry Bird will love this kid.

Jeremiah Robinson - Earl - one of the possible steals of the draft, IMO. I enjoy watching Villanova and the guys they produce almost always turn out fine. It's hard to put a single comparison for this guy, he's a forward with footwork and low-post game like a 90's center, excellent mid-range game that can extend seamlessly into the perimeter, knows verticality on defense. He's like a mix of Shane Battier, Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Rudy Gay, Julius Randle. Someone in that same mold but with promising low post game. Hope we can get him in the 2nd round.

Ayo Dosunmu - One of the guys who's getting a lot of hype and I don't really understand why. He's not overly athletic, doesn't look to be a promising offensive threat as well. I don't know.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#46 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 2:11 am

No way Robinson-Earl falls to 54. That's our first 2nd round pick. He probably goes in the 20s.

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#47 » by Moooose » Thu Jul 8, 2021 3:31 am

Wizop wrote:No way Robinson-Earl falls to 54. That's our first 2nd round pick. He probably goes in the 20s.

Sent from my phone.


54 is way too low, I agree. We can (but probably won't) trade up for him in the second round. I have him as a borderline 1st rounder as I originally see his "realistic" outlook being someone like Eric Paschall or a Georges Niang. Depends on the team picking him up though
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#48 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 12:14 pm

Moooose wrote:
Wizop wrote:No way Robinson-Earl falls to 54. That's our first 2nd round pick. He probably goes in the 20s.

Sent from my phone.


54 is way too low, I agree. We can (but probably won't) trade up for him in the second round. I have him as a borderline 1st rounder as I originally see his "realistic" outlook being someone like Eric Paschall or a Georges Niang. Depends on the team picking him up though
I think Kispert could also be a Niang or a Morrison - good shooters but . . .

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#49 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 1:47 pm

Moooose wrote:
Isaiah Jackson - My favorite to be our 13th pick, so far. I don't think he'd stand out in individual workouts but I hope he'd be able to show that he can shoot. He's a work in progress on offense but his defensive side is on the upper tier. Really high motor and this is a kid who puts great effort every night. He's a JaKarr Sampson kind of guy and I think he'd fit in well with the roster. We have a lot of options on offense and this guy won't demand the ball. Also, maybe Myles can benefit playing with him on practices. Teach him what effort is like. Larry Bird will love this kid..


2 things.

1. Larry Bird isn’t part of the franchise, legally speaking. He’s not a decision maker. He’s a friend, and we occasionally reach out to him, but I don’t believe he has any formal position with the franchise at this time.

2. I’ve never seen Myles to be an effort issue. He’s a runner, who’s attempting to be everywhere at once. I’ve not once seen him come off the court and think that he wasn’t giving 100% effort, so this confuses me. Really, with this current roster, I can’t really think of anyone that I’d say had an effort issue, other than Levert and Lamb, but only on defense and only sometimes. Though it also could be pretty easily explained away as confusion from the poor defensive calls that Bjorkgren would make on the fly and not understanding where to be.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#50 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 1:48 pm

Wizop wrote:
Moooose wrote:
Wizop wrote:No way Robinson-Earl falls to 54. That's our first 2nd round pick. He probably goes in the 20s.

Sent from my phone.


54 is way too low, I agree. We can (but probably won't) trade up for him in the second round. I have him as a borderline 1st rounder as I originally see his "realistic" outlook being someone like Eric Paschall or a Georges Niang. Depends on the team picking him up though
I think Kispert could also be a Niang or a Morrison - good shooters but . . .

Sent from my phone.


Didn’t Kispert grade out MUCH better than either of a Niang or Morrison at the draft combine? He’s much more of an athlete, and likely a much better defender than either of those two. I’m not saying he’s going to be a good defender, but I’m not sure he’ll be a negative there.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#51 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 1:56 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Didn’t Kispert grade out MUCH better than either of a Niang or Morrison at the draft combine?


I could be underrating him. I'm going more by what I saw in the tourney than stats at the combine. mostly I don't see him as a great fit unless maybe both Doug and Lamb are gone.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#52 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 1:58 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Didn’t Kispert grade out MUCH better than either of a Niang or Morrison at the draft combine?


I could be underrating him. I'm going more by what I saw in the tourney than stats at the combine. mostly I don't see him as a great fit unless maybe both Doug and Lamb are gone.


I certainly can’t disagree there.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#53 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 2:00 pm

Nice article in the Star on the kid from Indiana Wesleyan. I'd give him an Exhibit 10 and see what he can do in Fort Wayne.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#54 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 2:04 pm

A human interest story on Mangas:

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#55 » by Moooose » Thu Jul 8, 2021 3:57 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
2 things.

1. Larry Bird isn’t part of the franchise, legally speaking. He’s not a decision maker. He’s a friend, and we occasionally reach out to him, but I don’t believe he has any formal position with the franchise at this time.

2. I’ve never seen Myles to be an effort issue. He’s a runner, who’s attempting to be everywhere at once. I’ve not once seen him come off the court and think that he wasn’t giving 100% effort, so this confuses me. Really, with this current roster, I can’t really think of anyone that I’d say had an effort issue, other than Levert and Lamb, but only on defense and only sometimes. Though it also could be pretty easily explained away as confusion from the poor defensive calls that Bjorkgren would make on the fly and not understanding where to be.


1. Well, I know for a fact that Larry is not part of the franchise anymore. I am just saying that he will love this kid like back in the time of Hansbrough.

2. I beg to differ. Our understanding of what effort should be is different, and I see Myles differently. And I am not the only one who has noticed it for years now. Maybe effort isn't the term for some, maybe willingness is more fitting. But regardless, Myles is short of something. He always looked like he could give more, but doesn't. Or maybe he just can't. Because to me, if he finally decides to go 100%, he'd be on the shortlist for DPOY and he would average more than 6.5 rebounds a game.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#56 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 4:10 pm

Moooose wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
2 things.

1. Larry Bird isn’t part of the franchise, legally speaking. He’s not a decision maker. He’s a friend, and we occasionally reach out to him, but I don’t believe he has any formal position with the franchise at this time.

2. I’ve never seen Myles to be an effort issue. He’s a runner, who’s attempting to be everywhere at once. I’ve not once seen him come off the court and think that he wasn’t giving 100% effort, so this confuses me. Really, with this current roster, I can’t really think of anyone that I’d say had an effort issue, other than Levert and Lamb, but only on defense and only sometimes. Though it also could be pretty easily explained away as confusion from the poor defensive calls that Bjorkgren would make on the fly and not understanding where to be.


1. Well, I know for a fact that Larry is not part of the franchise anymore. I am just saying that he will love this kid like back in the time of Hansbrough.


Oh. Ok. I’m still confused though. He’s not attached to the franchise, so why would it matter if he’d like a guy or not? He’s not in the draft room. He’s not affiliated. He’s not a decision maker. Why does it matter? He’s just a distant friend and fan at this point. :dontknow:


2. I beg to differ. Our understanding of what effort should be is different, and I see Myles differently. And I am not the only one who has noticed it for years now. Maybe effort isn't the term for some, maybe willingness is more fitting. But regardless, Myles is short of something. He always looked like he could give more, but doesn't. Or maybe he just can't. Because to me, if he finally decides to go 100%, he'd be on the shortlist for DPOY and he would average more than 6.5 rebounds a game.


I definitely don’t see this in any way. Is it that he blocks out instead of attacks rebounds? Or that he doesn’t just attack every shot, but keeps on his feet and defends other options at the same time (kind of like a defensive end defending against the option in football)? I’ve not ever questioned his effort or motor, or really ever seen anyone else do so, so this is all new to me.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#57 » by Moooose » Thu Jul 8, 2021 4:37 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Oh. Ok. I’m still confused though. He’s not attached to the franchise, so why would it matter if he’d like a guy or not? He’s not in the draft room. He’s not affiliated. He’s not a decision maker. Why does it matter? He’s just a distant friend and fan at this point. :dontknow:


I definitely don’t see this in any way. Is it that he blocks out instead of attacks rebounds? Or that he doesn’t just attack every shot, but keeps on his feet and defends other options at the same time (kind of like a defensive end defending against the option in football)? I’ve not ever questioned his effort or motor, or really ever seen anyone else do so, so this is all new to me.


It wouldn't and shouldn't matter. I am just saying Larry-the-civilian will love that kind of guy. No connection to the former Pacer ties, whatsoever.

Well, a lot of people dislike Myles for it. It's not new, and been going on for years now. Because he can't seem to figure out what he needs to do to be THAT kind of a player. Unless he overcomes whatever it is, no matter how many blocks per game he gets, he will not get the reputation and consideration of being a legit DPOY candidate. Bottom line is, he could be a lot better and many people are expecting him to break that barrier like every year. And yes, since you've mentioned, a lot of times you'd see an opponent get past him for a layup and you'll say to yourself Myles could've gotten that. Slow feet? Slow jumper? Hesitating to commit a foul? Only Myles know. I am pretty sure though, give JaKarr Sampson that size, talent, and physique and he'd probably be an all-star easily.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#58 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 5:15 pm

Moooose wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Oh. Ok. I’m still confused though. He’s not attached to the franchise, so why would it matter if he’d like a guy or not? He’s not in the draft room. He’s not affiliated. He’s not a decision maker. Why does it matter? He’s just a distant friend and fan at this point. :dontknow:


I definitely don’t see this in any way. Is it that he blocks out instead of attacks rebounds? Or that he doesn’t just attack every shot, but keeps on his feet and defends other options at the same time (kind of like a defensive end defending against the option in football)? I’ve not ever questioned his effort or motor, or really ever seen anyone else do so, so this is all new to me.


It wouldn't and shouldn't matter. I am just saying Larry-the-civilian will love that kind of guy. No connection to the former Pacer ties, whatsoever.


Ok. My neighbor would probably like that kind of guy, too! :wink:

Well, a lot of people dislike Myles for it. It's not new, and been going on for years now. Because he can't seem to figure out what he needs to do to be THAT kind of a player. Unless he overcomes whatever it is, no matter how many blocks per game he gets, he will not get the reputation and consideration of being a legit DPOY candidate. Bottom line is, he could be a lot better and many people are expecting him to break that barrier like every year. And yes, since you've mentioned, a lot of times you'd see an opponent get past him for a layup and you'll say to yourself Myles could've gotten that. Slow feet? Slow jumper? Hesitating to commit a foul? Only Myles know. I am pretty sure though, give JaKarr Sampson that size, talent, and physique and he'd probably be an all-star easily.



I can’t recall people disliking Turner for his motor. I’ve really only ever heard people disliking Turner for his lack of rebounding numbers, and because they thought that he’d turn out to be a 20/15 type perennial DPOY type player. His lack of turning into a superstar is what has soured fans on him the most. And that’s realistically not Turner’s fault.

I don’t really agree on the layup comment either. Guys get past him sometimes. That happens in the NBA. Guys get past PG, Kawhi, and Gobert sometimes, too. It happens. It also happens sometimes that you recognize you can’t get to a shot or a guy, so you do the next best thing and hedge your bets to make sure they don’t dish off for an even easier shot. :dontknow:

I also don’t agree that Jakarr has a better motor than Turner. Jakarr just only had 2-5 minutes at a time to play his entire nights worth of energy. Turner is trying to make it 28-35 minutes per night, depending on the night. Look at how TJ McConnell played on nights he played 35 minutes versus the energy he played with on nights he only played 15 minutes. There’s a natural difference there. To me, Sampson played out of control energetic often, while Myles was in control of his energy and focus for the long haul. I guess give Myles Giannis’ athleticism and Myles would be an MVP easily?

Overall, You (the royal you, not you in particular) think what you think. That’s absolutely fine. We all see different things and watch with a slightly different eye. Neither is necessarily more accurate or superior to the other. On the flip side of that, I just really don’t see a lack of effort or motor on Turner’s part. I’ve never doubted Myles’ motor, attitude, or effort myself.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#59 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:09 pm

I think some Pacers fans that are disappointed with Myles is that they remember Jermaine O’Neal and thought that Myles would have a great career like Jermaine did. Of course he’s still got time to find a dominant offensive game. Another thing that might have them upset is that the Pacers maxed out Myles and to be honest he hasn’t performed like a max player. If it wasn’t a max deal at the time it was still too much in my opinion. Is it his fault he got over paid ? NO !
I despise the pro sports pay scales which in turn have made sports tickets and what once was an affordable evening out a little harder for the average fan to stomach. Am I jealous of their money ? Not the least bit. I just don’t think athletes should earn what they do. Do they entertain me ? Sure As much as I love to attend live sporting events I can forfeit that privilege and watch just fine on TV and save $$. I think movie stars or actors and actresses are the biggest examples of ridiculously overpaid people. A few musicians are, but concerts are for the most part still affordable. Ok rant over. :crazy:
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#60 » by Tom White » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:16 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I can’t recall people disliking Turner for his motor. I’ve really only ever heard people disliking Turner for his lack of rebounding numbers....


Turner's rebounding numbers have bugged me too. He seems to be out of position too many times. I suppose that could be a result of many things. Maybe because of who he is on the floor with? Maybe because he is more concerned with position for blocking and not so much the rebound? Maybe the positioning is because of coaching or...? And maybe he just doesn't react quickly.

I think maybe part of it is (other than going after a block) his decision making is not quick. He doesn't react as quickly as some others to what is going on during play. I relate this to his decision making where passing is concerned as well. Because he can be hesitant with the pass, he is not a person you want making the second pass in a "three pass" offensive play. He is better served to be the guy who shoots when he receives the ball, or drives to the basket after getting the ball. If you wait on him to decide where he should pass the ball to, it just doesn't work as well. His slower decision making with the ball is one of the big differences between him and Sabonis.

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