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Pacers, Spurs, Raptors

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Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#1 » by 8305 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:15 am

Pacers trade Myles Turner and Oshae Brissett
Receive Thad Young, Devin Vassell, Toronto 2022 FRP
Spurs trade Thad Young, Jakob Poeltl, Devin Vassell
' Receive Myles Turner, Oshae Brissett
Raptors trade Chris Biurcher, 2022 FRP
Receive Jakob Poeltl

Pacers move a center and get two nice young pieces.
Spurs upgrade their center position and get a young power forward prospect. They have good depth at the 2/3 position so it would seem one would be expendable.
Raptors get their guy (Poeltep
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#2 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:53 am

I’d think Toronto would want to lotto protect or top 20 protect that 1st. Otherwise, I don’t think Vassell is getting moved at all.

But if we can get a true foundational rookie contract in moving Turner (Vassell, Pat Williams, Mitchell, Kuminga, whomever), we gotta take it.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#3 » by basketballwacko2 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:26 am

8305 wrote:Pacers trade Myles Turner and Oshae Brissett
Receive Thad Young, Devin Vassell, Toronto 2022 FRP
Spurs trade Thad Young, Jakob Poeltl, Devin Vassell
' Receive Myles Turner, Oshae Brissett
Raptors trade Chris Biurcher, 2022 FRP
Receive Jakob Poeltl

Pacers move a center and get two nice young pieces.
Spurs upgrade their center position and get a young power forward prospect. They have good depth at the 2/3 position so it would seem one would be expendable.
Raptors get their guy (Poeltep


I saw something like this on the trade board. I don't think this is good enough. Yes Toronto is expressing interest in Poeltl. If we are trading Turner to the Spurs I want Murray or White and Keldon Johnson.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#4 » by 8305 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:56 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:
8305 wrote:Pacers trade Myles Turner and Oshae Brissett
Receive Thad Young, Devin Vassell, Toronto 2022 FRP
Spurs trade Thad Young, Jakob Poeltl, Devin Vassell
' Receive Myles Turner, Oshae Brissett
Raptors trade Chris Biurcher, 2022 FRP
Receive Jakob Poeltl

Pacers move a center and get two nice young pieces.
Spurs upgrade their center position and get a young power forward prospect. They have good depth at the 2/3 position so it would seem one would be expendable.
Raptors get their guy (Poeltep


I saw something like this on the trade board. I don't think this is good enough. Yes Toronto is expressing interest in Poeltl. If we are trading Turner to the Spurs I want Murray or White and Keldon Johnson.

I’ve posted trades on the trade board proposing either of our centers for Murray and been told Spurs aren’t trading Murray. I get it. Centers are generally not valued that highly. A solid pg is more valuable than a good center. Similar to the Colts. A generational guard not as impactful as a competent left tackle.

I would take any of Vassell, Johnson or Primo back for Turner straight up. Like Scoot says if we can get a solid rookie contract guy and an expiring contract in return for Turner we have to take it. As for White, I see him as a poor man’s Brogdan. I’d rather have a rookie contract.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#5 » by Topofthekey » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:57 pm

This is selling quite low on Turner

The pick looks like late first round. Vassell doesn't feel like someone with star potential. I see him more as a role player. I don't think he's going to be more than a 3rd or 4th option type on offense, and I'd consider ourselves lucky if he turns out to be 70-80% the player Turner is on defense

Like Wacko said, if I'm trading Turner to Spurs, I'd want Murray in return

It's unlikely they'd move Murray, I know. But we can't sell low on our players just because the other team doesn't want to part with their best assets

Turner is top 10, top 5 even, at his position, and he's one of the best at doing what he does. He leads the league in blocks, and no one in the top 15 for blocks per game shoots the 3P as well as him, out side of Bamba and Embiid. Turners' 3P% isn't great when you compare it to the league's guards and forwards, but it's absolutely elite when you do an apple to apple comparison and compare it to big men

We have to recognize Turner's value, and approach any trades for him that way. I die a little bit inside every time I see people proposing trading Turner for a bunch of role players

To clarify, I'm not holding out for a star. I'm just not settling for role players. Someone like Dejounte Murray is the right kind of return I'd want for Turner
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#6 » by Tom White » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:06 pm

8305 wrote:Pacers trade Myles Turner and Oshae Brissett
Receive Thad Young, Devin Vassell, Toronto 2022 FRP


That is a horrible return for the Pacers.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#7 » by pacers33granger » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:51 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:But if we can get a true foundational rookie contract in moving Turner (Vassell, Pat Williams, Mitchell, Kuminga, whomever), we gotta take it.


Agreed. Of the most realistic guys I'd say Mitchell is the one we should be shooting for. He could be a good partner for Brogdon and would help Domas a ton with his perimeter defense. I don't consider Kuminga realistic at this point though and would hope to extract some extra value with Mitchell.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#8 » by Scoot McGroot » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:57 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:But if we can get a true foundational rookie contract in moving Turner (Vassell, Pat Williams, Mitchell, Kuminga, whomever), we gotta take it.


Agreed. Of the most realistic guys I'd say Mitchell is the one we should be shooting for. He could be a good partner for Brogdon and would help Domas a ton with his perimeter defense. I don't consider Kuminga realistic at this point though and would hope to extract some extra value with Mitchell.



Yeah, I was speaking big picture, but I do think that while Mitchell obviously has to grow offensively in the nba, he’s already a contributor defensively.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#9 » by Tom White » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:23 pm

pacers33granger wrote: He could be a good partner for Brogdon


I look forward to the day Brogdon is gone, and we don't have to worry about another player fitting with him. My fear is the Pacers not thinking the same way.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#10 » by Topofthekey » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:25 pm

I look forward to the day Brogdon is gone, and we don't have to worry about another player fitting with him. My fear is the Pacers not thinking the same way.

Sometimes I And1 my fellow Pacers posters simply because I appreciate their input, and not necessarily because I agree with what they said

This is not one of those times

I cannot wait for the day Brogdon gets traded for decent returns
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#11 » by 8305 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:18 am

Topofthekey wrote:This is selling quite low on Turner

The pick looks like late first round. Vassell doesn't feel like someone with star potential. I see him more as a role player. I don't think he's going to be more than a 3rd or 4th option type on offense, and I'd consider ourselves lucky if he turns out to be 70-80% the player Turner is on defense

Like Wacko said, if I'm trading Turner to Spurs, I'd want Murray in return

It's unlikely they'd move Murray, I know. But we can't sell low on our players just because the other team doesn't want to part with their best assets

Turner is top 10, top 5 even, at his position, and he's one of the best at doing what he does. He leads the league in blocks, and no one in the top 15 for blocks per game shoots the 3P as well as him, out side of Bamba and Embiid. Turners' 3P% isn't great when you compare it to the league's guards and forwards, but it's absolutely elite when you do an apple to apple comparison and compare it to big men

We have to recognize Turner's value, and approach any trades for him that way. I die a little bit inside every time I see people proposing trading Turner for a bunch of role players

To clarify, I'm not holding out for a star. I'm just not settling for role players. Someone like Dejounte Murray is the right kind of return I'd want for Turner

I agree this selling low on Turner. Or, lower than I would have hoped. But, one way or another he needs to be moved before the deadline IMO. Wait past the deadline and he becomes an expiring contract. At that point his value sinks even lower while Jackson and Goga continue to languish on the bench. In the remaining games of a season going nowhere it would be a remarkable waste if those two don’t get significant run.

When I look around the league Turner squeaks into a top 10. No way is he a top 5. Many teams simply don’t value the position and his contract circumstances depreciate his value. Truth be told he should have been traded a couple years ago. That’s when his value peaked.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#12 » by Topofthekey » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:52 am

8305 wrote:I agree this selling low on Turner. Or, lower than I would have hoped. But, one way or another he needs to be moved before the deadline IMO. Wait past the deadline and he becomes an expiring contract. At that point his value sinks even lower while Jackson and Goga continue to languish on the bench. In the remaining games of a season going nowhere it would be a remarkable waste if those two don’t get significant run.

When I look around the league Turner squeaks into a top 10. No way is he a top 5. Many teams simply don’t value the position and his contract circumstances depreciate his value. Truth be told he should have been traded a couple years ago. That’s when his value peaked.

He's a lock to be in the top 10. I don't think one can name 10 centers who are clearly better than him

Whether he squeaks into the top 5 or not depends on what one thinks of Gobert, Ayton, Adebayo, AD, and KAT

Gobert and Adebayo can't shoot. AD is always injured. KAT doesn't play defense. Ayton is about to be overpaid. Etc

It's strange to argue that teams don't value centers, yet we all know that Ayton is about to be maxed

Two of the top 4 MVP candidates currently are centers (Jokic and Embiid). Giannis is neither a wing nor a guard. Durant rounds out the top 4 and he's playing PF these days. There are literally no guards or wings near the top of the MVP race. Closest ones are Derozan and Curry, at number 5 and 6. Source: Kia MVP ladder on the NBA website

All this "centers have low value" talk is just negative self talk. A good player will have value, regardless of the position he plays. Not many people will take Tatum over Jokic despite the positions they play

People on the TB tend to say center is a position teams can get by with a role player

Well, Warriors is getting by with Wiggins at SF. Suns, Mikal Bridges. Jazz, Royce O'Neal. Nuggets, Will Barton. Grizzlies, I don't even know who

Sounds like a lot of good teams are getting by with a good role player at SF

As for trading Turner, I do agree that the ideal outcome is to trade him before he becomes expiring. But the return has to be worthwhile. And they can always try extending him this off-season (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong)

I also do agree that trading Turner will potentially open up minutes for Goga and Jackson, but I think their lack of playing time has got more to do with Carlisle's approach, which seems to favour guards
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#13 » by Pacers Forever » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:42 am

Topofthekey wrote:
I look forward to the day Brogdon is gone, and we don't have to worry about another player fitting with him. My fear is the Pacers not thinking the same way.

Sometimes I And1 my fellow Pacers posters simply because I appreciate their input, and not necessarily because I agree with what they said

This is not one of those times

I cannot wait for the day Brogdon gets traded for decent returns


Yes indeed !
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#14 » by Vorda » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:53 am

No, better option is trade Turner for Anouby
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#15 » by Pacers Forever » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:38 am

Vorda wrote:No, better option is trade Turner for Anouby


I don’t see Spurs letting go of Murray in first scenario.
I like Anunoby. Problem is Raptors like Anunoby and want to build around him, Barnes, and VanVleet plus move on from the clumsy looking center Boucher. I don’t want any part of Boucher or any centers back in trades.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#16 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:31 pm

Vorda wrote:No, better option is trade Turner for Anouby


It definitely would be for the Pacers. I don’t see Toronto doing that, though.
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#17 » by 8305 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:41 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
8305 wrote:I agree this selling low on Turner. Or, lower than I would have hoped. But, one way or another he needs to be moved before the deadline IMO. Wait past the deadline and he becomes an expiring contract. At that point his value sinks even lower while Jackson and Goga continue to languish on the bench. In the remaining games of a season going nowhere it would be a remarkable waste if those two don’t get significant run.

When I look around the league Turner squeaks into a top 10. No way is he a top 5. Many teams simply don’t value the position and his contract circumstances depreciate his value. Truth be told he should have been traded a couple years ago. That’s when his value peaked.

He's a lock to be in the top 10. I don't think one can name 10 centers who are clearly better than him

Whether he squeaks into the top 5 or not depends on what one thinks of Gobert, Ayton, Adebayo, AD, and KAT

Gobert and Adebayo can't shoot. AD is always injured. KAT doesn't play defense. Ayton is about to be overpaid. Etc

It's strange to argue that teams don't value centers, yet we all know that Ayton is about to be maxed

Two of the top 4 MVP candidates currently are centers (Jokic and Embiid). Giannis is neither a wing nor a guard. Durant rounds out the top 4 and he's playing PF these days. There are literally no guards or wings near the top of the MVP race. Closest ones are Derozan and Curry, at number 5 and 6. Source: Kia MVP ladder on the NBA website

All this "centers have low value" talk is just negative self talk. A good player will have value, regardless of the position he plays. Not many people will take Tatum over Jokic despite the positions they play

People on the TB tend to say center is a position teams can get by with a role player

Well, Warriors is getting by with Wiggins at SF. Suns, Mikal Bridges. Jazz, Royce O'Neal. Nuggets, Will Barton. Grizzlies, I don't even know who

Sounds like a lot of good teams are getting by with a good role player at SF

As for trading Turner, I do agree that the ideal outcome is to trade him before he becomes expiring. But the return has to be worthwhile. And they can always try extending him this off-season (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong)

I also do agree that trading Turner will potentially open up minutes for Goga and Jackson, but I think their lack of playing time has got more to do with Carlisle's approach, which seems to favour guards

Call me crazy but I think Gobert, Ayton, Adabayou, AD and KAT are all more impactful players than Myles. I think it is possible that Myles is under utilized and that could impact my opinion of player overall value. How long are we going to take to figure that out?
Worthwhile value is a relative term. Guessing we have differing opinions as to a worthwhile return. For me a young player who potentially fits is worthwhile. Davion Mitchell, one of the Spurs wings still on a rookie contract, Patrick Williams I’d be down for in a Turner trade.
Would you re-sign with a bad team that you didn’t think was allowing you to be your best self?
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Re: Pacers, Spurs, Raptors 

Post#18 » by Pacers Forever » Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:21 am

8305 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:
8305 wrote:I agree this selling low on Turner. Or, lower than I would have hoped. But, one way or another he needs to be moved before the deadline IMO. Wait past the deadline and he becomes an expiring contract. At that point his value sinks even lower while Jackson and Goga continue to languish on the bench. In the remaining games of a season going nowhere it would be a remarkable waste if those two don’t get significant run.

When I look around the league Turner squeaks into a top 10. No way is he a top 5. Many teams simply don’t value the position and his contract circumstances depreciate his value. Truth be told he should have been traded a couple years ago. That’s when his value peaked.

He's a lock to be in the top 10. I don't think one can name 10 centers who are clearly better than him

Whether he squeaks into the top 5 or not depends on what one thinks of Gobert, Ayton, Adebayo, AD, and KAT

Gobert and Adebayo can't shoot. AD is always injured. KAT doesn't play defense. Ayton is about to be overpaid. Etc

It's strange to argue that teams don't value centers, yet we all know that Ayton is about to be maxed

Two of the top 4 MVP candidates currently are centers (Jokic and Embiid). Giannis is neither a wing nor a guard. Durant rounds out the top 4 and he's playing PF these days. There are literally no guards or wings near the top of the MVP race. Closest ones are Derozan and Curry, at number 5 and 6. Source: Kia MVP ladder on the NBA website

All this "centers have low value" talk is just negative self talk. A good player will have value, regardless of the position he plays. Not many people will take Tatum over Jokic despite the positions they play

People on the TB tend to say center is a position teams can get by with a role player

Well, Warriors is getting by with Wiggins at SF. Suns, Mikal Bridges. Jazz, Royce O'Neal. Nuggets, Will Barton. Grizzlies, I don't even know who

Sounds like a lot of good teams are getting by with a good role player at SF

As for trading Turner, I do agree that the ideal outcome is to trade him before he becomes expiring. But the return has to be worthwhile. And they can always try extending him this off-season (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong)

I also do agree that trading Turner will potentially open up minutes for Goga and Jackson, but I think their lack of playing time has got more to do with Carlisle's approach, which seems to favour guards

Call me crazy but I think Gobert, Ayton, Adabayou, AD and KAT are all more impactful players than Myles. I think it is possible that Myles is under utilized and that could impact my opinion of player overall value. How long are we going to take to figure that out?
Worthwhile value is a relative term. Guessing we have differing opinions as to a worthwhile return. For me a young player who potentially fits is worthwhile. Davion Mitchell, one of the Spurs wings still on a rookie contract, Patrick Williams I’d be down for in a Turner trade.
Would you re-sign with a bad team that you didn’t think was allowing you to be your best self?


I think you’re right on and I’ll add
Jokic
Embiid
Vucevic

who I think are all better than Myles.

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