Image

McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m

Moderators: pacers33granger, Jake0890, Grang33r, pacerfan, boomershadow

User avatar
Nuntius
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,043
And1: 11,885
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
   

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#41 » by Nuntius » Sun Aug 8, 2021 7:39 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Maybe? I assume that SA is sending us an unlikely to convey protected pick (maybe top 55 protected), while the protected pick we’re sending them may just be “top 40” or “top 45” protected. Then, SA has the “right to swap”. So, realistically, we’re likely sending them a 2nd and maybe trading down in 2nds in another draft.


Ah, gotcha. If that's the best then we best make good use of that TPE.


Sure. Even if we don’t (I mean, trades take two to tango), we at least have a lot more flexibility in our arsenal in deals. We’re probably going to see the TJ Leaf TPE expire today or tomorrow (I can’t remember which), but that’s ok. It’s out there in case we need it.


Yeah, it's true that trades take two to tango. Still, though, I'll be a bit miffed if we end up not using the TPE since it essentially cost us a second and we've shown this year that we can put these seconds in good use.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#42 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 8, 2021 7:44 pm

Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Ah, gotcha. If that's the best then we best make good use of that TPE.


Sure. Even if we don’t (I mean, trades take two to tango), we at least have a lot more flexibility in our arsenal in deals. We’re probably going to see the TJ Leaf TPE expire today or tomorrow (I can’t remember which), but that’s ok. It’s out there in case we need it.


Yeah, it's true that trades take two to tango. Still, though, I'll be a bit miffed if we end up not using the TPE since it essentially cost us a second and we've shown this year that we can put these seconds in good use.


Meh. Have to get the TPE at the time of the deal (which would be in the past) in order to possibly be able to use it in the future in a trade. Can’t retroactively go back and creat the TPE. So, you just have to say you’re either going to be the type of organization that is proactive, and maybe possibly doesn’t use it, or the type of organization that is very reactive, and loses out on the possibility to ever use it even if they could have.
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#43 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:09 pm

Well, it's a sign that the team may be willing to take on additional salary, if such an opportunity were to arise

If the team was stingy and dead set against increasing payroll, they would just decline to create the TPE and keep the 2RP
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#44 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:23 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Well, it's a sign that the team may be willing to take on additional salary, if such an opportunity were to arise

If the team was stingy and dead set against increasing payroll, they would just decline to create the TPE and keep the 2RP


Not necessarily. It’s good for another year, so in theory, they could let Warren walk, and replace him with someone that makes $7.3m or so instead. In that hypothetical, it would allow them to cut payroll by using the TPE, in a way.
User avatar
Nuntius
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 17,043
And1: 11,885
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
   

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#45 » by Nuntius » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:26 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Sure. Even if we don’t (I mean, trades take two to tango), we at least have a lot more flexibility in our arsenal in deals. We’re probably going to see the TJ Leaf TPE expire today or tomorrow (I can’t remember which), but that’s ok. It’s out there in case we need it.


Yeah, it's true that trades take two to tango. Still, though, I'll be a bit miffed if we end up not using the TPE since it essentially cost us a second and we've shown this year that we can put these seconds in good use.


Meh. Have to get the TPE at the time of the deal (which would be in the past) in order to possibly be able to use it in the future in a trade. Can’t retroactively go back and creat the TPE. So, you just have to say you’re either going to be the type of organization that is proactive, and maybe possibly doesn’t use it, or the type of organization that is very reactive, and loses out on the possibility to ever use it even if they could have.


I get you and I'm glad that we're being proactive. I'm just hoping that it leads somewhere because if it doesn't then we just wasted a minor asset.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#46 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:34 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Well, it's a sign that the team may be willing to take on additional salary, if such an opportunity were to arise

If the team was stingy and dead set against increasing payroll, they would just decline to create the TPE and keep the 2RP


Not necessarily. It’s good for another year, so in theory, they could let Warren walk, and replace him with someone that makes $7.3m or so instead. In that hypothetical, it would allow them to cut payroll by using the TPE, in a way.

I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap, so if they wanted someone for $7m they can probably just outright sign him without using a TPE
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 14,283
And1: 6,180
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#47 » by pacers33granger » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:37 pm

No one likes wasting assets. But it's a small one and the TPE itself is an asset. Some of the more aggressive teams have shown that you can seemingly trade every last asset and still find ways into the 2nd round. Plus we know we won't tank so it's highly unlikely any of our own picks would be in the 30s.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#48 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Aug 8, 2021 8:57 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Well, it's a sign that the team may be willing to take on additional salary, if such an opportunity were to arise

If the team was stingy and dead set against increasing payroll, they would just decline to create the TPE and keep the 2RP


Not necessarily. It’s good for another year, so in theory, they could let Warren walk, and replace him with someone that makes $7.3m or so instead. In that hypothetical, it would allow them to cut payroll by using the TPE, in a way.

I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap, so if they wanted someone for $7m they can probably just outright sign him without using a TPE


No they won’t. The MLE and BAE count against the cap, so they would still be over the cap. And that’s only if they decline the option on Goga (which they have to decide in October before the season starts) for next season that it’s even close.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 12,277
And1: 2,222
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#49 » by Wizop » Sun Aug 8, 2021 9:22 pm

Topofthekey wrote:I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap.


They'd probably be over the cap but under the tax. They could take on salary but they'd need to use exemptions or exceptions.

Sent from my phone.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#50 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 8, 2021 9:31 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Not necessarily. It’s good for another year, so in theory, they could let Warren walk, and replace him with someone that makes $7.3m or so instead. In that hypothetical, it would allow them to cut payroll by using the TPE, in a way.

I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap, so if they wanted someone for $7m they can probably just outright sign him without using a TPE


No they won’t. The MLE and BAE count against the cap, so they would still be over the cap. And that’s only if they decline the option on Goga (which they have to decide in October before the season starts) for next season that it’s even close.

How much guaranteed salary do they have in 2023?
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 12,277
And1: 2,222
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#51 » by Wizop » Sun Aug 8, 2021 9:44 pm

Topofthekey wrote:How much guaranteed salary do they have in 2023?


Very little. Sabonis will have one more year and McConnell has a new longer contract and there are the rookie deals. Oh, and Warren's new contract. Turner, Brogdon, and LeVert will be free agents.

Google Pacer contracts for charts.

Sent from my phone.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#52 » by Topofthekey » Sun Aug 8, 2021 10:39 pm

Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:How much guaranteed salary do they have in 2023?


Very little. Sabonis will have one more year and McConnell has a new longer contract and there are the rookie deals. Oh, and Warren's new contract. Turner, Brogdon, and LeVert will be free agents.

Google Pacer contracts for charts.

Sent from my phone.

I used to do that, until I was told that the info on a lot of these sites are not accurate
User avatar
Jstock12
RealGM
Posts: 10,001
And1: 16,707
Joined: Jun 24, 2012

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#53 » by Jstock12 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 11:51 am

Topofthekey wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:How much guaranteed salary do they have in 2023?


Very little. Sabonis will have one more year and McConnell has a new longer contract and there are the rookie deals. Oh, and Warren's new contract. Turner, Brogdon, and LeVert will be free agents.

Google Pacer contracts for charts.

Sent from my phone.

I used to do that, until I was told that the info on a lot of these sites are not accurate


http://www.shamsports.com/capulator
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#54 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 9, 2021 12:01 pm

BasketballInsiders.com is pretty good. On a desktop, hover over the players names and you get some of the info on their contracts. A little slow to update after major movements like right now, though.

Spotrac.com is probably leading the way going forward in terms of accuracy and speed. Keith Smith (Smitty) shut down his contract sheets and took a job at Spotrac.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#55 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 9, 2021 12:01 pm

Jstock12 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Very little. Sabonis will have one more year and McConnell has a new longer contract and there are the rookie deals. Oh, and Warren's new contract. Turner, Brogdon, and LeVert will be free agents.

Google Pacer contracts for charts.

Sent from my phone.

I used to do that, until I was told that the info on a lot of these sites are not accurate


http://www.shamsports.com/capulator


Capulator is a fun tool but definitely misses stuff. I think they still haven’t got Oshae Brissett listed on there for the Pacers.
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#56 » by Topofthekey » Mon Aug 9, 2021 4:55 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Not necessarily. It’s good for another year, so in theory, they could let Warren walk, and replace him with someone that makes $7.3m or so instead. In that hypothetical, it would allow them to cut payroll by using the TPE, in a way.

I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap, so if they wanted someone for $7m they can probably just outright sign him without using a TPE


No they won’t. The MLE and BAE count against the cap, so they would still be over the cap. And that’s only if they decline the option on Goga (which they have to decide in October before the season starts) for next season that it’s even close.


Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21



Pacers will have $105m in guaranteed salary in '23. The salary cap is going to be at $119m, so it does look like they have about $14m in cap space available if Warren and Lamb walked

They can even pick up the options of Goga and Brissett, and they'd still have about $8m left in cap space

So it does look like they can simply sign someone at $7m to replace Warren if they wanted to, without needing a TPE
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#57 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 9, 2021 5:12 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:I mean, if they let both Warren and Lamb walk, they'll be under the salary cap, so if they wanted someone for $7m they can probably just outright sign him without using a TPE


No they won’t. The MLE and BAE count against the cap, so they would still be over the cap. And that’s only if they decline the option on Goga (which they have to decide in October before the season starts) for next season that it’s even close.


Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21



Pacers will have $105m in guaranteed salary in '23. The salary cap is going to be at $119m, so it does look like they have about $14m in cap space available if Warren and Lamb walked

They can even pick up the options of Goga and Brissett, and they'd still have about $8m left in cap space

So it does look like they can simply sign someone at $7m to replace Warren if they wanted to, without needing a TPE


For the summer of 2022, You would have to renounce the rights to Warren, Lamb, Sumner, and Martin, and would have to give away our 1st round pick next year. Add in the cap holds for at least a 1st round pick, and the minimum roster charges (each player you have less than 13 gets a minimum roster charge added to your cap), and in this case, you’re likely at around $9m in cap space, or once the cap charge for the MLE is added on, you’re over the cap. So, likely still operating as an over the cap team.

So, if you say they could get to $8m under the cap, so they don’t need the $7.4m TPE, you’d be renouncing the use of the MLE (around $10m), so you’d be giving up a $7.4m TPE and the $10m MLE, all to use around $8m under the cap (realistically, $5m after accounting for a 1st rounders cap hold). So, the ability to sign someone for $5m with cap space, and then a $5m room exception? Or, keep the bird rights to Warren, use a $7.4m TPE, AND use the full MLE to sign someone for up to $10m?

For the summer of 2023, yeah, you could be under the cap if you don’t re-sign Warren, and renounce guys like Brogdon and Turner. But the TPE would be expired by then anyway.

To be under the cap and make it worthwhile, you absolutely have to get well under the cap to do so.
User avatar
Wizop
RealGM
Posts: 12,277
And1: 2,222
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Contact:
   

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#58 » by Wizop » Mon Aug 9, 2021 5:51 pm

Topofthekey wrote:So it does look like they can simply sign someone at $7m to replace Warren if they wanted to, without needing a TPE


even if they could, why should they want to add a $7mm guy to the roster instead of Warren? I suppose the answer could be because Warren has a bad 21-22 season but I wouldn't want that to happen.
Please edit long quotes to only show what puts your new message into context.
Topofthekey
Veteran
Posts: 2,949
And1: 1,106
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#59 » by Topofthekey » Mon Aug 9, 2021 6:07 pm

Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:So it does look like they can simply sign someone at $7m to replace Warren if they wanted to, without needing a TPE


even if they could, why should they want to add a $7mm guy to the roster instead of Warren? I suppose the answer could be because Warren has a bad 21-22 season but I wouldn't want that to happen.

It was a reference to the hypothetical situation where they wanted to use the TPE to get someone cheaper to replace Warren, suggested by Scoot
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 33,696
And1: 6,581
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: McDermott Signs with Spurs 3/$42m 

Post#60 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Aug 9, 2021 7:12 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:So it does look like they can simply sign someone at $7m to replace Warren if they wanted to, without needing a TPE


even if they could, why should they want to add a $7mm guy to the roster instead of Warren? I suppose the answer could be because Warren has a bad 21-22 season but I wouldn't want that to happen.

It was a reference to the hypothetical situation where they wanted to use the TPE to get someone cheaper to replace Warren, suggested by Scoot



Oh, I’m not suggesting they do that. I Merely was pushing back against a part of your post.

Return to Indiana Pacers