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Hiring Rick Carlisle has been presented as a WIN-NOW move. But the argument could be made that the roster may not necessarily reflect that. With the East vastly improving, a number of "experts" do not even have us in the top half of the Conference.

So, if you're KP, what WIN-NOW Trade do you make? Considering who's available (Ben Simmons, John Wall) and who could be (Damian Lillard, Bradley Beal, Karl Anthony-Towns, Kristaps Porzingis, etc.), who do you go for and what do you realistically think it would take to make it happen?

Wall wouldn’t be a win now trade. Simmons might be, but he’s a tough fit and tough value, that after paying up for him, it might be a lose now trade.

Lillard, Beal, KAT aren’t going to be dealt. And if they are, then it’ll be to a specific locale the player wants. If they want to come here, you figure it out. If they don’t, then you don’t worry. I don’t see a Porzingis a fit, nor an improvement over either of Turner or Sabonis. For a Simmons, I’d be intrigued, but I’d need to know that he would WANT to be here in Indy and that the issues will be addressed.

I don’t know who the realistic win now targets might be. Maybe Ingram comes available?

I'm pretty confident that we're going to ride with what we have for now. I can see some movement at the bottom of the roster if someone on a camp deal or two way outplays Kelan Martin in training camp, but that's all for now.

winning depends a lot upon health but you aren't going to move an injured player for a superstar. just read Scott Agness' media day email which reports an internal expectation of 4th or 5th. I'm fine waiting to see what health and coaching can do before shopping starters.

Here's something that I'd like for us to consider

Carlisle is a very good coach, and he has a 4 year contract with the Pacers

While I LOVE internal development (over the last few years I've been constantly criticizing the Pacers for not allocating enough playing time for rookies and young players), I hope the team doesn't waste even one single year of Rick Carlisle's tenure, unless it can't be helped

The realization is that even though there is value in being patient and allowing your players to develope, doing so also comes at a hidden cost, in terms of the passage of time

With Carlisle's signing, the Pacers currently has a 4 year window to compete

Let's not completely mortgage the future. But it does make sense to make some win now upgrades to the roster, so that this 4 year window does not get squandered

Topofthekey wrote:Here's something that I'd like for us to consider

Carlisle is a very good coach, and he has a 4 year contract with the Pacers

While I LOVE internal development (over the last few years I've been constantly criticizing the Pacers for not allocating enough playing time for rookies and young players), I hope the team doesn't waste even one single year of Rick Carlisle's tenure, unless it can't be helped

The realization is that even though there is value in being patient and allowing your players to develope, doing so also comes at a hidden cost, in terms of the passage of time

With Carlisle's signing, the Pacers currently has a 4 year window to compete

Let's not completely mortgage the future. But it does make sense to make some win now upgrades to the roster, so that this 4 year window does not get squandered

I imagine the Pacers would be ecstatic to make affordable upgrade or win-now type trades. I think there’s just not many teams willing to make cheap, lose-now type trades of an affordable nature. The nexus of where those meet is the problem. We saw them recently try and trade for Hayward, until that got to be a wild overpay. I think we’ll keep seeing them work those avenues.

Topofthekey wrote:Here's something that I'd like for us to consider

Carlisle is a very good coach, and he has a 4 year contract with the Pacers

While I LOVE internal development (over the last few years I've been constantly criticizing the Pacers for not allocating enough playing time for rookies and young players), I hope the team doesn't waste even one single year of Rick Carlisle's tenure, unless it can't be helped

The realization is that even though there is value in being patient and allowing your players to develope, doing so also comes at a hidden cost, in terms of the passage of time

With Carlisle's signing, the Pacers currently has a 4 year window to compete

Let's not completely mortgage the future. But it does make sense to make some win now upgrades to the roster, so that this 4 year window does not get squandered

I agree with your hidden cost analysis. NBA player’s bodies only hold up so long before they are on the backside of their careers and while still talented it’s not like in their prime years.

I’m all for seeing what transpires this season and reacting ASAP at the trade deadline or in the upcoming off season.

Not only is Carlisle on the clock, but more so we need to build with as youthful and experienced stars as possible to compliment Duarte and hopefully future draft standouts to form a better future winning core than currently.

I think what Rick Carlisle has called the "strength in numbers" approach is the right one for our market and team. It is no fun for me to speculate that star player X or Y might be interested in coming here. They aren't.

There are some possible upgrades to be made in trade I'm sure. I just don't find speculating about Dame or Simmons very interesting. It ain't happening.

Been seeing a lot of press of how we're the "sleeper team" to make a Ben Simmons trade happen.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264266/Pacers-Are-Sleeper-Team-In-Ben-Simmons-Trade-Talks

Some versions have us sending Brogdon + TJW + 2 FRPs; others have it involving Domas. Dunno if I'm overvaluing our players, but those are pretty steep for "just" Ben Simmons.

Would he really move the needle in taking us past the first round?

I don't doubt Simmons ability to get out of the first round. Despite his obvious limitations, he is a really good player.

I would be all about the move if he wasn't a player that sounds like he would bolt to a larger market given the first chance. And that's a tough thing given what happened with PG and Oladipo.

Just basketball? Put him at the 4 next to Turner and I think it would be awesome.

boomershadow wrote:I don't doubt Simmons ability to get out of the first round. Despite his obvious limitations, he is a really good player.

I would be all about the move if he wasn't a player that sounds like he would bolt to a larger market given the first chance. And that's a tough thing given what happened with PG and Oladipo.

Just basketball? Put him at the 4 next to Turner and I think it would be awesome.

The one upside to that is that Simmons is signed for 4 more years, so there’s some solid okay time before he could “bolt”.

I also have no idea what the cost for Simmons would be, and my feelings on acquiring him depend solely on that.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

boomershadow wrote:I don't doubt Simmons ability to get out of the first round. Despite his obvious limitations, he is a really good player.

I would be all about the move if he wasn't a player that sounds like he would bolt to a larger market given the first chance. And that's a tough thing given what happened with PG and Oladipo.

Just basketball? Put him at the 4 next to Turner and I think it would be awesome.

The one upside to that is that Simmons is signed for 4 more years, so there’s some solid okay time before he could “bolt”.

I also have no idea what the cost for Simmons would be, and my feelings on acquiring him depend solely on that.

Well, Simmons has 4 more years on his contract. Carlisle signed a 4 year contract. If Simmons do end up playing under Carlisle, then it looks like Pacers will have at least a 4 year window to do something

I'm not sure what's a fair price for him though (from Pacers perspective). LeVert and Warren probably have very little trade value so it's not worth trading them. I'd like to hang on to Duarte and Goga and Jackson and watch them develope. I'm not sure who should be the centrepiece of a Simmons trade, Myles or Domas or Brogdon

Myles and Simmons makes a terrific defensive 5 and 4 pairing as noted by boomershadow

Domas and Simmons, although awkward at first glance, could be interesting if it works, having the two tallest players among the starters being the two best facilitators/passers. It's weird enough that I actually want to see how it works

But what if the trade end up being Brogdon + fillers + picks?

Does that mean they keep the Myles + Domas pairing and have Simmons play PG? So the Pacers end up with one of the tallest starting lineups in the league?

Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Indy trades
Sabonis
Brogdon
Warren
filler
FRP

Philly trades
Simmons
Harris
Milton

The secondary players could change but a core deal of Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons and Tobias Harris. Harris would be a much better fit next to Turner he's a "near" all star quality PF and consistent. Simmons gives you a star and 4 years (3 with Harris) to build a winner and draw another FA in the future. Sixers are balanced with Sabonis and Brogdon starting with Embiid, Green and Curry. TJ off the bench

Phillyboy wrote:Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Indy trades
Sabonis
Brogdon
Warren
filler
FRP

Philly trades
Simmons
Harris
Milton

The secondary players could change but a core deal of Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons and Tobias Harris. Harris would be a much better fit next to Turner he's a "near" all star quality PF and consistent. Simmons gives you a star and 4 years (3 with Harris) to build a winner and draw another FA in the future. Sixers are balanced with Sabonis and Brogdon starting with Embiid, Green and Curry. TJ off the bench

It seems we both wandered into the Pacers board after reading the headline.

I hate to burst the bubble but, the bolded won't likely be moving in any potential deal between these two teams.

It'd likely be Turner, Brogdon picks and filler for Ben Simmons and filler.

Assuming the report is even remotely accurate.

TdotRap4Lyfe wrote:

Phillyboy wrote:Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Indy trades
Sabonis
Brogdon
Warren
filler
FRP

Philly trades
Simmons
Harris
Milton

The secondary players could change but a core deal of Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons and Tobias Harris. Harris would be a much better fit next to Turner he's a "near" all star quality PF and consistent. Simmons gives you a star and 4 years (3 with Harris) to build a winner and draw another FA in the future. Sixers are balanced with Sabonis and Brogdon starting with Embiid, Green and Curry. TJ off the bench

It seems we both wandered into the Pacers board after reading the headline.

I hate to burst the bubble but, the bolded won't likely be moving in any potential deal between these two teams.

It'd likely be Turner, Brogdon picks and filler for Ben Simmons and filler.

Assuming the report is even remotely accurate.

Maybe they don't trade PFs but it won't be Turner to Philly. Indy has been trying to move Turner for a while not a good fit with Sabonis. Besides Philly has no need for Turner. And Brogdon for Simmons doesn't cut it. If Indy wants Simmons the deal will have to get sweeter. If Sabonis was really on the table as some speculate then the Sixers would have to move Harris. But you and I trolled in here so I'm wondering what the Indy fans think.

Phillyboy wrote:Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Indy trades
Sabonis
Brogdon
Warren
filler
FRP

Philly trades
Simmons
Harris
Milton

The secondary players could change but a core deal of Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons and Tobias Harris. Harris would be a much better fit next to Turner he's a "near" all star quality PF and consistent. Simmons gives you a star and 4 years (3 with Harris) to build a winner and draw another FA in the future. Sixers are balanced with Sabonis and Brogdon starting with Embiid, Green and Curry. TJ off the bench

You’ve added $17m or more to the books in Indy, putting us WELL into the luxury tax this season. In fact, with trade kickers and such, this puts Indy $23m into the tax, for a tax payment of over $56m. This is just a complete non starter. Indy isn’t he team to pay out almost $80m in extra cash this season on a single trade.

Phillyboy wrote:

TdotRap4Lyfe wrote:

Phillyboy wrote:Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Indy trades
Sabonis
Brogdon
Warren
filler
FRP

Philly trades
Simmons
Harris
Milton

The secondary players could change but a core deal of Sabonis and Brogdon for Simmons and Tobias Harris. Harris would be a much better fit next to Turner he's a "near" all star quality PF and consistent. Simmons gives you a star and 4 years (3 with Harris) to build a winner and draw another FA in the future. Sixers are balanced with Sabonis and Brogdon starting with Embiid, Green and Curry. TJ off the bench

It seems we both wandered into the Pacers board after reading the headline.

I hate to burst the bubble but, the bolded won't likely be moving in any potential deal between these two teams.

It'd likely be Turner, Brogdon picks and filler for Ben Simmons and filler.

Assuming the report is even remotely accurate.

Maybe they don't trade PFs but it won't be Turner to Philly. Indy has been trying to move Turner for a while not a good fit with Sabonis. Besides Philly has no need for Turner. And Brogdon for Simmons doesn't cut it. If Indy wants Simmons the deal will have to get sweeter. If Sabonis was really on the table as some speculate then the Sixers would have to move Harris. But you and I trolled in here so I'm wondering what the Indy fans think.

I think Indy is keeping in touch and listening to Philly inn case we can possibly get a discounted trade, much like we did when we got paid to take TJ Warren simply by staying in contact with Phoenix and being ready at the right time.

If Indy was willing to deal Sabonis/Brogdon/picks for Simmons, seems like Ben would have been a Pacer a LONG time ago, right?

Phillyboy wrote:Indy has been trying to move Turner for a while not a good fit with Sabonis.

this is not at all clear. there were rumors a year ago that had Turner included in a Boston trade that never happened. since then no one knows for sure if the Pacers have been trying to move Turner or other teams have been trying to get him or if it is all smoke.

my view is that neither Turner nor Sabonis are good fits with Embiid so any trade bringing Simmons to Indy would probably involve at least three teams.

Scoot McGroot wrote:You’ve added $17m or more to the books in Indy

multiple sources say Philly has put 8.5mm in escrow. if that money is paid to Simmons before a trade, does that lower the amount that would count on the Pacer books?

Wizop wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:You’ve added $17m or more to the books in Indy

multiple sources say Philly has put 8.5mm in escrow. if that money is paid to Simmons before a trade, does that lower the amount that would count on the Pacer books?

Consider it relatively a wash as we would have to pay Brogdon, Warren, Sabonis up until that point.

Philly will have to pay that salary. It’s not going to change any salary calculations.

Phillyboy wrote:Want a win now trade? What if the deal expanded?

Not in this lifetime.

Look, Simmons is Philly's problem and they are more than welcome to keep him.