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Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#61 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:48 pm

Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I get preferring other guys. I totally do. I’m fine with Duarte, but we can all agree on one thing.

Thank God it wasn’t Kispert. That would’ve gotten me hot. :lol:


It's worse, isn't it? Duarte is 2 years older than Kispert.


Oh, you’re off the deep end or irrationality :lol:

Sure, he’s older than Kispert. But Duarte does more than just shoot. Kispert’s super one-dimensionality would’ve been a nightmare. Kispert and Duarte were CLEARLY a different type of player in projection.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#62 » by davidfr94 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:07 pm

Nuntius wrote:
davidfr94 wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
We are going to be making the playoffs with Rick regardless. As a low seed, yeah, but Duarte doesn't change that. He doesn't change our floor or our ceiling.


Yeah but he is not the type of coach that loves taking time developing young players


Meh. He had no issue playing Brunson. Yogi Ferrel's played a lot for him as well. We didn't need to pick a 24 year old for him to play.
Well yogi was 23-24 and brunson is not good example imo because he has played like veteran almost since day 1.

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#63 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:55 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I get preferring other guys. I totally do. I’m fine with Duarte, but we can all agree on one thing.

Thank God it wasn’t Kispert. That would’ve gotten me hot. :lol:


It's worse, isn't it? Duarte is 2 years older than Kispert.


Oh, you’re off the deep end or irrationality :lol:

Sure, he’s older than Kispert. But Duarte does more than just shoot. Kispert’s super one-dimensionality would’ve been a nightmare. Kispert and Duarte were CLEARLY a different type of player in projection.


Maybe. I just don't trust that any of Duarte's skills other than shooting are going to translate. I mean, he was only capable of showing off these skills against guys 4-5 years younger than him. He won't be doing any of that against NBA competition.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#64 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:56 pm

davidfr94 wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
davidfr94 wrote:
Yeah but he is not the type of coach that loves taking time developing young players


Meh. He had no issue playing Brunson. Yogi Ferrel's played a lot for him as well. We didn't need to pick a 24 year old for him to play.
Well yogi was 23-24 and brunson is not good example imo because he has played like veteran almost since day 1.

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Based on a lot of people, Moody plays like a veteran as well with sky-high basketball IQ.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#65 » by boomershadow » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:14 pm

I have seen a lot of the negative reaction. I don't agree. I think you have to know what your organization is good at and what it isn't. Pacers haven't done a good job the last few years of identifying talent or giving it room to develop. Rick hasn't been great at that either at Dallas. What to do in that situation? Take a guy that's as close to NBA ready as you can get, where you know what you are hoping to get even if there is a lower theoretical ceiling. From everything I've heard or read, that's Duarte.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#66 » by Wizop » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:37 pm

Nuntius wrote:Based on a lot of people, Moody plays like a veteran as well with sky-high basketball IQ.


what I'm reading this morning is that the Pacers didn't feel Moody was athletic enough. I'm fine with that. I think we've drafted a lot of unathletic guys over the years (Niang is a good example) and have decided to get faster.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#67 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:31 pm

boomershadow wrote:I have seen a lot of the negative reaction. I don't agree. I think you have to know what your organization is good at and what it isn't. Pacers haven't done a good job the last few years of identifying talent or giving it room to develop. Rick hasn't been great at that either at Dallas. What to do in that situation? Take a guy that's as close to NBA ready as you can get, where you know what you are hoping to get even if there is a lower theoretical ceiling. From everything I've heard or read, that's Duarte.


No, what you should do in that situation is to trade away the pick. Use that pick to get an upgrade for your roster.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#68 » by Topofthekey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:03 pm

Well, here's another perspective

If the pessimistic view is that Duerte is going to be a role player, something like Doug or Justin and nothing more, then just think of it this way: we managed to sign another Justin Holiday-like player in free agency for like $3m per year

That's a win

I mean, I would still have preferred it if they tried to look for the next Donovan Mitchell, but adding another good role player at the level of Doug or Justin at $3m is still a win: just imagine he's Doug who re-signed with us for $3m per year, that's a steal my friends
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#69 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:11 pm

Wizop wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Based on a lot of people, Moody plays like a veteran as well with sky-high basketball IQ.


what I'm reading this morning is that the Pacers didn't feel Moody was athletic enough. I'm fine with that. I think we've drafted a lot of unathletic guys over the years (Niang is a good example) and have decided to get faster.


Moody isn't an explosive vertical athlete, that's true, but it's not like Duarte is renowned for his athleticism.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#70 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:14 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Well, here's another perspective

If the pessimistic view is that Duerte is going to be a role player, something like Doug or Justin and nothing more, then just think of it this way: we managed to sign another Justin Holiday-like player in free agency for like $3m per year

That's a win

I mean, I would still have preferred it if they tried to look for the next Donovan Mitchell, but adding another good role player at the level of Doug or Justin at $3m is still a win: just imagine he's Doug who re-signed with us for $3m per year, that's a steal my friends


I don't see how that's a win. At #13 in a deep draft, you try to get someone at the level of Sabonis with $3 million, not someone at the level of Doug with $3 million.

You just don't use the #13 pick to save up on around $7-8 million that you aren't even planning on using.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#71 » by Tom White » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:30 pm

Nuntius wrote:I don't see how that's a win. At #13 in a deep draft, you try to get someone at the level of Sabonis with $3 million, not someone at the level of Doug with $3 million.


Who do you suggest the Pacers should have taken instead?
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#72 » by DickGrayson » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 pm

Nuntius wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:If you guys remember clearly, Brogdon was 24 when he won rookie of the year. People said it was a fluke ROY because the other young players would eventually develop "better" than him. It turned out Brogdon improved every season and had a break out year in 2021 averaging 21 ppg.


As someone who watched that year, let me tell you that it was not a break out year at all.
And that's alright. Brogdon was a great pick at #36 and I'd be elated if Duarte turns out like him. I simply believe that he'll turn out like Doug McDermott or Justin Holiday. A good role player and nothing more.



How many guys in the league average 21 ppg with 5pg/5apg on 45% FG and 38% 3PT? Who ever is on that list, they are an all star or head honcho of their team.

Per 36 minutes, you can see how Brogdon developed.

From age 24 as a 13ppg per 36
to age 28 as a 22.1 ppg per 36

That's a 9 point difference. Last year it was 19, but still 19 to 22 is a great improvement.

Even compared to two previous seasons Brogdon had, he was sub 20 ppg. Even if his shooting numbers didn't take a leap ahead, that's expected with the usage going up.

His usage went up from 18% to 25%.

Carrying more responsibility and being involved in more possessions is an indication that Brogdon can navigate an offense and be a go to guy when needed. Even if his usage goes up this season, lets say by 2%, he's averaging more points on the same shooting %....that's a legit 22 ppg guy who can dish the rock. This shows Brogdon's growth as a player and how consistent he is now being a 20 ppg scorer. Evolving into a more volume scorer is an improvement to me. I can see your point on how he didn't exactly improve as an all around player because he had the worst defensive rating of his career, clearly him being more focused on the offensive side of the ball.

Brogdon had a career high 15 rebounds this season. Previous season he only had 8 as a season high.
Career high in 3PTM with 7 and points with 36. His highest GmScr with 32.9. The usage is up, but he's producing with the same PER. It's not a massive breakout, but its a break through to what Brogdon did previous seasons. I'm not saying Brogdon is an elite guard, but not many guards in the NBA can post 21 6 5 on good shooting numbers. If they are, they're usually all star caliber.

By the way, all the respect to you. You follow the Pacers more than me and whatever your take on it is totally respected by me. I'm learning more about the team so the more you tell me the better. I hope you don't take it like I'm coming at you because I'm open to admitting my take may be novice and I am all ears because I like to learn more. I'm generally excited what is brewing in Indiana. I think Jackson is a great fit and bringing RC back to the franchise is money.


My take on Duarte: He plays like the go to option and this is with the undeniable fact that Oregon is loaded with scorers. He's a good passer but he does not defer because he's a very natural scorer that shoots efficiently and can shoot from anywhere, he will not hesitate to take a shot. Hard to be a role player when you're constantly on the court creating offense naturally. Even without the ball, Duarte moves well in the half court and will find himself open and can create his own shot. Sure his role won't be big his rookie year, that's why I brought up Brogdon. Guys role and responsibilities increase with experience. They start handling the ball more, sure turnovers go up and FG may stay the same or go down....but the added responsibility shows the coach has trust in his smartest and most ready players.

I believe the Pacers front office wouldn't have wasted a 13 pick in a stacked draft on just a role player. They are ready to give Duarte 13th pick type responsibility. I mean why wouldn't they? Brogdon and LaVert can play multi positions in a positionless game. Duarte will get his shot off and generate alot of offense. Hes the last rookie in this class that will even play like a rookie. You will notice how fearless he is on the court.


DickGrayson wrote:Duarte isn't just a 3 and D, he's top in his class at scoring off the dribble, in transition and off the pick and roll.

Duarte going from running the P&R with Clifford Omoruyi to now having Sabonis and Turner who are both elite....it will open the floor more since Duarte is a deadeye shooter.


Nuntius wrote:Yeah but he's also going to be running the P&R against actual NBA players and not against kids who are 4 and 5 years younger than him.


I expect Duarte to be a gym rat. He got a lot of steals in the Pac-10 because he studied each team extensively and was prepared for what the offense was running. He's like a boxer who study's tape of his opponent before a fight and applies it to gain an edge. Rookies eventually gain experience and apply their skills more efficiently each season. Duarte already has a mature and ready game because he multi dimensional. A great shooter, but he moves very well in half court and finish top in the nation in most categories at his position. Without question, Duarte is making an impact in the NBA as soon as he steps on the court. Guys who can score in transition, deadeye shooter whether it's spotting up, pulling up or off the dribble with P&R play and great defense. Most college scouts have renown Duarte as the best defender in the draft. Guys like Duarte translate well to the NBA because the most important factor is readiness. How much a player prepares for situations in game will determine what level of a player he is. I see Duarte being clutch and making impact for Indiana.

DickGrayson wrote:Duarte has a good chance to finish all rookie first team. It's not that he's NBA ready, he can develop as good as any 19 year old. The same way Brogdon did and earned himself a role in this league.



Nuntius wrote:He'll be 28 and at the end of his peak.



Every player has a different peak. It's not always 28. I can't give you a number. We won't know Duarte's peak until his career is over or we see him decline. For all we know he can peak into 31-32. It happens for players. He can have a freak injury and not even reach a peak at all. Anything can happen.

DickGrayson wrote:Brogdon/Duarte in the backcourt ....Duarte has deceptive speed and will surprise people with athleticism. He's better shooting Zach Lavine with active hands on defense. I wanted CD5 on the Knicks because I believe it would address the Knicks biggest need. I think being away from the NY media it would give CD5 more room to grow and focus.


Nuntius wrote:I mean, if Duarte is Zach Lavine with active hands on defense then this was a home run. Lavine is an All-Star that plays minimal defense. If he played defense as well, he'd probably be an All-NBA guy. I really hope that Duarte is anything clsoe to that. If he is, I'll gladly eat gobs of crow :D



I believe Indiana can form a consistent and strong backcourt with Brogdon/LaVert who are more offensive minded and Duarte comes in relieving that offense and providing action on defense. Whether it's off the bench, I believe he'll get a big enough role to make all rookie team. He's an underrated rebounder, averaged 7 rpg at JUCO. He's very sneaky, sees play ahead of him. That type of player RC will always lean towards. If I'm wrong I'll hold the L and eat crow.



DickGrayson wrote:I'm also a fan of Moody, but Duarte is more creative offensive and has better handles. Moody would need a PG to get his offense off until he develops. Duarte is a sure thing and can run an offense. He's a gym rat who study tape constantly. Indiana trusted Duarte with the 13 pick for a reason.


Nuntius wrote: We trusted him because he was the safest pick. That's not a good reason, imo.


RC said it himself that Duarte was the best player available. If he has that much confidence and yes it's just Head Coach being a Head Coach, but RC has a great track record with evaluating talent. Alot of great wing players have been coached by him...Duarte is probably with the best staff to develop and make people forget about his age. if I'm wrong I'll take that L




Hard to be a role player when all your movements mimic the same tendencies and styles of Devin Booker/Zach Lavine. The pull ups off set plays, off screen and off dribble jumpers, the stepbacks, spot ups, sneaky explosiveness. Guys who can get off their shot and utilize the floor with or without the ball. Duarte's ball handling is underrated and his finishing is efficient. This is everything Rick wants in a SG.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#73 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:35 pm

Tom White wrote:
Nuntius wrote:I don't see how that's a win. At #13 in a deep draft, you try to get someone at the level of Sabonis with $3 million, not someone at the level of Doug with $3 million.


Who do you suggest the Pacers should have taken instead?


Moses Moody was the obvious pick if you wanted to go for an NBA-ready guy who projects as an elite-role player that could maybe become something more in the future.

Keon Johnson was a possibility if you wanted an explosive athlete with a great defensive presence and a very high motor that could develop into a two-way player. Granted, Keon Johnson is very raw offensively but his defense alone can earn him a rotational spot.

Jalen Johnson was another possibility if you wanted another great athlete with defensive and playmaking potential. There were some character concerns with him, though, (fair or not) so I understand why teams shied away and he fell.

Alperen Sengun was a player who was much more productive than Duarte was last year, despite the fact that he was playing against grown men in a professional league as an 18 year old. He won the MVP in that league, by the way. Meanwhile, Duarte only managed to post good numbers as a 24 year old playing against 19 and 20 year olds. When it comes to production, it is straight-out silly that Sengun was picked after Duarte. Even if Sengun wasn't 5 years younger, he should have gone higher due to production alone. Now, I didn't want us to pick Sengun due to positional reasons but if the argument is production then, yeah, he was much better than Duarte.

Usman Garuba was an option if you wanted a Forward/Center with a ton of defensive versatility and top-notch defensive instincts and awareness. His offense is a work in progress but he has the athletic profile to be a rim runner and PnR roll man, at the very least.

Tre Mann, Josh Christopher and Cameron Thomas were all options if you wanted a scoring guard.

Jaden Springer, Ayo Dosunmu, Miles McBride and Jared Butler were all options if you wanted a defensive guard.

Joe Wieskamp was an option if you wanted a pure shooter.

Trey Murphy III was another option if you wanted a 3&D guy.

JT Thor was another option if you wanted a very versatile defender with great length and athletic tools that can also shoot the 3.

Sharife Cooper was an option if you wanted a very good passer that can also score but is undersized.

Obviously, I'm not saying that all of them should be picked ahead of Duarte. That's mostly the case for the ones that had more than one sentence dedicated to them and not for the ones bunched up together in a single sentence. And yes, not all of them will work out. Some will work out great, while others will fail. That happens every year, after all. But I still see more potential in the ones I mentioned than I see in Duarte.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#74 » by Nuntius » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:03 pm

DickGrayson wrote:How many guys in the league average 21 ppg with 5pg/5apg on 45% FG and 38% 3PT? Who ever is on that list, they are an all star or head honcho of their team.

Per 36 minutes, you can see how Brogdon developed.

From age 24 as a 13ppg per 36
to age 28 as a 22.1 ppg per 36

That's a 9 point difference. Last year it was 19, but still 19 to 22 is a great improvement.

Even compared to two previous seasons Brogdon had, he was sub 20 ppg. Even if his shooting numbers didn't take a leap ahead, that's expected with the usage going up.

His usage went up from 18% to 25%.

Carrying more responsibility and being involved in more possessions is an indication that Brogdon can navigate an offense and be a go to guy when needed. Even if his usage goes up this season, lets say by 2%, he's averaging more points on the same shooting %....that's a legit 22 ppg guy who can dish the rock. This shows Brogdon's growth as a player and how consistent he is now being a 20 ppg scorer. Evolving into a more volume scorer is an improvement to me. I can see your point on how he didn't exactly improve as an all around player because he had the worst defensive rating of his career, clearly him being more focused on the offensive side of the ball.

Brogdon had a career high 15 rebounds this season. Previous season he only had 8 as a season high.
Career high in 3PTM with 7 and points with 36. His highest GmScr with 32.9. The usage is up, but he's producing with the same PER. It's not a massive breakout, but its a break through to what Brogdon did previous seasons. I'm not saying Brogdon is an elite guard, but not many guards in the NBA can post 21 6 5 on good shooting numbers. If they are, they're usually all star caliber.


Obviously, I never said that Brogdon is not a good player. As I said above, if Duarte turns out to be Brogdon, I'd be elated.

Brogdon to me is a very good starter. I don't quite like him at PG, if I'm being honest, I feel that his methodical pace actively hurts our team but I do love him as a SG that is deadly off the ball and can create for himself and others as the secondary ball-handler. To me, he is on the same level with Jrue Holiday and that's great. Jrue Holiday proved this year that he is a legit #3 on a title team. That's how I view Brogdon as well. The problem is that we don't have someone like Giannis to be our #1.

DickGrayson wrote:By the way, all the respect to you. You follow the Pacers more than me and whatever your take on it is totally respected by me. I'm learning more about the team so the more you tell me the better. I hope you don't take it like I'm coming at you because I'm open to admitting my take may be novice and I am all ears because I like to learn more. I'm generally excited what is brewing in Indiana. I think Jackson is a great fit and bringing RC back to the franchise is money.


No worries, mate. I didn't take it as you coming at me. I definitely agree that bringing Carlise back is great and I like the Jackson pick. The fit isn't great, imo, since we already have a lot of Centers ahead of him (although, no one fitting that very athletic/mobile mold) and I would probably have picked other people ahead of him at #22 (like Usman Garuba who went right after him) but I cannot complain about the overal value of the trades that led to this pick (a bunch of late seconds and Aaron) nor can I say that Jackson wasn't touted as a talented prospect (there is a reason why he had a Green Room invite). So, I like the value quite a bit even if he wasn't my #1 guy in that slot.

DickGrayson wrote:My take on Duarte: He plays like the go to option and this is with the undeniable fact that Oregon is loaded with scorers. He's a good passer but he does not defer because he's a very natural scorer that shoots efficiently and can shoot from anywhere, he will not hesitate to take a shot. Hard to be a role player when you're constantly on the court creating offense naturally. Even without the ball, Duarte moves well in the half court and will find himself open and can create his own shot. Sure his role won't be big his rookie year, that's why I brought up Brogdon. Guys role and responsibilities increase with experience. They start handling the ball more, sure turnovers go up and FG may stay the same or go down....but the added responsibility shows the coach has trust in his smartest and most ready players.

I believe the Pacers front office wouldn't have wasted a 13 pick in a stacked draft on just a role player. They are ready to give Duarte 13th pick type responsibility. I mean why wouldn't they? Brogdon and LaVert can play multi positions in a positionless game. Duarte will get his shot off and generate alot of offense. Hes the last rookie in this class that will even play like a rookie. You will notice how fearless he is on the court.

I expect Duarte to be a gym rat. He got a lot of steals in the Pac-10 because he studied each team extensively and was prepared for what the offense was running. He's like a boxer who study's tape of his opponent before a fight and applies it to gain an edge. Rookies eventually gain experience and apply their skills more efficiently each season. Duarte already has a mature and ready game because he multi dimensional. A great shooter, but he moves very well in half court and finish top in the nation in most categories at his position. Without question, Duarte is making an impact in the NBA as soon as he steps on the court. Guys who can score in transition, deadeye shooter whether it's spotting up, pulling up or off the dribble with P&R play and great defense. Most college scouts have renown Duarte as the best defender in the draft. Guys like Duarte translate well to the NBA because the most important factor is readiness. How much a player prepares for situations in game will determine what level of a player he is. I see Duarte being clutch and making impact for Indiana.


Let's hope so, my friend. I really, really hope that you're right on Duarte and that he is capable of doing more than I think he is. The reason why I doubt him is because he only managed to post good numbers as a 24 year old. This, to me, means that he was simply exploiting his age, experience and old man strength against guy who were 3, 4 and 5 years younger than he was. I don't see how that translates to the NBA.

Someone told me yesterday that they view this a bit like an Euro acquisition. Like we just brought over someone who we had stashed to Europe some years ago or like we just signed a guy who played in the EuroLeague last year but decided to make the leap to the NBA at age 24 or 25. And examples like that do exist. Both Bojan and Bogdan Bogdanovic are an example of that and they're damn good players. The issue I have with this comparison is that players like these have amassed a lot of experience by playing in a number of high stakes games. They've faced tough competition. They've been baptized in fire (quite literally sometimes :P ). They have the kind of experience where you say "yes, they will come in and be very productive right away".

I don't see any of that with Duarte. He doesn't have that kind of experience and I don't think that he'll come in and be productive right away like Bogdan was. He may be productive as a bench piece, yes, but I don't expect him to challenge for any starting spot any time soon which in his case (given that he'll be 28 by the end of his rookie deal) means that he'll probably never challenge for one.

DickGrayson wrote:Every player has a different peak. It's not always 28. I can't give you a number. We won't know Duarte's peak until his career is over or we see him decline. For all we know he can peak into 31-32. It happens for players. He can have a freak injury and not even reach a peak at all. Anything can happen.


That's true, anything can happen. The players who peak late tend to be exceptions or trascendent players that just never really fall off but, yes, anything can happen.

DickGrayson wrote:I believe Indiana can form a consistent and strong backcourt with Brogdon/LaVert who are more offensive minded and Duarte comes in relieving that offense and providing action on defense. Whether it's off the bench, I believe he'll get a big enough role to make all rookie team. He's an underrated rebounder, averaged 7 rpg at JUCO. He's very sneaky, sees play ahead of him. That type of player RC will always lean towards. If I'm wrong I'll hold the L and eat crow.

RC said it himself that Duarte was the best player available. If he has that much confidence and yes it's just Head Coach being a Head Coach, but RC has a great track record with evaluating talent. Alot of great wing players have been coached by him...Duarte is probably with the best staff to develop and make people forget about his age. if I'm wrong I'll take that L


For what is worth, I really hope you're right :D


DickGrayson wrote:

Hard to be a role player when all your movements mimic the same tendencies and styles of Devin Booker/Zach Lavine. The pull ups off set plays, off screen and off dribble jumpers, the stepbacks, spot ups, sneaky explosiveness. Guys who can get off their shot and utilize the floor with or without the ball. Duarte's ball handling is underrated and his finishing is efficient. This is everything Rick wants in a SG.


I don't rate his ball-handling very highly (not to the extent where I think he'll make those kind of plays against NBA competition) so, yeah, I definitely underrate it. Again, I really hope you're right.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#75 » by Pacersike » Mon Aug 2, 2021 11:14 pm

Nuntius wrote:I have the utmost faith in our players. The ones that will remain, at least, because Bjorkgren totally fractured the locker-room. What I'm starting to lose faith on is our management. Last night was awful and if we don't make moves to rectify that **** soon, it will be a turning point.

You have too much negativity these days, where in the past you were an example of positive spirit.

14 lottery teams didn't draft the finals MVP, were they all awful that night? No, they made some mistakes, like we all do.

Every player, drafted or not, deserves some chances to show what he is capable of. KP got a (disputable) green flag this offseason, so for the moment we have to believe in him. Have you talked to Chris? Have you witnessed even close as much of his behaviour as our scouts?

A coach doesn't have the power to totally fracture a locker room (players have a lot of powers too).
Release all the extremes, nothing in this world is worthy of feeling frustrated about and nothing in this world deserves to be called ****.
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#76 » by Nuntius » Tue Aug 3, 2021 12:00 am

Pacersike wrote:You have too much negativity these days, where in the past you were an example of positive spirit.


Sorry but that's not how I see it. I do not believe that I have changed at all. I have always been willing to criticize moves that I considered bad. I heavily criticized Bird for the way he treated DG, Roy and Frank. If I believe that a move is a bad, I'll criticize it. It just so happened that I didn't consider any of the moves that KP had made up to this draft to be bad.

My outlook on the team or our players hasn't changed but I have every right to not like a pick. That doesn't suddenly make me "not positive".

Pacersike wrote:14 lottery teams didn't draft the finals MVP, were they all awful that night? No, they made some mistakes, like we all do.


Not the same thing at all. Giannis was incredibly raw coming out of the draft. No one knew exactly what to expect out of him. He was a "mystery man". A player that was unearthed recently and not a lot of teams had seen him live. Absolutely no one expected him to fill out in the way he did and develop to the point that he has.

Pacersike wrote:Every player, drafted or not, deserves some chances to show what he is capable of. KP got a (disputable) green flag this offseason, so for the moment we have to believe in him. Have you talked to Chris? Have you witnessed even close as much of his behaviour as our scouts?


I never said that Duarte doesn't deserve a chance. I hope he gets as much playing time as possible and I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong. I just don't see it. I saw us drafting someone who I consider to be a bench-level player and that is extremely disappointed at #13.

Pacersike wrote:A coach doesn't have the power to totally fracture a locker room (players have a lot of powers too).
Release all the extremes, nothing in this world is worthy of feeling frustrated about and nothing in this world deserves to be called ****.


Saying that a coach doesn't have the power to totally fracture a locker room is an extreme, isn't it? :wink:
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#77 » by Pacersike » Tue Aug 3, 2021 12:47 am

Nuntius wrote:Saying that a coach doesn't have the power to totally fracture a locker room is an extreme, isn't it? :wink:


No, it is definitely not. Even if a coach would do his very best to totally fracture a lockerroom, other members of that lockerroom have enough power to prevent it from happening. A group will never endure the leader you describe. They want to flourish too.

If Chris deserves chance on the court, why doesn't he deserve those chances in your head? Expand the openmindness. The right mindset can make huge difference in the NBA, also for Chris.

There is absolutely no need to be extremely negative about our organisation, out of respect for people doing the best they can, and for yourself. There are plenty of opportunities out there to create a better world yourself. Every second you are complaining and discussing here how awful draft night was, is a second you can not spend making a positive impact somewhere else.

If I were you, I would spend more energy spreading positive vibes. Which you were already very good at before. Which is why I spend energy to encourage you. You are capable of great things, why waste energy on frustrations about things you can not change (yet ;))?
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#78 » by Nuntius » Tue Aug 3, 2021 6:02 am

Pacersike wrote:No, it is definitely not. Even if a coach would do his very best to totally fracture a lockerroom, other members of that lockerroom have enough power to prevent it from happening. A group will never endure the leader you describe. They want to flourish too.


If Bjorkgren wasn't the main cause behind all that then we have much bigger problems. I'd like to think that we don't have those kind of problems.

Pacersike wrote:If Chris deserves chance on the court, why doesn't he deserve those chances in your head? Expand the openmindness. The right mindset can make huge difference in the NBA, also for Chris.


Huh? Sorry, man, your argument doesn't make any sense to me. I have never, ever said that Duarte doesn't deserve a chance in my head. I haven't even said anything against Duarte, the player, other than my honest opinion of what I've seen of him in these scouting videos. I have no issue with Duarte, the player. My issue is with Duarte, the pick. I really hope that the player gives me a reason to change my mind on the pick. My mind is not closed at all.

Pacersike wrote:There is absolutely no need to be extremely negative about our organisation, out of respect for people doing the best they can, and for yourself. There are plenty of opportunities out there to create a better world yourself. Every second you are complaining and discussing here how awful draft night was, is a second you can not spend making a positive impact somewhere else.


One pick. One pick is what I don't like. I'm not "extremely negative about our organisation" because I don't like one pick. It also doesn't mean that I'm not making a positive impact somewhere else. You don't know my life so I have no idea why you're judging me.

Pacersike wrote:If I were you, I would spend more energy spreading positive vibes. Which you were already very good at before. Which is why I spend energy to encourage you. You are capable of great things, why waste energy on frustrations about things you can not change (yet ;))?


If I were you, I would respect other's opinions and boundaries. I am sorry but you're not coming off as encouraging at all. You're coming off as judgemental.
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Mankind..."

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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#79 » by Pacersike » Tue Aug 3, 2021 7:26 am

Nuntius wrote:If Bjorkgren wasn't the main cause behind all that then we have much bigger problems. I'd like to think that we don't have those kind of problems.

Huh? Sorry, man, your argument doesn't make any sense to me. I have never, ever said that Duarte doesn't deserve a chance in my head. I haven't even said anything against Duarte, the player, other than my honest opinion of what I've seen of him in these scouting videos. I have no issue with Duarte, the player. My issue is with Duarte, the pick. I really hope that the player gives me a reason to change my mind on the pick. My mind is not closed at all.

One pick. One pick is what I don't like. I'm not "extremely negative about our organisation" because I don't like one pick. It also doesn't mean that I'm not making a positive impact somewhere else. You don't know my life so I have no idea why you're judging me.

If I were you, I would respect other's opinions and boundaries. I am sorry but you're not coming off as encouraging at all. You're coming off as judgemental.


You are free to do what you want, just as I want to spend my energy on more valuable matters to me 8-) .
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Re: Pacers Select Chris Duarte at #13 

Post#80 » by Nuntius » Tue Aug 3, 2021 7:49 am

Pacersike wrote:
Nuntius wrote:If Bjorkgren wasn't the main cause behind all that then we have much bigger problems. I'd like to think that we don't have those kind of problems.

Huh? Sorry, man, your argument doesn't make any sense to me. I have never, ever said that Duarte doesn't deserve a chance in my head. I haven't even said anything against Duarte, the player, other than my honest opinion of what I've seen of him in these scouting videos. I have no issue with Duarte, the player. My issue is with Duarte, the pick. I really hope that the player gives me a reason to change my mind on the pick. My mind is not closed at all.

One pick. One pick is what I don't like. I'm not "extremely negative about our organisation" because I don't like one pick. It also doesn't mean that I'm not making a positive impact somewhere else. You don't know my life so I have no idea why you're judging me.

If I were you, I would respect other's opinions and boundaries. I am sorry but you're not coming off as encouraging at all. You're coming off as judgemental.


You are free to do what you want, just as I want to spend my energy on more valuable matters to me 8-) .


Glad we have an understanding 8-)
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch

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