Isaiah Jackson not a Center

[Hamburger]

We better not trade Myles, because it seems obvious that Jackson is too light and thin to play center. It seems any opposing center can body him pretty easily for a basket. I'm not sure if he can bulk up or if he should backup Stick at the 4. He moves well and seems like he can develop a nice jumper. If Myles doesn't look like he has any lingering health issues, I'd give him an extension right away. Otherwise, Goga would be the only center on the team.

[xBulletproof]

We better not trade Myles, because it seems obvious that Jackson is too light and thin to play center. It seems any opposing center can body him pretty easily for a basket. I'm not sure if he can bulk up or if he should backup Stick at the 4. He moves well and seems like he can develop a nice jumper. If Myles doesn't look like he has any lingering health issues, I'd give him an extension right away. Otherwise, Goga would be the only center on the team.

Agreed on Jackson, but I think Jalen Smith is capable of playing center. Also I'm not worried about the record this year. These are concerns I have when I care about the record. This is a development year. Get all the young guys all the playing time you can, and see who they are. Hope Hali takes the next step. Get extra minutes for Nembhard, Mathurin, Jackson, Duarte, Nesmith, and Jalen Smith. Maybe even Goga if he's on the roster. That's my priority.

I'd even move Myles and Buddy for young guys/picks/cap space if you can.

[Hamburger]

We better not trade Myles, because it seems obvious that Jackson is too light and thin to play center. It seems any opposing center can body him pretty easily for a basket. I'm not sure if he can bulk up or if he should backup Stick at the 4. He moves well and seems like he can develop a nice jumper. If Myles doesn't look like he has any lingering health issues, I'd give him an extension right away. Otherwise, Goga would be the only center on the team.

Agreed on Jackson, but I think Jalen Smith is capable of playing center. Also I'm not worried about the record this year. These are concerns I have when I care about the record. This is a development year. Get all the young guys all the playing time you can, and see who they are. Hope Hali takes the next step. Get extra minutes for Nembhard, Mathurin, Jackson, Duarte, Nesmith, and Jalen Smith. Maybe even Goga if he's on the roster. That's my priority.

I'd even move Myles and Buddy for young guys/picks/cap space if you can.

Do you really think we should tank? Hali, Duarte, Mathurin, with Turner and Smith could be a playoff team. Turner looked great in Carlyle's system and Smith was shooting lights out. McConnell and Buddy off the bench are pretty solid too. My only question is how we guard quick guards. We could use our multiple picks next year to move up and become scary. I wouldn't tank.

[xBulletproof]

Do you really think we should tank? Hali, Duarte, Mathurin, with Turner and Smith could be a playoff team. Turner looked great in Carlyle's system and Smith was shooting lights out. McConnell and Buddy off the bench are pretty solid too. My only question is how we guard quick guards. We could use our multiple picks next year to move up and become scary. I wouldn't tank.

I absolutely would. You need multiple stars to actually contend in this NBA. Hali could be 1, I even think he will be, but where is the 2nd one going to come from while making the playoffs and paying Turner 25m a year? No cap, no high picks. The ceiling is just that, playoffs. To do otherwise a star needs to just fall in your lap. Which we aren't the Lakers, that would just be a miracle. Best case is playoffs, barring a miracle. Not what I'm looking for.

Another issue is Turner could easily walk. Dude can't be happy. He's complained about his role, and now you tried to spend 130m to replace him. Does he even want to be here? If you don't do it now, you'll be treading water and wishing you did it in 2025, except by then Mathurin is up for extension, if you keep him Turner is at 30m a year at the end of his deal and Haliburton is getting paid max too. It's harder to do at that point.

It's now or never .... and never win a title.

[Scoot McGroot]

We better not trade Myles, because it seems obvious that Jackson is too light and thin to play center. It seems any opposing center can body him pretty easily for a basket. I'm not sure if he can bulk up or if he should backup Stick at the 4. He moves well and seems like he can develop a nice jumper. If Myles doesn't look like he has any lingering health issues, I'd give him an extension right away. Otherwise, Goga would be the only center on the team.

Agreed on Jackson, but I think Jalen Smith is capable of playing center. Also I'm not worried about the record this year. These are concerns I have when I care about the record. This is a development year. Get all the young guys all the playing time you can, and see who they are. Hope Hali takes the next step. Get extra minutes for Nembhard, Mathurin, Jackson, Duarte, Nesmith, and Jalen Smith. Maybe even Goga if he's on the roster. That's my priority.

I'd even move Myles and Buddy for young guys/picks/cap space if you can.

Do you really think we should tank? Hali, Duarte, Mathurin, with Turner and Smith could be a playoff team. Turner looked great in Carlyle's system and Smith was shooting lights out. McConnell and Buddy off the bench are pretty solid too. My only question is how we guard quick guards. We could use our multiple picks next year to move up and become scary. I wouldn't tank.

Oh, I don’t think that lineup is a playoff team. I think it’s a team that MIGHT be the last team in the play-in if everyone is healthy and everyone hits, but the lack of real 3/4 guys (just Oshae, Taylor, and Brown, potentially?) will probably kill us all season long. I don’t think we tank next year. I just don’t think we win a lot of games. Last I saw, Vegas had the money line on Pacers wins around 25 for next year.


Otherwise, I think Jalen Smith’s size, mobility, and defensive presence leads to him being a center in reality. Jackson is a guy that can guard 4’s (even some 3’s), but his offensive game leads him to being a 5 long term, and his springiness is more of an advantage at the 5 long term. I think we still have 6 centers, but 3-4 of them can maybe play some PF too. I have Jackson, Taylor, and maybe Jalen and Theis being able to play some 4, and Myles/Goga being pure 5’s.

[Grang33r]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

[Hamburger]

I'm surprised I'm the only optimistic one. We would have a good mix of athleticism and shooting, with Hali running the show and Turner anchoring the defense. It would be the most athletic team we have had in years. After getting Mathurin and Duarte in the last two years, and picking up Haliburton, I just don't see why we need to go right back to the lottery.

[xBulletproof]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

[Pacers Forever]

Agreed on Jackson, but I think Jalen Smith is capable of playing center. Also I'm not worried about the record this year. These are concerns I have when I care about the record. This is a development year. Get all the young guys all the playing time you can, and see who they are. Hope Hali takes the next step. Get extra minutes for Nembhard, Mathurin, Jackson, Duarte, Nesmith, and Jalen Smith. Maybe even Goga if he's on the roster. That's my priority.

I'd even move Myles and Buddy for young guys/picks/cap space if you can.

Do you really think we should tank? Hali, Duarte, Mathurin, with Turner and Smith could be a playoff team. Turner looked great in Carlyle's system and Smith was shooting lights out. McConnell and Buddy off the bench are pretty solid too. My only question is how we guard quick guards. We could use our multiple picks next year to move up and become scary. I wouldn't tank.

Oh, I don’t think that lineup is a playoff team. I think it’s a team that MIGHT be the last team in the play-in if everyone is healthy and everyone hits, but the lack of real 3/4 guys (just Oshae, Taylor, and Brown, potentially?) will probably kill us all season long. I don’t think we tank next year. I just don’t think we win a lot of games. Last I saw, Vegas had the money line on Pacers wins around 25 for next year.


Otherwise, I think Jalen Smith’s size, mobility, and defensive presence leads to him being a center in reality. Jackson is a guy that can guard 4’s (even some 3’s), but his offensive game leads him to being a 5 long term, and his springiness is more of an advantage at the 5 long term. I think we still have 6 centers, but 3-4 of them can maybe play some PF too. I have Jackson, Taylor, and maybe Jalen and Theis being able to play some 4, and Myles/Goga being pure 5’s.

I’m in agreement with Scoot as I outlined in a post that we’re a young talented team this upcoming season and showed all the teams that will finish ahead of us.

Reason being is we still don’t have enough developed veteran talent. In a couple years our youth today will be veterans who can then propel us into playoff contention.

I just hope some day we get a secondary owner who between the 2 could justify spending over the cap to compete with the top teams who yearly spend to have the top talent to win championships.

Or better yet the league revises the parameters that make a more even playing field for all size markets.

[Hamburger]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

We are not as bad as the last half of the season. We didn't just add Mathurin. Turner will make a huge difference. We did not have Sabonis or Turner at the end. Plus we get McConnell back full strength as well. We have shooters, an undisputed offensive leader and a defensive anchor. I don't see suck. I see this as an opportunity to see the full potential of an athletic team after the twin big experiment. We ditch the twin big model and added a top ten pick.

[xBulletproof]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

We are not as bad as the last half of the season. We didn't just add Mathurin. Turner will make a huge difference. We did not have Sabonis or Turner at the end. Plus we get McConnell back full strength as well. We have shooters, an undisputed offensive leader and a defensive anchor. I don't see suck. I see this as an opportunity to see the full potential of an athletic team after the twin big experiment. We ditch the twin big model and added a top ten pick.

You're basically agreeing with me, that we aren't as bad as he thinks. I don't think we are currently bottom 6 in the NBA, healthy. I also don't think we are any kind of a threat in the playoffs. We would at best be a 7-10 seed, either in the play in or getting knocked out in 1 easy series. Realistically I think we would be a 35ish win team picking 10-13 in the draft. This is the 1 time in my life that I think our current setup dictates bottoming out. Salaries, player ages and timelines support it. If you try this in 4 or 5 years and Haliburton is 26-27, I don't think he's going to be with it. But right now we have a 22 year old future star who you can bottom out while he figures out how to balance being an alpha scorer and distributor.

I personally am not interested much in being 'in the playoffs' at 7-10 seed. That's not what I'm looking for. I want to at least be a threat to the top teams and in the conversation for contenders with young players. That's how you grow into a championship team.

I knew 3 years ago at least one of Sabonis or Brogdon had to go. You can't have your 2 best players both unathletic guys who struggle with length or athleticism. The best teams are athletic and/or long. We were never going to be a threat to them. I was begging for that change years ago and people kept telling me we were a 4 seed and close to being a contender. But we got swept by the Heat like we were nothing. I saw no path to greatness then with those 2 as your best players, but I see one now. Tanking at this time for 1 or 2 years has a chance for greatness. Not tanking at this time as I see it tops out in a best case scenario as mediocrity .... which just doesn't excite me. I actually had more fun watching this years team than the last 2 seasons, because it didn't feel like a dead end before it even started after the Sabonis trade.

[Scoot McGroot]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

We were 14-22 in the 36 games Brogdon played last year, and 11-35 in the 46 games he didn't play. Losing him is a large impact, whether we like it or not. Sure, Myles should be back, we've added Mathurin, and everyone else will be one year more toward their prime. Hali is the key. Maybe he could will us to a surprising amount of wins, but Sabonis was pretty good last year for us, too, so there's a bit of a mitigated impact of Hali in that we dealt Sabonis for him.

I just don't see use winning a ton of games. I also don't see us laying it all on the line and sitting the young guys to eek out a few extra games by playing Theis/Turner lineups, or playing McConnell/Buddy lineups over Hali/Mathurin/Duarte. I don't see it as a tank, but a focus on rebuilding and developing for another season.

[Scoot McGroot]

Don't get me wrong though:

I LOVE the optimism. That's what fandom is all about!

I do think this team will be a LOT more fun to watch this year than last, though. I think we just have a ton of growing pains to get through, having added 4 guys in the first (or 1st pick of the 2nd round) in the last two drafts, and 10 guys total on the active roster (11 if Brown surprisingly gets a full spot instead of a 2 way) that are in their "rookie contract years" (or first 3-4 years in the league).

[xBulletproof]

The Pacers don't have to tank, they are easily a bottom 6 team in the NBA when healthy. And if they trade Hield that will only make them worse. What the Pacers will really need, is lottery luck, but they'll need that even if they finish dead last.

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

We were 14-22 in the 36 games Brogdon played last year, and 11-35 in the 46 games he didn't play. Losing him is a large impact, whether we like it or not. Sure, Myles should be back, we've added Mathurin, and everyone else will be one year more toward their prime. Hali is the key. Maybe he could will us to a surprising amount of wins, but Sabonis was pretty good last year for us, too, so there's a bit of a mitigated impact of Hali in that we dealt Sabonis for him.

I just don't see use winning a ton of games. I also don't see us laying it all on the line and sitting the young guys to eek out a few extra games by playing Theis/Turner lineups, or playing McConnell/Buddy lineups over Hali/Mathurin/Duarte. I don't see it as a tank, but a focus on rebuilding and developing for another season.

You're pinning all that on Brogdon, ignoring that largely those are the same games Turner missed and the time when Duarte got hurt. Isaiah Jackson started 15 games, and Goga started 16. That's a pretty steep drop off from Turner. Heck we started Kiefer Sykes 11 games. Craig 14 games. Brissett 25. Undrafted rookies like Terry Taylor/Washington Jr playing 20 MPG in the rotation. We legit had a half a G League team out there the 2nd half of the season. It's not hard to improve on that, and that team went 10-31 to end the season.

You replace all those guys who shouldn't have meaningful NBA minutes with guys who should, you're invariably going to win more games. So instead of 10-31, we're on pace for what? 15-26? That puts at us at a 30 win pace. Or around 10th in the draft, which is about what I expect. From the 2nd half you're swapping out McConnell for Sykes. Duarte for Kelan Martin. Turner/Theis for a platoon of guys who aren't proven. Mathurin for Washington Jr ..... I'm sure there's more replacements I could say but I think it's clear there is much more talent on this team going into camp than there was on the court the 2nd half of last year. It was way more than just Brogdon not playing.

[Scoot McGroot]

We were BARELY bottom 6 and we were anything but healthy last year. We had 2 or 3 G League guys starting every game at the end of last year, and we were only a couple wins from being outside the bottom 6.

If Haliburton takes any step forward which I expect him to listening to what he's focusing on and Myles is healthy to anchor the defense I think there's a good chance we finish with 32-35 wins. No where near the top of the draft.

We were 14-22 in the 36 games Brogdon played last year, and 11-35 in the 46 games he didn't play. Losing him is a large impact, whether we like it or not. Sure, Myles should be back, we've added Mathurin, and everyone else will be one year more toward their prime. Hali is the key. Maybe he could will us to a surprising amount of wins, but Sabonis was pretty good last year for us, too, so there's a bit of a mitigated impact of Hali in that we dealt Sabonis for him.

I just don't see use winning a ton of games. I also don't see us laying it all on the line and sitting the young guys to eek out a few extra games by playing Theis/Turner lineups, or playing McConnell/Buddy lineups over Hali/Mathurin/Duarte. I don't see it as a tank, but a focus on rebuilding and developing for another season.

You're pinning all that on Brogdon, ignoring that largely those are the same games Turner missed and the time when Duarte got hurt. Isaiah Jackson started 15 games, and Goga started 16. That's a pretty steep drop off from Turner. Heck we started Kiefer Sykes 11 games. Craig 14 games. Brissett 25. Undrafted rookies like Terry Taylor/Washington Jr playing 20 MPG in the rotation. We legit had a half a G League team out there the 2nd half of the season. It's not hard to improve on that, and that team went 10-31 to end the season.

You replace all those guys who shouldn't have meaningful NBA minutes with guys who should, you're invariably going to win more games. So instead of 10-31, we're on pace for what? 15-26? That puts at us at a 30 win pace. Or around 10th in the draft, which is about what I expect. From the 2nd half you're swapping out McConnell for Sykes. Duarte for Kelan Martin. Turner/Theis for a platoon of guys who aren't proven. Mathurin for Washington Jr ..... I'm sure there's more replacements I could say but I think it's clear there is much more talent on this team going into camp than there was on the court the 2nd half of last year. It was way more than just Brogdon not playing.

I pointed out that Vegas thought this was a 25ish win team. You're adamant this is a 30 win team. That's....not far off? And neither is anywhere near the playoffs.

[xBulletproof]

I pointed out that Vegas thought this was a 25ish win team. You're adamant this is a 30 win team. That's....not far off? And neither is anywhere near the playoffs.

Well there's a big difference in draft placement. Which was the discussion originally being had. Over whether there was a need to 'tank' by trading Hield and Turner to ensure max draft placement. We just won 25 games, with that G League team and we had the 5th worst record. I don't think expecting several more wins with a better rotation is crazy, and once you break that low 30w threshold you're looking at 8-12 or so.

I know after a few posts people tend to get off track and stop thinking about the original point, but everything I said was based on that. 5-8 wins difference is HUGE for the point of the discussion.

[Scoot McGroot]

I pointed out that Vegas thought this was a 25ish win team. You're adamant this is a 30 win team. That's....not far off? And neither is anywhere near the playoffs.

Well there's a big difference in draft placement. Which was the discussion originally being had. Over whether there was a need to 'tank' by trading Hield and Turner to ensure max draft placement. We just won 25 games, with that G League team and we had the 5th worst record. I don't think expecting several more wins with a better rotation is crazy, and once you break that low 30w threshold you're looking at 8-12 or so.

I know after a few posts people tend to get off track and stop thinking about the original point, but everything I said was based on that. 5-8 wins difference is HUGE for the point of the discussion.

Yeah. I think we’re closer to the 25? While I like Buddy, I don’t think Buddy impacts winning. I don’t think he loses games either, but keeping him won’t win us games. To me, when you have Mathurin and Duarte, I see no reason to hold onto Buddy IF someone will make it worth your while. Whether that’s picks, shorter contracts, better fitting player, saving money, etc.

As for Turner, I’m not saying we have to trade him and tank. I’m saying that if Turner won’t extend, we likely have to trade him before he hits a free agency where almost half the league would have roughly enough cap space to make him a good offer.

If this team sniffs the playoffs, it means that Hali had an All-NBA season and Mathurin likely is Rookie of the year and Myles extended and finally won DPOY. I just think the weaknesses at the 3/4, and having Oshae and Taylor as the only real forwards (and Taylor may really be more of a 5) on the roster will just hurt us too much all season long.

[pacers33granger]

In the East I'd say we're worse than everyone but Orlando and Detroit. And they could be better than us if they're prospects take a leap. Same for Houston out West.

Utah will probably be worse. Okc may be but has a lot of talent now. We very well could be a bottom 3 team.

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[Helsbyte]

I do think we should put ourselves in a position to be a top 3 lottery team. There is a so called generational talent at #1 next year and it would be foolish not to try. We may see a repeat of last yr in that we give our guys a run early in the season but go into full tank mode once it is apparent we are not making the playoffs.

I disagree on the need of getting younger. We need veterans to steer the ship and to keep our young players accountable. Now I am not saying Turner, McConnel, and Hield are those vets, just saying putting a team of only young players out there is a bad idea.
Now if I could find an upside SF like Hunter of Atlanta then yeah trade one of the vets and go look the FA list to find someone else.

[Hamburger]

In the East I'd say we're worse than everyone but Orlando and Detroit. And they could be better than us if they're prospects take a leap. Same for Houston out West.

Utah will probably be worse. Okc may be but has a lot of talent now. We very well could be a bottom 3 team.

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I think in the East there are only four teams way beyond us. Bucks, Celtics, Raptors, and possibly 76rs. Miami is Miami, but I think we would be in those games. Instead of third worst in the East, I see us able to fight for fifth best. In the West, we'd have no chance against the Warriors, Grizzlies, Pelicans and possibly the T-Wolves. We could be a top ten team next year. I'd hate to suck on purpose and end up with a lousy ping pong ball. Hell, the Knicks would probably pick first. lol We have too much talent to even sniff a top five pick anyway. I say win now. Like I said, we finally got away from the two big mess, plus we add Hali and Mathurin. I say kick A$$.