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Draft prospects scheduled

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#61 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:17 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Another thing that might have them upset is that the Pacers maxed out Myles and to be honest he hasn’t performed like a max player. If it wasn’t a max deal at the time it was still too much in my opinion. Is it his fault he got over paid ? NO !
I despise the pro sports pay scales which in turn have made sports tickets and what once was an affordable evening out a little harder for the average fan to stomach.


but he's not getting max money. he's getting "starter's money." all star money is half again more.

when I first started buying Pacer tickets my seats behind the basket cost less than a beer at the game does now. a lot of things have driven that cost up. it's not just player salaries.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#62 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:27 pm

Now for the draft prospects I thought the Kentucky Wildcat (HATE UK) player Jackson was similar to Kai Jones. I’m torn between the two and would be happy with either if picked. Jackson seems to like defense and have a good motor. Not as polished on Defense. I’m not sure about Earl for short. I’d agree that it would be nice to take a flyer on a G league spot for the Mangus kid. Didn’t like the Illinois guard.

Now who I’d like to see the Pacers workout is Kispert, Wagner, Mitchell, Duarte, and Murphy. I don’t think anyone is going to see Giddey per reports.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#63 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:44 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:I think some Pacers fans that are disappointed with Myles is that they remember Jermaine O’Neal and thought that Myles would have a great career like Jermaine did. Of course he’s still got time to find a dominant offensive game. Another thing that might have them upset is that the Pacers maxed out Myles and to be honest he hasn’t performed like a max player. If it wasn’t a max deal at the time it was still too much in my opinion. Is it his fault he got over paid ? NO !
I despise the pro sports pay scales which in turn have made sports tickets and what once was an affordable evening out a little harder for the average fan to stomach. Am I jealous of their money ? Not the least bit. I just don’t think athletes should earn what they do. Do they entertain me ? Sure As much as I love to attend live sporting events I can forfeit that privilege and watch just fine on TV and save $$. I think movie stars or actors and actresses are the biggest examples of ridiculously overpaid people. A few musicians are, but concerts are for the most part still affordable. Ok rant over. :crazy:


Myles got nowhere near a max deal. He got 16.5% of the salary cap in year one of his extension (4/$72m), when his max would’ve been 25% of the cap (in that year, it would’ve been about $27.25m in year one (4/$122m). He got around $50m less than a max.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#64 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:45 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Now for the draft prospects I thought the Kentucky Wildcat (HATE) player Jackson was similar to Kai Jones. I’m torn between the two and would be happy with either if picked. Jackson seems to like defense and have a good motor. Not as polished on Defense. I’m not sure about Earl for short. I’d agree that it would be nice to take a flyer on a G league spot for the Mingus kid. Didn’t like the Illinois guard.

Now who I’d like to see the Pacers workout is Kispert, Wagner, Mitchell, Duarte, and Murphy. I don’t think anyone is going to see Giddey per reports.


Giddey wasn’t named to the Australian National Team, so it’s possible he could pick up some workouts, as his schedule has now freed up considerably.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#65 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:51 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Now for the draft prospects I thought the Kentucky Wildcat (HATE) player Jackson was similar to Kai Jones. I’m torn between the two and would be happy with either if picked.


Duke's Johnson deserves a comparison with those two. so far the best free reviews I've found are the Floor and Ceiling videos on YouTube. Here are URL's.





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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#66 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:59 pm

Here's the other big

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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#67 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Jul 8, 2021 7:10 pm

Yeah I like the floor and ceiling and there’s another one that shows strengths, weaknesses, and need to improve segments. Thanks all for setting me straight on Turner salary but I still believed at the time he was overpaid on that contract. Now it probably doesn’t look as bad because of contract inflation continues year after year.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#68 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 7:17 pm

Pacers Forever wrote:Now it probably doesn’t look as bad because of contract inflation continues year after year.


For sure. We old folks remember John Koncak who signed a deal with Atlanta big enough that people started calling him John Kontrack. a few years later it was quite average.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#69 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 7:32 pm

For what it's worth Chad Ford's Big Board has Wagner 9, J Johnson 12, Jackson 16, and Kai 23. Thor and Robinson-Earl get round 2 grades.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#70 » by Tom White » Thu Jul 8, 2021 7:55 pm

Wizop wrote:For what it's worth Chad Ford's Big Board has Wagner 9, J Johnson 12, Jackson 16, and Kai 23. Thor and Robinson-Earl get round 2 grades.


I understand the clips you posted are just short takes on each player, but after watching those, I can understand why he would rate Wagner above the others. He is better than the others on a "right now" basis. That is not to say the others might not turn out better after a few years.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#71 » by Wizop » Thu Jul 8, 2021 8:28 pm

Tom White wrote:I understand the clips you posted are just short takes on each player, but after watching those, I can understand why he would rate Wagner above the others.


to be clear, the clips and the rankings were made by different people.

when I first started looking at prospects, Wagner was my first choice but now it looks like he won't be there at 13. I heard though that he wasn't a big factor for Germany in the Olympic qualifying rounds. I also wonder why Kai came off the bench at Texas but is ranked way above Brown who started.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#72 » by Moooose » Fri Jul 9, 2021 12:10 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Well, a lot of people dislike Myles for it. It's not new, and been going on for years now. Because he can't seem to figure out what he needs to do to be THAT kind of a player. Unless he overcomes whatever it is, no matter how many blocks per game he gets, he will not get the reputation and consideration of being a legit DPOY candidate. Bottom line is, he could be a lot better and many people are expecting him to break that barrier like every year. And yes, since you've mentioned, a lot of times you'd see an opponent get past him for a layup and you'll say to yourself Myles could've gotten that. Slow feet? Slow jumper? Hesitating to commit a foul? Only Myles know. I am pretty sure though, give JaKarr Sampson that size, talent, and physique and he'd probably be an all-star easily.



I can’t recall people disliking Turner for his motor. I’ve really only ever heard people disliking Turner for his lack of rebounding numbers, and because they thought that he’d turn out to be a 20/15 type perennial DPOY type player. His lack of turning into a superstar is what has soured fans on him the most. And that’s realistically not Turner’s fault.

I don’t really agree on the layup comment either. Guys get past him sometimes. That happens in the NBA. Guys get past PG, Kawhi, and Gobert sometimes, too. It happens. It also happens sometimes that you recognize you can’t get to a shot or a guy, so you do the next best thing and hedge your bets to make sure they don’t dish off for an even easier shot. :dontknow:

I also don’t agree that Jakarr has a better motor than Turner. Jakarr just only had 2-5 minutes at a time to play his entire nights worth of energy. Turner is trying to make it 28-35 minutes per night, depending on the night. Look at how TJ McConnell played on nights he played 35 minutes versus the energy he played with on nights he only played 15 minutes. There’s a natural difference there. To me, Sampson played out of control energetic often, while Myles was in control of his energy and focus for the long haul. I guess give Myles Giannis’ athleticism and Myles would be an MVP easily?

Overall, You (the royal you, not you in particular) think what you think. That’s absolutely fine. We all see different things and watch with a slightly different eye. Neither is necessarily more accurate or superior to the other. On the flip side of that, I just really don’t see a lack of effort or motor on Turner’s part. I’ve never doubted Myles’ motor, attitude, or effort myself.


Well, we can leave it at that. I am tired of the Myles Turner discussions. You can find a lot of it in the facebook pages, for one. But give Myles the same willingness Giannis have and it would yield a very much different result. Maybe we (the ones who think Myles is lacking something) are on the half-full glass perspective about Myles.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#73 » by Moooose » Fri Jul 9, 2021 12:40 am

Wizop wrote:when I first started looking at prospects, Wagner was my first choice but now it looks like he won't be there at 13. I heard though that he wasn't a big factor for Germany in the Olympic qualifying rounds. I also wonder why Kai came off the bench at Texas but is ranked way above Brown who started.


I was also high on Wagner early on, but I think there are sexier prospects than him and so he slid down my list. I like him for his potential to be serviceable. I do think he will fit this team's makeup with the pick and rolls, moving without the ball, passing potentials, etc. Not an outstanding athlete but is a very safe, high floor guy.

On Kai Jones, I think Greg Brown fits better alongside Sims in the starting / strong 5 lineup? Jones average more mpg than Brown though. His skillset for a big man / rarity is very intriguing AND PROMISING and so he scores high on potential alone.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#74 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 9, 2021 2:40 am

Moooose wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Well, a lot of people dislike Myles for it. It's not new, and been going on for years now. Because he can't seem to figure out what he needs to do to be THAT kind of a player. Unless he overcomes whatever it is, no matter how many blocks per game he gets, he will not get the reputation and consideration of being a legit DPOY candidate. Bottom line is, he could be a lot better and many people are expecting him to break that barrier like every year. And yes, since you've mentioned, a lot of times you'd see an opponent get past him for a layup and you'll say to yourself Myles could've gotten that. Slow feet? Slow jumper? Hesitating to commit a foul? Only Myles know. I am pretty sure though, give JaKarr Sampson that size, talent, and physique and he'd probably be an all-star easily.



I can’t recall people disliking Turner for his motor. I’ve really only ever heard people disliking Turner for his lack of rebounding numbers, and because they thought that he’d turn out to be a 20/15 type perennial DPOY type player. His lack of turning into a superstar is what has soured fans on him the most. And that’s realistically not Turner’s fault.

I don’t really agree on the layup comment either. Guys get past him sometimes. That happens in the NBA. Guys get past PG, Kawhi, and Gobert sometimes, too. It happens. It also happens sometimes that you recognize you can’t get to a shot or a guy, so you do the next best thing and hedge your bets to make sure they don’t dish off for an even easier shot. :dontknow:

I also don’t agree that Jakarr has a better motor than Turner. Jakarr just only had 2-5 minutes at a time to play his entire nights worth of energy. Turner is trying to make it 28-35 minutes per night, depending on the night. Look at how TJ McConnell played on nights he played 35 minutes versus the energy he played with on nights he only played 15 minutes. There’s a natural difference there. To me, Sampson played out of control energetic often, while Myles was in control of his energy and focus for the long haul. I guess give Myles Giannis’ athleticism and Myles would be an MVP easily?

Overall, You (the royal you, not you in particular) think what you think. That’s absolutely fine. We all see different things and watch with a slightly different eye. Neither is necessarily more accurate or superior to the other. On the flip side of that, I just really don’t see a lack of effort or motor on Turner’s part. I’ve never doubted Myles’ motor, attitude, or effort myself.


Well, we can leave it at that. I am tired of the Myles Turner discussions. You can find a lot of it in the facebook pages, for one. But give Myles the same willingness Giannis have and it would yield a very much different result. Maybe we (the ones who think Myles is lacking something) are on the half-full glass perspective about Myles.


I hear ya. Hit me on a different day and I’m glass half-empty on Myles. Right now, I’m glass half-full on him.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#75 » by Tom White » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:37 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Moooose wrote:Maybe we (the ones who think Myles is lacking something) are on the half-full glass perspective about Myles.


I hear ya. Hit me on a different day and I’m glass half-empty on Myles. Right now, I’m glass half-full on him.


Maybe all you guys need is a different size glass.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#76 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 9, 2021 2:17 pm

Tom White wrote:Maybe all you guys need is a different size glass.


Just one glass? I think I'd need different glasses for different times in the year. It's summer so I have my smallest glass out and it is overflowing.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#77 » by pacers33granger » Fri Jul 9, 2021 11:45 pm

We should all be concerned about the recent reports, though they aren't surprising. If we are going to waste a lotto pick on a low ceiling win-now player, it makes sense to trade down at least, but we should be swinging. It's not like any rookie will see minutes unless they're super impressive anyways.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#78 » by Wizop » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:08 am

pacers33granger wrote:We should all be concerned about the recent reports, though they aren't surprising. If we are going to waste a lotto pick on a low ceiling win-now player, it makes sense to trade down at least, but we should be swinging. It's not like any rookie will see minutes unless they're super impressive anyways.
Don't you think if we're trading down it's because we like a low floor high ceiling player? I do. I think the safer picks go higher.

My new theory is losing teams must take the BPA, but win now teams can draft for need. I'd say our need is athletic ability more than position except maybe for a top, speedy, backcourt defender.

Sent from my phone.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#79 » by pacers33granger » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 am

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:We should all be concerned about the recent reports, though they aren't surprising. If we are going to waste a lotto pick on a low ceiling win-now player, it makes sense to trade down at least, but we should be swinging. It's not like any rookie will see minutes unless they're super impressive anyways.
Don't you think if we're trading down it's because we like a low floor high ceiling player? I do. I think the safer picks go higher.

My new theory is losing teams must take the BPA, but win now teams can draft for need. I'd say our need is athletic ability more than position except maybe for a top, speedy, backcourt defender.

Sent from my phone.


Reports seem to have us potentially targeting Duarte. So, a high floor, low ceiling guy. Kispert was mentioned before too. So instead of a high upside young prospect like Giddey, Williams, etc. we're apparently looking for someone to contribute.

Frankly, no team should be looking for an instant contributor in the draft. It's a waste.
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Re: Draft prospects scheduled 

Post#80 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:29 am

pacers33granger wrote:We should all be concerned about the recent reports, though they aren't surprising. If we are going to waste a lotto pick on a low ceiling win-now player, it makes sense to trade down at least, but we should be swinging. It's not like any rookie will see minutes unless they're super impressive anyways.


Meh. Could also just be pre-draft value assessments and news gathering time. I don’t know the last guy that was continually mocked or heavily rumored to us and then we actually picked. TJ Leaf wasn’t really. Goga definitely wasn’t. Aaron was a little. Hansbrough definitely was. I bet we want Duarte in for a workout. Maybe we do want him. But maybe he’s a solid safety net if all the other high potential wings we prefer don’t make it through to 13? And then having gathered value judgements from others and having options on the clock to trade back might make sense.

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