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Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#21 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:17 am

The podcast I'm watching is saying when you pick in the lottery you need to play it a little safe. They're saying you go high ceiling low floor in the 20s. That's just the opposite of what some are saying here. I'm not taking sides. Just reporting both strategies.

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#22 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:24 am

Wizop wrote:The podcast I'm watching is saying when you pick in the lottery you need to play it a little safe. They're saying you go high ceiling low floor in the 20s. That's just the opposite of what some are saying here. I'm not taking sides. Just reporting both strategies.

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It depends on what kind of team you are. If you are a team on the rise with a young star, sure, you can play it safe. We aren't that team. We are a falling team. We needed an injection of talent and we got nothing.

Maybe the #31 salvages it?
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#23 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:24 am

Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:I don't hate the player but I do hate the pick. Duarte is a role player who would be a great pick for a contending team. We aren't a contending team. We needed someone with the potential to be a star and Duarte is not that.

Picking Duarte over much younger guys with potential (Keon Johnson, Moses Moody, Jalen Johnson) is just plain stupid, especially when Moody for example is NBA-ready as well.

Just a wasted pick. These are the picks you make at #23, not at #13. I'm sad :(


I’m coming around on Duarte. The man is 24, but he hasn’t been playing basketball terribly long. He’s developed a LOT in the last 2-3 years, and I think he’ll continue to develop quite a bit. I heard Tony East say on his podcast that most guys are valued as being drafted young because as they grow into their body, they’ll explode. Well, Duarte is kind of the inverse. He’s grown, but he still has a LOT of high level learning and teaching to receive, and his skills will likely only get better.


This is the first time I've heard of this "hasn't been playing basketball terribly long" part. How can this be possible, though? Based on what I've read, he played high school basketball which means that he has been playing at least for 8 years.

Even if that's true, his skills are already very polished. How much can he improve his skill level?


Yeah. Started late in high school, so about 8 years. He’s about 5-6 years behind most other, younger, draft picks in terms of time played. And much of that was not at high levels of teaching (unheralded NY high school and JuCo, before Oregon).
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#24 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I’m coming around on Duarte. The man is 24, but he hasn’t been playing basketball terribly long. He’s developed a LOT in the last 2-3 years, and I think he’ll continue to develop quite a bit. I heard Tony East say on his podcast that most guys are valued as being drafted young because as they grow into their body, they’ll explode. Well, Duarte is kind of the inverse. He’s grown, but he still has a LOT of high level learning and teaching to receive, and his skills will likely only get better.


This is the first time I've heard of this "hasn't been playing basketball terribly long" part. How can this be possible, though? Based on what I've read, he played high school basketball which means that he has been playing at least for 8 years.

Even if that's true, his skills are already very polished. How much can he improve his skill level?


Yeah. Started late in high school, so about 8 years. He’s about 5-6 years behind most other, younger, draft picks in terms of time played. And much of that was not at high levels of teaching (unheralded NY high school and JuCo, before Oregon).


Meh. 8 years is a lot. I don't see any avenue for Duarte to become more than a role player.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#25 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:31 am

Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of this "hasn't been playing basketball terribly long" part. How can this be possible, though? Based on what I've read, he played high school basketball which means that he has been playing at least for 8 years.

Even if that's true, his skills are already very polished. How much can he improve his skill level?


Yeah. Started late in high school, so about 8 years. He’s about 5-6 years behind most other, younger, draft picks in terms of time played. And much of that was not at high levels of teaching (unheralded NY high school and JuCo, before Oregon).


Meh. 8 years is a lot. I don't see any avenue for Duarte to become more than a role player.


Kai Jones got held up on the ESPN broadcast for only playing basketball a short time as a guy with a TON to still develop, and I think he had 11 years he’s been playing :dontknow:
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#26 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:36 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Yeah. Started late in high school, so about 8 years. He’s about 5-6 years behind most other, younger, draft picks in terms of time played. And much of that was not at high levels of teaching (unheralded NY high school and JuCo, before Oregon).


Meh. 8 years is a lot. I don't see any avenue for Duarte to become more than a role player.


Kai Jones got held up on the ESPN broadcast for only playing basketball a short time as a guy with a TON to still develop, and I think he had 11 years he’s been playing :dontknow:


Nope. Kai Jones has only been playing for 5 years. He also is a 20 year guy with elite athletic tools. He was a long jumper before he switched to basketball at 15. I didn't want us to pick Kai Jones but one can see the appeal here. Elite athletic tools and has flashed enough skill to make you think that he will become really good if he learns how to play.

Duarte doesn't have these athletic tools. Duarte already knows how to play. What he lacks is upside and that's not going to magically appear.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 am

Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Meh. 8 years is a lot. I don't see any avenue for Duarte to become more than a role player.


Kai Jones got held up on the ESPN broadcast for only playing basketball a short time as a guy with a TON to still develop, and I think he had 11 years he’s been playing :dontknow:


Nope. Kai Jones has only been playing for 5 years. He also is a 20 year guy with elite athletic tools. He was a long jumper before he switched to basketball at 15. I didn't want us to pick Kai Jones but one can see the appeal here. Elite athletic tools and has flashed enough skill to make you think that he will become really good if he learns how to play.

Duarte doesn't have these athletic tools. Duarte already knows how to play. What he lacks is upside and that's not going to magically appear.


Ah. They said on ABC he had been playing around 10 years. He didn’t correct them. Guess he just didn’t hear them. :dontknow:
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#28 » by Tom White » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:45 am

Nuntius wrote:Nope. Kai Jones has only been playing for 5 years. He also is a 20 year guy with elite athletic tools. He was a long jumper before he switched to basketball at 15. I didn't want us to pick Kai Jones but one can see the appeal here. Elite athletic tools and has flashed enough skill to make you think that he will become really good if he learns how to play.

Duarte doesn't have these athletic tools. Duarte already knows how to play. What he lacks is upside and that's not going to magically appear.


Well, we just got our young pup in Isaiah Jackson, so there is that.

Let me add this sort of off-topic bit. I remember a few years ago we got a bit cross-ways over the Hibbert/Bird thing on Pacers Digest. But, I've lurked there a bit recently just to have more Pacers stuff to read, and I think you may be one of the most level-headed people on that site now. Sounds like a back-handed compliment, I know. But it is just intended as a compliment period.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#29 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 am

Tom White wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Nope. Kai Jones has only been playing for 5 years. He also is a 20 year guy with elite athletic tools. He was a long jumper before he switched to basketball at 15. I didn't want us to pick Kai Jones but one can see the appeal here. Elite athletic tools and has flashed enough skill to make you think that he will become really good if he learns how to play.

Duarte doesn't have these athletic tools. Duarte already knows how to play. What he lacks is upside and that's not going to magically appear.


Well, we just got our young pup in Isaiah Jackson, so there is that.


The Jackson pick does make feel a bit better. I probably would have gone Garuba or Thor there over Jackson but it's a fine pick and good value at #22. Raises some positional questions but I do feel better when I pretend that we picked Jackson at #13 and Duarte at #22 :lol:

Tom White wrote:Let me add this sort of off-topic bit. I remember a few years ago we got a bit cross-ways over the Hibbert/Bird thing on Pacers Digest. But, I've lurked there a bit recently just to have more Pacers stuff to read, and I think you may be one of the most level-headed people on that site now. Sounds like a back-handed compliment, I know. But it is just intended as a compliment period.


Thank you. I have, to be honest, I don't quite remember getting at it with you about the Hibbert/Bird thing but that's mostly because I was very vocal about it and I went at it with a number of posters over it :lol:

PS: I do remember you still posting over there, though, and I consider you one of the good contributors as well.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#30 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:12 am

Upon further thought Duarte’s age really isn’t going to be an issue because won’t he be a free agent in 3-4 years ? We’ll have another lottery pick next year according to some posters. Maybe they’ll hit a diamond next year :lol:
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#31 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:16 am

I’m not terribly concerned about the age anymore. If he’s essentially a Doug at the 2, who can defend, and switch from 1-3 and some 4’s? That’s a really usable player.

Otherwise, the last player we drafted, and kept until their 30th birthday was Danny Granger. Most guys seem to play out their rookie contract, and MAYBE sign another 4 year deal, so we’re talking about a guy that will be 32 after all that, if it all works well. And we wouldn’t be out of the realm of normalcy with that type of situation. I’d have personally taken Moody, but I don’t dislike Duarte.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#32 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 am

Chad Buchanan in presser said they took one NBA ready player and one youngster. So one safer pick and one home run swing. One can argue about which pick should have been the risky one, but one of each is hard to argue with.

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#33 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:22 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:I’m not terribly concerned about the age anymore. If he’s essentially a Doug at the 2, who can defend, and switch from 1-3 and some 4’s? That’s a really usable player.

Otherwise, the last player we drafted, and kept until their 30th birthday was Danny Granger. Most guys seem to play out their rookie contract, and MAYBE sign another 4 year deal, so we’re talking about a guy that will be 32 after all that, if it all works well. And we wouldn’t be out of the realm of normalcy with that type of situation. I’d have personally taken Moody, but I don’t dislike Duarte.


I’m with you and definitely think he’ll work out. We needed defense and to replace Doug’s 3 point production and movement.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#34 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 am

Wizop wrote:Chad Buchanan in presser said they took one NBA ready player and one youngster. So one safer pick and one home run swing. One can argue about which pick should have been the risky one, but one of each is hard to argue with.

Sent from my phone.


That would be a good argument if Duarte was the only NBA ready player we could have picked. He wasn't, though. Moses Moody is NBA ready and he's 5 years younger than Duarte.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#35 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 am

Pacers Forever wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I’m not terribly concerned about the age anymore. If he’s essentially a Doug at the 2, who can defend, and switch from 1-3 and some 4’s? That’s a really usable player.

Otherwise, the last player we drafted, and kept until their 30th birthday was Danny Granger. Most guys seem to play out their rookie contract, and MAYBE sign another 4 year deal, so we’re talking about a guy that will be 32 after all that, if it all works well. And we wouldn’t be out of the realm of normalcy with that type of situation. I’d have personally taken Moody, but I don’t dislike Duarte.


I’m with you and definitely think he’ll work out. We needed defense and to replace Doug’s 3 point production and movement.


Did we need that more than a potential star?
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#36 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:37 am

Nuntius wrote:Moses Moody is NBA ready and he's 5 years younger than Duarte.


I too worry about Duarte's age. but the team worked out both Moody and Duarte and if they rated Duarte higher, I would be arrogant to put my judgment ahead of theirs.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#37 » by 8305 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:I’m not terribly concerned about the age anymore. If he’s essentially a Doug at the 2, who can defend, and switch from 1-3 and some 4’s? That’s a really usable player.

Otherwise, the last player we drafted, and kept until their 30th birthday was Danny Granger. Most guys seem to play out their rookie contract, and MAYBE sign another 4 year deal, so we’re talking about a guy that will be 32 after all that, if it all works well. And we wouldn’t be out of the realm of normalcy with that type of situation. I’d have personally taken Moody, but I don’t dislike Duarte.


History pretty strongly suggests bigger improvement from younger guys. Is Moody more likely to develop into a Devin Booker/Clay Thompson? Pacers needed that type of hit.

Isiah Jackson looks to have an interesting upside but, if we don’t get Turner or Sabonis moved there will be no reason for him to even dress for most games.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#38 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:44 am

Wizop wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Moses Moody is NBA ready and he's 5 years younger than Duarte.


I too worry about Duarte's age. but the team worked out both Moody and Duarte and if they rated Duarte higher, I would be arrogant to put my judgment ahead of theirs.


Look, I'm not saying that it's not possible that Duarte is better right now. He may as well be. The question is where will the two players be in 2-3 years. Who will be better then? That's what matters.

And the reason why that matters is that we are not contending this next season. We simply aren't. We don't have the talent for it. We have the talent to be a #4 or #5 seed, under the very best circumstances. Again, we needed an injection of high-end talent and Duarte just isn't that. Under no circumstances. Moody could be that and he's pretty good right now too.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#39 » by Tom White » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 am

8305 wrote:Isiah Jackson looks to have an interesting upside but, if we don’t get Turner or Sabonis moved there will be no reason for him to even dress for most games.


Maybe he is destined to spend some time getting experience with the Mad Ants? No idea, just throwing out thoughts.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#40 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 am

Nuntius wrote:
Pacers Forever wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I’m not terribly concerned about the age anymore. If he’s essentially a Doug at the 2, who can defend, and switch from 1-3 and some 4’s? That’s a really usable player.

Otherwise, the last player we drafted, and kept until their 30th birthday was Danny Granger. Most guys seem to play out their rookie contract, and MAYBE sign another 4 year deal, so we’re talking about a guy that will be 32 after all that, if it all works well. And we wouldn’t be out of the realm of normalcy with that type of situation. I’d have personally taken Moody, but I don’t dislike Duarte.


I’m with you and definitely think he’ll work out. We needed defense and to replace Doug’s 3 point production and movement.


Did we need that more than a potential star?


Realistically we needed a replacement for Doug’s spot. Yes it would have been nice to get Bouknight or Moody, but the Pacers or Carlisle preferred Duarte for a replacement. We weren’t picking high enough in the lottery to get a difference making player who would put Sabonis, Turner, Brogdon, Warren, or LeVert on the second team.

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