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Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm

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Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#1 » by ducler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:44 pm

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#2 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 pm

Duarte out again tonight with the shoulder.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#3 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:49 pm

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#4 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:21 am

Good to see Carlisle recognizing Kelan Martin’s recent play earning more minutes and a start.

Caitlin wrote that Holiday shoots better coming off the bench so hopefully it works.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#5 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:26 am

Can sum up the Pacers first half play with these stats. Pacers 4 steals 14 turnovers. Pistons 11 steals only 9 turnovers. Sloppy

Everything else stat wise pretty even. Again too much guard play and not enough set plays.

Sabonis 1-2 vs LeVert 0-5
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#6 » by Wizop » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:27 am

yuck

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#7 » by Pacers Forever » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:57 am

Another troubling loss :noway:
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#8 » by Topofthekey » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:08 am

7 FGA for Domas, with 1 assist

Why does it look like the team's All Star isn't getting involved enough in the offense?

The two starting guards took 35 out of the team's 79 FGA

Did the two guards have to take that many shots because the two big setup is ineffective, or is the two big setup ineffective because the two guards are taking that many shots?
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#9 » by HurricaneDij25 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:01 am

Our castoff CoJo lit us up for 18 off the bench. Kind of pathetic and fitting…
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#10 » by 8305 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:09 am

Topofthekey wrote:7 FGA for Domas, with 1 assist

Why does it look like the team's All Star isn't getting involved enough in the offense?

The two starting guards took 35 out of the team's 79 FGA

Did the two guards have to take that many shots because the two big setup is ineffective, or is the two big setup ineffective because the two guards are taking that many shots?

Looks like the offense grinds to halt when Levert and Brogdan are hunting shots. At the same time Sabonis and Turner lose energy when watching Levert and Brogdan dribble? I think Carlisle noted the team missing Duarte. Is there enough evidence to say Duarte loss is bigger than getting Levert back?
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#11 » by Vorda » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:15 am

We need to trade Domas today...what a poor guy... TO machine... we will not reach PO this year with this limited players... bad decision was to give Brogdon new contract...it's time to rebuild... we lost against Detroit G league team... Joseph scored carrier high against us... I dont belive anymore
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#12 » by davidfr94 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:46 pm

8305 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:7 FGA for Domas, with 1 assist

Why does it look like the team's All Star isn't getting involved enough in the offense?

The two starting guards took 35 out of the team's 79 FGA

Did the two guards have to take that many shots because the two big setup is ineffective, or is the two big setup ineffective because the two guards are taking that many shots?

Looks like the offense grinds to halt when Levert and Brogdan are hunting shots. At the same time Sabonis and Turner lose energy when watching Levert and Brogdan dribble? I think Carlisle noted the team missing Duarte. Is there enough evidence to say Duarte loss is bigger than getting Levert back?
To me it says more about sabonis...
He had 5 turnovers. He has trouble scoring whenever he is defended by someone a bit strong or tall. Can't defend, can't shoot...
Imo, he kills our team on both side of the floor because he needs to be either paired with goga or Turner for us not to be killed on the defensive end.

We really have to make trades. I know we are always injured but at some point we have to stop looking for excuses and face reality : we lack talent.

Like vorda just said we have to trade sabonis now before teams realize how limited he is.

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#13 » by davidfr94 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:04 pm

8305 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:7 FGA for Domas, with 1 assist

Why does it look like the team's All Star isn't getting involved enough in the offense?

The two starting guards took 35 out of the team's 79 FGA

Did the two guards have to take that many shots because the two big setup is ineffective, or is the two big setup ineffective because the two guards are taking that many shots?

Looks like the offense grinds to halt when Levert and Brogdan are hunting shots. At the same time Sabonis and Turner lose energy when watching Levert and Brogdan dribble? I think Carlisle noted the team missing Duarte. Is there enough evidence to say Duarte loss is bigger than getting Levert back?
The thing is levert and brogdon are the only ones that can create off the dribble to score (with Duarte a bit but he is a rookie) so it is not like they really have a choice with Sabonis clogging the paint and the other two standing at the three point line.

We really need Warren to come back. We are so bad on offense that we need someone like torey Craig to score the ball.

I dont see how this team can be more than a play in team with this roster.

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#14 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:14 pm

davidfr94 wrote:The thing is levert and brogdon are the only ones that can create off the dribble to score (with Duarte a bit but he is a rookie)


This is quite true. And to a lesser extent, TJ McConnell for the bench unit can create off the dribble. Warren can create for himself off the dribble (when healthy, of course).
so it is not like they really have a choice with Sabonis clogging the paint and the other two standing at the three point line.


This I don't agree with. Unlike past years, the offense this year has not had Sabonis in the paint, except when he holds the ball. Otherwise, he's around the 3 point line and driving and dashing for open lanes, like everyone else. In theory, the issue could be that Sabonis isn't in the lane this year, like he has been the last 2 years. But I don't know.

More than anything with Sabonis, it's that the rest of our team can't seem to make an entry pass to him in the lane when he does have his defender sealed off.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#15 » by Wizop » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:28 pm

Scott Agness writes that the refs are allowing a more physical game and we aren't responding.

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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#16 » by 8305 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Vorda wrote:We need to trade Domas today...what a poor guy... TO machine... we will not reach PO this year with this limited players... bad decision was to give Brogdon new contract...it's time to rebuild... we lost against Detroit G league team... Joseph scored carrier high against us... I dont belive anymore


I don't know that I'm up for an all out rebuild yet. There are in my opinion some realities this team needs to recognize.
1. The restructuring of the summer of 2019 didn't take. Moves that undo that strategy should not be off limits.
2. Playing two bigs at the same time is ok to have in the tool kit but, assuming we can get away with it for major minutes every night is wrong. This team needs to harvest the best value they can for one of Turner or Sabonis.
3. There is a reason we were able to get Caris Levert for Vic when Vic had no value. On a good team he is an off the bench scorer. If his role is any more significant than that it will hurt the team overall. Decent chance he's viewed around the league as a negative contract.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#17 » by 8305 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:16 pm

Wizop wrote:Scott Agness writes that the refs are allowing a more physical game and we aren't responding.

Sent from my phone.


I expect Domas and Rick will figure out what teams are doing and adjust.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#18 » by Topofthekey » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:42 pm

davidfr94 wrote:
8305 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:7 FGA for Domas, with 1 assist

Why does it look like the team's All Star isn't getting involved enough in the offense?

The two starting guards took 35 out of the team's 79 FGA

Did the two guards have to take that many shots because the two big setup is ineffective, or is the two big setup ineffective because the two guards are taking that many shots?

Looks like the offense grinds to halt when Levert and Brogdan are hunting shots. At the same time Sabonis and Turner lose energy when watching Levert and Brogdan dribble? I think Carlisle noted the team missing Duarte. Is there enough evidence to say Duarte loss is bigger than getting Levert back?
To me it says more about sabonis...
He had 5 turnovers. He has trouble scoring whenever he is defended by someone a bit strong or tall. Can't defend, can't shoot...
Imo, he kills our team on both side of the floor because he needs to be either paired with goga or Turner for us not to be killed on the defensive end.

We really have to make trades. I know we are always injured but at some point we have to stop looking for excuses and face reality : we lack talent.

Like vorda just said we have to trade sabonis now before teams realize how limited he is.

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I mean, Domas was great with Doug though

The thing about Domas is, it looks to me that whenever he catches the ball his first instinct is to locate where his teammates are and look for the cutter or open man

Doug was pretty good at moving without the ball, and he benefited a lot from receiving the passes from Domas. It's probably no coincidence that after averaging 13.6 PPG playing with Domas last season he's now averaging 10.4 PPG with the Spurs. Domas' assist stat too has dropped from 6.7 APG last season to 3.7 APG this season

To me, one of the problem with this year's iteration of Pacers is that whenever Domas catches the ball he glances at his teammates but the 4 other Pacer on the floor would be just standing there watching him

It's not that Domas is limited or anything, it's just that the current team does not come close to scratching the surface of the style of basketball that Domas plays

I'm pretty sure if you surround Domas with active cutters and lob threats like Aaron Gordon and Isaiah Jackson the offense is going to look much better. Athletic guards who are good at using screens like Zach Lavine will probably execute the PnR very well with Domas. I think even McCollum will be great here

But yea, the team is a bit of a mess. Too many injuries, poor fit, and not enough talent overall
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#19 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:43 am

Good discussion :) This season is becoming more experimental than I thought it possibly ever could with this coaching staff trying to cut and paste. I really didn’t take into account how difficult a transition it is for an almost entirely new coaching staff to implement an offense that isn’t working very well with the team talent here. Very few feel good moments this year for this fan.

Ultimately this is causing us to question each Pacer player’s worth and ability.

So many blown leads, offensive dry spells, sloppy play, poor shot opportunities, desperate shots at the shot clock expiring, poor defense. So many games where they’re in the game but find a way to lose OR the other teams find a way to close out the game.

I’m laying the blame on Pritchard and the coaches trying to figure out how to make the drastic changes to the organization rather than the players being totally at fault.

We don’t know but it’s possible that this is by design hoping to win nightly, but ultimately to see what they have and which players they want going forward with an active trade deadline planned for Carlisle’s future tenure rebuild.
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Re: Game 16 @ Detroit 7pm 

Post#20 » by Pacers Forever » Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:03 am

Only blown out 1 game this season which was Toronto by 18. As we know all other losses have been close at 10 points or less losing games that we shouldn’t have.

They’re not Houston rebuild talent bad but are playing like it and that to me says it’s not the talent as much as it’s the process, the scheme, the fit, the lineup decisions, the rotations, the coaching.

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