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Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m

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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#21 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Aug 3, 2021 3:23 pm

8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


We’ve had such serious injury history with our guys and had to play deep in the bench lately. Also, I wouldn’t say he’ll necessarily minimize the development of the other guys. He’ll definitely drive competition for them and push them to improve, though. I imagine we paid him decently and provided long-term security to convince him to sign here, knowing that he may not play much, and he’ll be expected to help develop and push the young guys. Otherwise, he definitely got paid much more than he would be worth from his production. But if he signed on to be a leader, and sacrifice playing time, the contract makes much more sense.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#22 » by 8305 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 3:38 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


We’ve had such serious injury history with our guys and had to play deep in the bench lately. Also, I wouldn’t say he’ll necessarily minimize the development of the other guys. He’ll definitely drive competition for them and push them to improve, though. I imagine we paid him decently and provided long-term security to convince him to sign here, knowing that he may not play much, and he’ll be expected to help develop and push the young guys. Otherwise, he definitely got paid much more than he would be worth from his production. But if he signed on to be a leader, and sacrifice playing time, the contract makes much more sense.


Ok so I'll try to put a glass is half full face on this. At fifteen deep we are the most injury proof team in the league. And since we lack top end talent there is literally no one who can't be replaced at some level.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#23 » by Wizop » Tue Aug 3, 2021 3:53 pm

8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


why is having enough depth to do load management a bad thing? I don't think you can be too deep.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#24 » by 8305 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 4:17 pm

Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


why is having enough depth to do load management a bad thing? I don't think you can be too deep.


Maybe this is the best a small market team like Indiana can do? Spend till you hit the cap and hope someone stays healthy and takes that next step. But, I gotta tell its frustrating for me to watch. Still don't understand the Duarte pick. We are 15 deep and we needed a win now piece out of the draft?
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#25 » by Wizop » Tue Aug 3, 2021 4:21 pm

8305 wrote:Maybe this is the best a small market team like Indiana can do? Spend till you hit the cap and hope someone stays healthy and takes that next step.


nitpicking but we spend until we hit the tax, not the cap.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#26 » by 8305 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 7:38 pm

Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:Maybe this is the best a small market team like Indiana can do? Spend till you hit the cap and hope someone stays healthy and takes that next step.


nitpicking but we spend until we hit the tax, not the cap.


Yeah, that's what I meant. Not trying to be critical of ownership.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 8, 2021 1:54 pm

Caitlin Cooper with the Craig review: In short, he’s the anti-Doug McDermott. Doesn’t feel the movement and spacing needed on offense, but is a switchable defender that can switch 1-3 and most 4’s. Realistically maxes out as a 15-20 minute a night kind of guy.

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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#28 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:57 pm

Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


why is having enough depth to do load management a bad thing? I don't think you can be too deep.

In principle yes, depth is always good

The problem is, this team is quite young. Most of the depth is comprised of young players who are trying to take the next step

Playing time can unpredictable for depth players. They can be playing 20 minutes one game and then 0 minutes the next 5 games

It's fine to have a few roleplayer vets in this kind of role. For young players though, this type of unpredictability in playing time means limited opportunities for them
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#29 » by SmashMouthRod » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:09 am

Pacersike wrote:Days that I knew the good players of other teams are over, so I can only look forward to his contributions.

His age tells me he is not a player we can develop into someone much better though.

Because of Warrens low durability, I'm still on the wait for the Pacers to sign/trade for a player that hasn't proven himself yet, but is a player that our scouts predict to become a contributor. If we can sign such a player with such potential, we can really make a difference, also financially.

The Pacers way is too much player produces, gets signed by/traded to Pacers and not enough Pacers sign/trade for player, player starts producing big numbers.


Agreed. I was hoping the front office wouldve considered taking a chance at sending an offer for Marvin Bagley III. Considering he was a former number 1 pick with star talent who hasnt been able to rise to the expectations as of yet; his value is low right now. THere arent many chances Indiana will get to acquire a number one pick level talent. He flashed some difference making potential in his rookie season before getting hurt. A player like him may become a star under Carlisle; jump starting this roster into a contender. Its a potential low risk; high reward move that can elevate the impact of the other guys similarly to the Jermaine O'Neal Portland trade years ago.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#30 » by Wizop » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:53 pm

SmashMouthRod wrote:Agreed. I was hoping the front office would've considered taking a chance at sending an offer for Marvin Bagley III. Considering he was a former number 1 pick with star talent who hasn't been able to rise to the expectations as of yet;


It'd be a bit like arguing for taking a chance on TJ Leaf because he was once thought to have first round talent.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#31 » by Tom White » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:52 pm

Wizop wrote:It'd be a bit like arguing for taking a chance on TJ Leaf because he was once thought to have first round talent.


HA! Darned good point.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#32 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:51 pm

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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#33 » by TunaFish » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:37 pm

He's a wing defender and he can be very good in that role in certain situations. Shooting is inconsistent although occasionally he can hit a corner three but that is not his role. I have seen him create problems defensively for quality small forwards outside of Durant.

Additionally, he has started playoff games for Denver in the past.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#34 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:11 pm

TunaFish wrote:He's a wing defender and he can be very good in that role in certain situations. Shooting is inconsistent although occasionally he can hit a corner three but that is not his role. I have seen him create problems defensively for quality small forwards outside of Durant.

Additionally, he has started playoff games for Denver in the past.


Thanks. I think, ideally, he’s going to be a situational bench defender at the 3/4 for us. I’m not sure he’s getting a 10+Mpg role for the Pacers. $5m per year for multiple years might be a bit much for that, but it is something we’ve lacked greatly in past years.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#35 » by Topofthekey » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:18 am

TunaFish wrote:He's a wing defender and he can be very good in that role in certain situations. Shooting is inconsistent although occasionally he can hit a corner three but that is not his role. I have seen him create problems defensively for quality small forwards outside of Durant.

Additionally, he has started playoff games for Denver in the past.

I see him as a budget Gerald Wallace type player

Is that a more or less accurate picture of who he is?
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#36 » by boomershadow » Sat Sep 4, 2021 12:36 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:Torey Craig is a solid player. Looks like a solid #8 or #9 rotational guy on a good team. So we've got like 12 of those guys now? Rhetorical question did we get him to look good on the bench or just assure us that we minimize the development minutes/opportunity that could be allocated to Brissett and Duarte?


why is having enough depth to do load management a bad thing? I don't think you can be too deep.

In principle yes, depth is always good

The problem is, this team is quite young. Most of the depth is comprised of young players who are trying to take the next step

Playing time can unpredictable for depth players. They can be playing 20 minutes one game and then 0 minutes the next 5 games

It's fine to have a few roleplayer vets in this kind of role. For young players though, this type of unpredictability in playing time means limited opportunities for them


Definitely my biggest criticism of the team in the past five years.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#37 » by Wizop » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:17 pm

boomershadow wrote:Definitely my biggest criticism of the team in the past five years.


Useful players + useless players = 15.

You can argue we lack stars but I don't get the argument that we need more useless players because we have too many useful players.

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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#38 » by boomershadow » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:43 pm

Wizop wrote:
boomershadow wrote:Definitely my biggest criticism of the team in the past five years.


Useful players + useless players = 15.

You can argue we lack stars but I don't get the argument that we need more useless players because we have too many useful players.

Sent from my phone.


I don't care about stars, that Indy isn't a free agent destination, that we haven't made bad trades for overrated big names, or anything like that. I just want players on their rookie deals to get real development minutes. Otherwise we will never find out if they are stars or not.

I don't think finding guys like Danny Granger or Paul George or Myles Turner in the draft is really something we can expect to happen in the future. Both front office and coach seem aligned on the veteran angle. The results will tell whether or not that's a good strategy.

But what happens is we get to the end of Aaron Holday or Goga and maybe even Duarte's contract not knowing what to pay them, not having gotten the value of a rising player on a rookie budget friendly deal and not having teams offering much for them in trade because "we still don't know what they are yet" when we really could have found out.

Dallas had some success with this strategy. So did Portland during KP's time there. It's just that finding gems was a real hallmark of the franchise for a few awhile and I'm sad to see the team moving away from it.
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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#39 » by Wizop » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:00 pm

boomershadow wrote:I just want players on their rookie deals to get real development minutes.


Oh, so your criticism is not that we are too deep but that our rotation is too short. Never mind.

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Re: Pacers sign F Torrey Craig 2/$10m 

Post#40 » by TunaFish » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:01 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
TunaFish wrote:He's a wing defender and he can be very good in that role in certain situations. Shooting is inconsistent although occasionally he can hit a corner three but that is not his role. I have seen him create problems defensively for quality small forwards outside of Durant.

Additionally, he has started playoff games for Denver in the past.

I see him as a budget Gerald Wallace type player

Is that a more or less accurate picture of who he is?


That is not a bad comparison. If he could become a better offensive player, he would be a starter on many teams. You probably have heard that before though.

Here is a news article about one of his best games:

https://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/nuggets-torrey-craig-shines-in-first-playoff-start
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