Mathurin only 13 minutes vs. Miami: bigger issue?

[Grang33r]

Mathurin's line from tonight's game vs. Miami:

13 minutes
2 points
0 rebounds
2 assists
0/2 FG
2/2 FT

Mathurin's defense to me is the main root of his dwindling playing time. The topic is spreading like wild fire on twitter about who is right, should Carlisle teach the rook tough love, let him sit and watch and learn from afar, or is this the season to learn and play and not worry about attention to minor details?

Read on Twitter

[jtan08]

And Hali took only 6 shots attempt.

[xBulletproof]

Mathurin just hasn't been that good a lot of the time. Defense is bad. Drives himself into trouble (more turnovers than assists) and shoots like 60% at the rim, where league average is 70%+. The only Pacers shooting worse at the rim that play at all are Oshae, and Duarte. He's shooting 32% from 3. The ONLY saving grace is the free throw rate. So, he's been bad on defense, and an inefficient offensive player at the rim driving himself into trouble, on top of not hitting 3's. I'm 100% sure this isn't popular opinion as a lot of Pacers fans I see rant like we are benching Michael Jordan but it is what's happening.

On the flip side I am rooting for a higher pick, so I'd be happy if we were playing him.

[Topofthekey]

Mathurin is pretty great. But he also has some glaring weaknesses that he needs to fix

Falls asleep on defense sometimes. Gets caught ball watching instead of boxing out. Doesn't create for his teammates. Relies too much on refs bailing him out. Etc

He's absolutely a huge pillar of this team's future, but that doesn't mean he should be getting a free pass

Carlisle is doing the right thing

[Grang33r]

Mathurin is pretty great. But he also has some glaring weaknesses that he needs to fix

Falls asleep on defense sometimes. Gets caught ball watching instead of boxing out. Doesn't create for his teammates. Relies too much on refs bailing him out. Etc

He's absolutely a huge pillar of this team's future, but that doesn't mean he should be getting a free pass

Carlisle is doing the right thing

Mathurin just hasn't been that good a lot of the time. Defense is bad. Drives himself into trouble (more turnovers than assists) and shoots like 60% at the rim, where league average is 70%+. The only Pacers shooting worse at the rim that play at all are Oshae, and Duarte. He's shooting 32% from 3. The ONLY saving grace is the free throw rate. So, he's been bad on defense, and an inefficient offensive player at the rim driving himself into trouble, on top of not hitting 3's. I'm 100% sure this isn't popular opinion as a lot of Pacers fans I see rant like we are benching Michael Jordan but it is what's happening.

On the flip side I am rooting for a higher pick, so I'd be happy if we were playing him.

I 100% agree with you both. The reason i brought this topic on here because i was wondering what you guys thought. On twitter it was the opposite. I don't usually take twitter takes too seriously, afterall, that **** was made as the ultimate shitposting machine, but wanted to see what this board was thinking.

I also think his defense has been loose and he's been making some mistakes lately. Carlisle trying to teach this kid the right ways and using this stretch as a teaching moment. I'm actually happy with how coach Carlisle has handled it, and was taken back on twitter with the consensus of people saying the opposite.

[boomershadow]

Mathurin started out really hot because there were a couple things he could do better than anyone thought he would do as a rookie. Getting to the rim. Making foul shots. But teams know that now. And he is still a rookie and still has a lot to figure out.

[Wizop]

He's 20. we've seen rookies who didn't develop because they weren't pushed early - see Tinsley who was made a starter in training camp. It's possible Benn bought into the hype too much and now teams have tape on him to study. he needs to study it too and I think he will.

[Solid]

His defense is terrible. His offense is predictable. His handle is not very good.
Sitting will make him think about his issues.
Great to see Hill back btw. Lots of experience to share with all our young guards. He could be our veteran voice to replace Johnson and at a position that can use it.

[Wizop]

Great to see Hill back btw. Lots of experience to share with all our young guards. He could be our veteran voice to replace Johnson and at a position that can use it.

I'm reading the hope to bring Johnson back into Ibaka's spot if he clears waivers. I'd rather bring Taylor back and give Johnson a seat behind the bench.

[Pacers Forever]

Great to see Hill back btw. Lots of experience to share with all our young guards. He could be our veteran voice to replace Johnson and at a position that can use it.

I'm reading the hope to bring Johnson back into Ibaka's spot if he clears waivers. I'd rather bring Taylor back and give Johnson a seat behind the bench.

Totally agree about Johnson. I would love to find another young talent who got cut preferably a forward. If nobody better becomes available then TT is a long range development piece like before that I like.

[basketballwacko2]

I think it may be a good idea to give Mathurin some light days and even a game to 2 off. He's played 56 games this season that's nearly 2X what he did last year at AZ.

[Pacers Forever]

I like Rick sending a message to the rookies. I’ve noticed he’s been a little less committed to Nembhard recently as well as Mathurin.

I think it’s good to teach the young players and ride them hard when needed.

We need to keep them grounded as much as possible since neither are superstar caliber.

Granted they’ve both had more success and opportunity than I think other rookies have gotten here.

However they both make a lot of mistakes which is part of their learning curve. It’s hurting the team at times where a veteran may make less mistakes.

Still these minutes will pay dividends next season. I just hope Rick starts getting I Jax and Smith more into the mix along with seeing what Nwora brings.

[Scoot McGroot]

Great to see Hill back btw. Lots of experience to share with all our young guards. He could be our veteran voice to replace Johnson and at a position that can use it.

I'm reading the hope to bring Johnson back into Ibaka's spot if he clears waivers. I'd rather bring Taylor back and give Johnson a seat behind the bench.

Totally agree about Johnson. I would love to find another young talent who got cut preferably a forward. If nobody better becomes available then TT is a long range development piece like before that I like.

My read is that Nwora took Taylor’s possible role.

[8305]

Ben getting minutes against the Suns and looking pretty good.

[Grang33r]

Ben getting minutes against the Suns and looking pretty good.

Yeah nice bounce back game for him. Even a good defensive game. -4 but played a team-high 33 minutes. And had a nice steal/def player late in the game. Looks like Carlisle's "tough love" tactic worked.

[8305]

Ben getting minutes against the Suns and looking pretty good.

Yeah nice bounce back game for him. Even a good defensive game. -4 but played a team-high 33 minutes. And had a nice steal/def player late in the game. Looks like Carlisle's "tough love" tactic worked.

Also nice to see Jackson remind us of the things he can do. As a center he doesn’t seem that special but, if he could play next to Myles the result on defense could be pretty interesting.

[Grang33r]

Ben getting minutes against the Suns and looking pretty good.

Yeah nice bounce back game for him. Even a good defensive game. -4 but played a team-high 33 minutes. And had a nice steal/def player late in the game. Looks like Carlisle's "tough love" tactic worked.

Also nice to see Jackson remind us of the things he can do. As a center he doesn’t seem that special but, if he could play next to Myles the result on defense could be pretty interesting.

I just wish he could do more of what he did tonight but not just in garbage time. But i mean he is very young still, i think i'm quilty of it as well, but he just turned 21 a month ago. Theres gonna be several players picked in the first round older then him and he's already got 77 games played in the NBA.

[Pacers Forever]

Yeah nice bounce back game for him. Even a good defensive game. -4 but played a team-high 33 minutes. And had a nice steal/def player late in the game. Looks like Carlisle's "tough love" tactic worked.

Also nice to see Jackson remind us of the things he can do. As a center he doesn’t seem that special but, if he could play next to Myles the result on defense could be pretty interesting.

I just wish he could do more of what he did tonight but not just in garbage time. But i mean he is very young still, i think i'm quilty of it as well, but he just turned 21 a month ago. Theres gonna be several players picked in the first round older then him and he's already got 77 games played in the NBA.

We do have a very young team that’s going to take several years to develop our youth into star caliber talent that can handle the top talent from the rest of the league.

When we see glimpses of great play from I Jax, Nembhard, Mathurin, Smith, Duarte, and Nesmith I get overly optimistic. I forget that these guys are one step removed from college and farther away from the talent level of Hield, Turner, and Haliburton than we want.

Our silver lining is so far the front office has kept our core young while the youth become talented enough day in day out to overcome their current mistakes and be solid enough to compete with the best teams.

I put our current losing streak not only on Tyrese’s injury but also on the inexperience of our youth which are both unavoidable and just part of the process.

[xBulletproof]

I 100% agree with you both. The reason i brought this topic on here because i was wondering what you guys thought. On twitter it was the opposite. I don't usually take twitter takes too seriously, afterall, that **** was made as the ultimate shitposting machine, but wanted to see what this board was thinking.

I also think his defense has been loose and he's been making some mistakes lately. Carlisle trying to teach this kid the right ways and using this stretch as a teaching moment. I'm actually happy with how coach Carlisle has handled it, and was taken back on twitter with the consensus of people saying the opposite.

That's also where I got the impression people think we are benching Michael Jordan at times , I ragged on Mathurin a bit on Twitter and Naptown Seth chimed in agreeing with me. On the bright side, I can see changes he's trying to make as the year goes on. Which isn't easy, games are coming at you quickly and practice time is at a minimum. I also think he has a great attitude and work ethic. I expect him to be much different next season, he's still only 20.

The weird part is however, I thought he had a really good shot, but he hasn't shot well at all. I thought that would translate. I also thought in college he drove himself into traffic and into trouble far too often. He didn't to start the season, but it's happened more over time. I'm guessing teams making adjustments.

[Wizop]

Carlisle pretty much said it was a teaching moment about defense.