No Jaden Ivey

[Hamburger]

I'm a Purdue guy, and I loved Edey and Ivey, but Ivey would be a huge mistake at #6. The problem is his defense. For an athletic guy, he does not make an impact on that end of the court. If Haliburton is the point, who guards opposing PG. Duarte can't do it either. Ivey's best trait is his shooting. He is not a playmaker, and he can take it to the paint, but he doesn't go to the basket as well as Brogdon or McConnell. You don't won't him to pound the ball at the end of games. I see Ivey as a starting quality shooting guard, who doesn't help much on defense. I wouldn't take Griffin for the exact same reason. You need someone who can play defense next to Haliburton. If Mathurin or Agbaji can guard the point, I'd take them as fast as I could. Murry doesn't make much sense either. For a top ten pick, I'm wanting a two way player so we don't continue to lose 140 to 130.

[Tom White]

There are all sorts of things about Ivey I don't like. I do like Murray though.

[Wizop]

There are all sorts of things about Ivey I don't like. I do like Murray though.

If Ivey is there at 6, Murray probably went higher perhaps to the Kings. One thing Ivey does have is speed. A lineup of Hali, Ivey, Duarte, Jackson, and Turner could run and run. I don't think he falls to 6, but if he does I think you take him.

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[8305]

There are all sorts of things about Ivey I don't like. I do like Murray though.

If Ivey is there at 6, Murray probably went higher perhaps to the Kings. One thing Ivey does have is speed. A lineup of Hali, Ivey, Duarte, Jackson, and Turner could run and run. I don't think he falls to 6, but if he does I think you take him.

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I like Ivey. My board for Pacers is Smith,Ivey, Banchero, Holmgren in that order. I wouldn’t just take him 6, I’d trade up to 4 to get him. He is the clear best athlete in this draft. I agree he isn’t a PG but, we wouldn’t need him to be one. Playing off a guy like Hali I think he could be lethal. I also agree he didn’t show much as a defender at Purdue but, I think it’s a reasonable gamble that an athlete on his level could be a very good defender.

[Wizop]

I wouldn’t just take him 6, I’d trade up to 4 to get him.

The only price I'd play to move up is Brogdon.

[Hamburger]

Wizop and 8305, I know Ivey is an incredible athlete, but isn't he just a shooting guard with little experience coming off screens who isn't interested in defense? Why is he top 10?

[Hamburger]

There are all sorts of things about Ivey I don't like. I do like Murray though.

What does Murray offer besides scoring? He doesn't have length and he isn't real athletic. That is a tough pill for me swallow considering how bad our defense is. Brisset can score too.

[Wizop]

Wizop and 8305, I know Ivey is an incredible athlete, but isn't he just a shooting guard with little experience coming off screens who isn't interested in defense? Why is he top 10?

Not arguing, but if first five to go are Smith, Holmgren, Banchero, Sharpe, and Murray, who do you have over Ivey?

[Tom White]

What does Murray offer besides scoring? He doesn't have length and he isn't real athletic. That is a tough pill for me swallow considering how bad our defense is. Brisset can score too.

Murray not only offers scoring, but effectiveness in his shooting. Let's compare the two.

Murray shoots 55.4% overall, and 39.8% from three. At 6'8" he gets 8.7 rebounds per game.
Ivey shoots 46% overall, and 35.8% from three. At 6'4" he gets 4.9 rebounds per game.

So, Murray is actually a much better shooter than the supposed shooting guard Ivey. I say "supposed" because those aren't good shooting numbers overall. He can play his team out of a game as easy as he can keep them in it.

Although Ivey is flashy, Murray is also a much better defender than Ivey. Plain and simple on that point.

So, better shooting, better rebounding and better defense.

Another thing I don't like about Ivey is he can be a ball-stopper while trying to get his own shot. That makes his team less effective and his teammates less involved. We've seen similar out of players like Brogdon. Don't care to keep seeing it.

[Hamburger]

Wizop and 8305, I know Ivey is an incredible athlete, but isn't he just a shooting guard with little experience coming off screens who isn't interested in defense? Why is he top 10?

Not arguing, but if first five to go are Smith, Holmgren, Banchero, Sharpe, and Murray, who do you have over Ivey?

I'm looking at Agbaji. Shooter, plays D, and moves without the ball. I'd grab him immediately if he can guard point guards. He fell because he doesn't create his own shot, but he could be perfect with Haliburton. Same deal with Mathurin. He is my second choice right now. If he can guard point guards, it would be perfect. My third guy is Dyson Daniels. I think he could be more than a defensive specialist, but could he learn to be an off the ball guard, would he want to even try it?

[Wizop]

I'm looking at Agbaji. Shooter, plays D, and moves without the ball. I'd grab him immediately if he can guard point guards. He fell because he doesn't create his ow shot, but he could be perfect with Haliburton.

He hasn't fallen yet, but he is projected lower. Most teams like younger players. If you see him as the BPA after the top 3, you should trade down for more picks.

[Hamburger]

What does Murray offer besides scoring? He doesn't have length and he isn't real athletic. That is a tough pill for me swallow considering how bad our defense is. Brisset can score too.

Murray not only offers scoring, but effectiveness in his shooting. Let's compare the two.

Murray shoots 55.4% overall, and 39.8% from three. At 6'8" he gets 8.7 rebounds per game.
Ivey shoots 46% overall, and 35.8% from three. At 6'4" he gets 4.9 rebounds per game.

So, Murray is actually a much better shooter than the supposed shooting guard Ivey. I say "supposed" because those aren't good shooting numbers overall. He can play his team out of a game as easy as he can keep them in it.

Although Ivey is flashy, Murray is also a much better defender than Ivey. Plain and simple on that point.

So, better shooting, better rebounding and better defense.

Another thing I don't like about Ivey is he can be a ball-stopper while trying to get his own shot. That makes his team less effective and his teammates less involved. We've seen similar out of players like Brogdon. Don't care to keep seeing it.

How does Murray compare to Brissett? Wouldn't they be similar? Scoring 4 with not much else?

[Scoot McGroot]

What does Murray offer besides scoring? He doesn't have length and he isn't real athletic. That is a tough pill for me swallow considering how bad our defense is. Brisset can score too.

Murray not only offers scoring, but effectiveness in his shooting. Let's compare the two.

Murray shoots 55.4% overall, and 39.8% from three. At 6'8" he gets 8.7 rebounds per game.
Ivey shoots 46% overall, and 35.8% from three. At 6'4" he gets 4.9 rebounds per game.

So, Murray is actually a much better shooter than the supposed shooting guard Ivey. I say "supposed" because those aren't good shooting numbers overall. He can play his team out of a game as easy as he can keep them in it.

Although Ivey is flashy, Murray is also a much better defender than Ivey. Plain and simple on that point.

So, better shooting, better rebounding and better defense.

Another thing I don't like about Ivey is he can be a ball-stopper while trying to get his own shot. That makes his team less effective and his teammates less involved. We've seen similar out of players like Brogdon. Don't care to keep seeing it.

How does Murray compare to Brissett? Wouldn't they be similar? Scoring 4 with not much else?

That’s Brissett? Oshae Brissett? Doesn’t sound like him. He’s more of a connective tissue 3/4 that screens well, puts himself in the right spots, and plays as a plus defender with motion on offense and an occasional shot. He doesn’t create offense or distribute offense, but he helps reset the offense and flow from motion to motion. He’s kind of the inverse of Keegan Murray, where Murray lacks defensively but is good, not great, at most things offensively, except slashing.

[8305]

I wouldn’t just take him 6, I’d trade up to 4 to get him.

The only price I'd play to move up is Brogdon.

Wouldn’t think twice about moving Brogdan to move up. I’m not sure that gets it done. I get we may not agree that he is a true difference maker. But, if he is the only guy on the Pacers that should be off the table is Halliburton.

[8305]

Wizop and 8305, I know Ivey is an incredible athlete, but isn't he just a shooting guard with little experience coming off screens who isn't interested in defense? Why is he top 10?

He’s still a young guy. I’ll risk that he can learn to come off screens and defend at a higher level. What can’t be taught is that first step and his speed.

[Topofthekey]

I think it helps that Ivey wants to be in Indiana

[Scoot McGroot]

Wizop and 8305, I know Ivey is an incredible athlete, but isn't he just a shooting guard with little experience coming off screens who isn't interested in defense? Why is he top 10?

He’s still a young guy. I’ll risk that he can learn to come off screens and defend at a higher level. What can’t be taught is that first step and his speed.

Yeah. Some of it is remembering that these guys aren't complete at all. Sometimes they're asked to play a certain system in college, and sometimes they're asked to focus solely on one end of the court. When looking at a guy like Ivey, it's not just "What have you shown me in college?", but also "What can you do that you haven't been asked to do in college?".

Ivey's got foot speed. He's shown when he's super locked in that he can be a usable to plus defender. Can you get him to buy in and lock in every night in the NBA?

But yeah, the natural talents are undeniable. He's got a dynamite first step. He's got a solid long-range shot (including SUPER deep). He gets to the rim at an elite level. He doesn't do much in between, though, so that's a question, for sure. But that type of first step is impossible to teach/develop.

[Tom White]

Here is a page with more info about both players, and how they rank compared to their Big Ten brethren. Some interesting stuff.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-ten/2022-leaders.html

Just a reminder, this is ONLY Big Ten players. For all players in all conferences, see this page.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2022-leaders.html

Spoiler alert: Murray leads a number of their categories as well.

[Wizop]

He's got a solid long-range shot (including SUPER deep). He gets to the rim at an elite level. He doesn't do much in between, though, so that's a question, for sure. But that type of first step is impossible to teach/develop.

a workout will show whether the lack of a midrange game is simply how Purdue told him to play or not.

[Scoot McGroot]

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Fischer mentions that Indy is viewed as the floor for Ivey. The belief is that if he falls to 6, Indy would snap him up.