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Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#221 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 9, 2022 1:47 pm

davidfr94 wrote:I have criticized sabonis a lot since the beggining of the year.

But his recent play, and not just today but since brogdon and levert have been out of the lineup, has made me reconsider things.

Indeed, it's possible that his struggles were more a result of guard play and coaching.
Something some of you have been telling us.

Sykes, Washington and especially Stephenson have done a wonderfull job with Sabonis.

Also, he is shooting a LOT better lately and he is totally different player when his shot is falling.
Plus, it makes the pairing with Turner a lot more dangerous.

Rick needs to put levert on the bench and tell brogdon to share the ball more on offense.

Maybe start lance and let brogdon play off ball more ?

I was more on the "let's trade every one and rebuild" but seeing how our team has been playing lately, i'm more willing to let the year play out.

I would try to keep Turner, Sabonis (make him work all summer on his shot), holliday, lance, Stephenson, Duarte of course and maybe Warren if he comes back well.
Even brogdon but more on a complimentary role. He is at best a third option.

I would be ok trading the rest of the team.

If we can find a way to grab a defensive pass first point guard (rubio type), a 3 and D wing and a good iso scorer if we let Warren walk i think we can be competitive imo.

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To me, let's start with a new rule that "until further notice, no guard should play more than 25-30 minutes per night. We have some depth, and guys that will play the system we need, so everyone should work their butt off on movement/motion on offense, and working on defense, and we'll sub you out with fresh legs when needed", and go from there. Brogdon and Levert shouldn't be playing 35 minutes each when we now know that Sykes and Washington could be good for 20 minutes a night, and Duarte/Lance for 20-25 minutes a night. That's a lot of time there.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#222 » by pacers33granger » Sun Jan 9, 2022 2:28 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
To me, let's start with a new rule that "until further notice, no guard should play more than 25-30 minutes per night. We have some depth, and guys that will play the system we need, so everyone should work their butt off on movement/motion on offense, and working on defense, and we'll sub you out with fresh legs when needed", and go from there. Brogdon and Levert shouldn't be playing 35 minutes each when we now know that Sykes and Washington could be good for 20 minutes a night, and Duarte/Lance for 20-25 minutes a night. That's a lot of time there.


This could really be the key. Brogdon/LeVert (and Domas) were playing too many minutes and burning out. It won't make them great creators, but should help. I hope Rick has a short leash with them when they're back. Not Oshae short, but short.

I also am beginning to think more that McConnell may have been part of the issue on offense with his shooting. Those wide open shots he was getting early in the year are being knocked down by Washington and Sykes. He's still a very useful player and great guy, though I wonder how much time we'll be able to give him going forward.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#223 » by Wizop » Sun Jan 9, 2022 4:25 pm

Lance has provided the second unit energy that we lost when TJ went down. I like him coming off the bench although he might also close each half

I agree with the comments that say we need to play a deeper roster. It is more about fresh legs in the 4th than player development. Sykes shows leadership I didn't expect, but both he and Washington can be exploited on defense. They have shown though that outside shooting makes a big difference.

I assume Lance gets a contract Tuesday. His hardship expires after Monday's game.

I really want to see this team with Warren at the 3. Duarte needs to move back to the 2. Lance will get him shots.

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#224 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 9, 2022 4:49 pm

This is pretty amazing.

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#225 » by Wizop » Sun Jan 9, 2022 8:56 pm

We had our teams reversed. It's the Colts who need to blow it up.

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#226 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 9, 2022 9:17 pm

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#227 » by 8305 » Sun Jan 9, 2022 10:49 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:This is pretty amazing.

Read on Twitter
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I know I’ve been back and forth on this. I don’t see how Pacers trade Sabonis. I think it’s easier to find two way players than another playmaker on the level of Sabonis. It appears to me he adds something to his game every year. So for me, Turner needs to go.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#228 » by Wizop » Sun Jan 9, 2022 11:11 pm

8305 wrote:I know I’ve been back and forth on this. I don’t see how Pacers trade Sabonis. I think it’s easier to find two way players than another playmaker on the level of Sabonis. It appears to me he adds something to his game every year. So for me, Turner needs to go.


I don't follow. Why does Sabonis staying mean Turner must go? Lance seems to be showing we had a backcourt issue. I don't see a front court problem unless you think Myles needs to play more than 30 minutes a game to earn his contract.

FWIW, Turner has also added to his game.

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#229 » by 8305 » Sun Jan 9, 2022 11:43 pm

Wizop wrote:
8305 wrote:I know I’ve been back and forth on this. I don’t see how Pacers trade Sabonis. I think it’s easier to find two way players than another playmaker on the level of Sabonis. It appears to me he adds something to his game every year. So for me, Turner needs to go.


I don't follow. Why does Sabonis staying mean Turner must go? Lance seems to be showing we had a backcourt issue. I don't see a front court problem unless you think Myles needs to play more than 30 minutes a game to earn his contract.

FWIW, Turner has also added to his game.

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No argument, Turner has added to his game. Still have the issue that two prospects Goga and Jackson will get no run as long as we have both Turner and Sabonis. I also think the likelihood of re-signing Turner is minimal as long he’s stuck playing with Sabonis. Aside from our young guys Turner is the only tradable piece with any value. For me the only way of meaningfully improving this team is trading Turner.

As for Lance, I like him better than Levert. Is he the answer to everything that’s wrong with this team? It would sure be a great story.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#230 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:17 am

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#231 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:31 am

I like this team a lot better with Lance, Sykes, and Washington

To me, the roster should look something like this

Myles, Goga
Domas, Brissett, Jackson
???, Holiday, Craig
Duarte, Washington
Sykes, Lance

Brogdon and LeVert (and possibly McConnell) should be moved to for someone to fill the ???

Some may question giving the starting PG role to Sykes, but honestly I think it's fine having a role player among the starters, instead of 5 $20m guys
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#232 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:56 am

Topofthekey wrote:I like this team a lot better with Lance, Sykes, and Washington

To me, the roster should look something like this

Myles, Goga
Domas, Brissett, Jackson
???, Holiday, Craig
Duarte, Washington
Sykes, Lance

Brogdon and LeVert (and possibly McConnell) should be moved to for someone to fill the ???

Some may question giving the starting PG role to Sykes, but honestly I think it's fine having a role player among the starters, instead of 5 $20m guys
The ??? is still Warren. We still get 15 slots and Washington is a two way so there's room for Brogdon and LeVert for now.

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#233 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:03 am

Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:I like this team a lot better with Lance, Sykes, and Washington

To me, the roster should look something like this

Myles, Goga
Domas, Brissett, Jackson
???, Holiday, Craig
Duarte, Washington
Sykes, Lance

Brogdon and LeVert (and possibly McConnell) should be moved to for someone to fill the ???

Some may question giving the starting PG role to Sykes, but honestly I think it's fine having a role player among the starters, instead of 5 $20m guys
The ??? is still Warren. We still get 15 slots and Washington is a two way so there's room for Brogdon and LeVert for now.

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Yup. I was thinking in terms of next season

For now, they should trade for Kyle Anderson or Cedi Osman and then play out the season
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#234 » by Wizop » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:16 am

Topofthekey wrote:Yup. I was thinking in terms of next season


If Lance and Warren create a miracle, we'll all be happy. If not, Plan B is a lottery pick

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#235 » by countryboy667 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:48 am

With what Lance, Sykes, Washington and others have brought to this team, I'm comfortable with seeing how the season plays out. There's nothing holy or set in stone that says that even in today's three-mad league two bigs can't work well if they are in the right situation. The last couple of games give at least a hint that with the proper people at guard, it can work. Maybe instead of looking to move one of our bigs, Levert should be the one we try to move. I still want to see this team with a healthy Warren at the three beside Myles and Domas.

I go along with the idea of fresh legs. Some of our guys have been playing too many minutes and should have them cut. We are blessed to have good depth--we need to take advantage of it. Keep our two bigs fresh as well--give Goga some minutes. He showed recently in the G league that maybe all he needs is a little playing time. Obviously I haven't seen much of him--I only watch the game replays--but from what I've gathered he brings some of what both Domas and Myles bring to the game. True?

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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#236 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:31 am

Wizop wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Yup. I was thinking in terms of next season


If Lance and Warren create a miracle, we'll all be happy. If not, Plan B is a lottery pick

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And then trade Brogdon and LeVert
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#237 » by boomershadow » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:15 pm

Most of the time i've been on the trade Sabonis before Turner bandwagon because Sabonis probably has greater perceived value and name recognition, and also because Turner has been so dedicated to the team and is a good backbone to a defense that the team still claims to be a major goal.

But the Lance/Sabonis chemistry is undeniable.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#238 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:43 pm

From todays Shams Charania update
Indiana Pacers

Rival teams are ramping up conversations with the Pacers involving guard Caris LeVert and center Myles Turner. The Mavericks and Knicks are expressing interest in trading for Turner, sources said. The Lakers and Hornets have had a level of interest in Turner as well, sources added. The Cavaliers are among interested teams in LeVert, those sources said, as he would provide a combo guard able to handle the ball and playmaker in the season-ending absence of Collin Sexton and Rubio.

Turner is the NBA’s leading shot-blocker, averaging 2.9 blocks along with 13.1 points and 7.3 rebounds per game Indiana is 15-25 on the season and four games out of a Play-In Tournament seed.

The Athletic reported on Dec. 7 that the Pacers would potentially move toward a rebuild and were receptive to trade conversations around Domantas Sabonis, LeVert and Turner. The Pacers have an extremely high value on Sabonis, rival executives say, which makes a trade unlikelier for the two-time All-Star big man.


Also mentions Indy as a potential Ben Simmons suitor, but just in passing.
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#239 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm

LeVert + Lamb for Okoro + Rubio

KP please make it happen
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Re: Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks 

Post#240 » by pacers33granger » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:49 pm

The list of teams interested in Myles is underwhelming. I don't see much that we should want from those teams outside of huge overpays for Myles.

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