Pacers need to draft better!

[basketballwacko2]

With the release of 2019 #1 pick Goga, that makes 3 picks from 17, 18 and 19 that didn't make it through their rookie contracts with the Pacers. 2017 #1 pick TJ Leaf was dumped on OKC (Could have been OG), 2018 it was Aaron Holiday (could have been Jalen Brunson) and in 2019 it was Goga (could have been Jordan Poole or Keldon Johnson.)

Our 2020 pick was given to the Bucks in the S&T for Brogdon, and 2021 was Duarte, Jackson, 2022 was Mathurin. So let us hope the last couple years are not like the others and let's hope that the 3 pick plus the high 2nd are well thought out.

[boomershadow]

Agreed that the scouting needed to do better for years. But I also think they needed to work harder on developing that talent and having an idea of how to use it on the court.

Take 3 random players from the draft. It's not like 2 of them are absolutely destined to be great NBA players and 1 is a for sure bust. Players are molded by the circumstances and experiences they have during their formative years in the league.

Neither Nate showed any ability to take young talent and use it effectively on the court, give young players a role. Mold them. Grow them. McMillan would ride the vets for regular season wins, and Bjorkgren never found his footing as a head coach at all. But Aaron Holiday certainly took a step back under his leadership.

Even now I don't like seeing Theis take minutes from Jackson. But you do see a willingness to teach from Carlisle that we haven't seen since probably Vogel.

[Wizop]

I always remember Bill Polian saying in football that you're doing good in the draft if you bat .560. that said, this coming draft with multiple picks is going to be key going forward, but with so many picks, I expect some hits and some misses.

[8305]

Under KP's watch this team has not distinguished itself when drafting. Look at the 2021 draft and plug in Trey Murphy for Duarte and Herb Jones for Jackson. That looks just about as painful the 2017-2019 results. They absolutely need to do a better job. I would like to think the 2022 draft is a turning point. Hopefully getting evaluation better while paying more attention to player development is this norm.

[basketballwacko2]

Under KP's watch this team has not distinguished itself when drafting. Look at the 2021 draft and plug in Trey Murphy for Duarte and Herb Jones for Jackson. That looks just about as painful the 2017-2019 results. They absolutely need to do a better job. I would like to think the 2022 draft is a turning point. Hopefully getting evaluation better while paying more attention to player development is this norm.

Duarte looked pretty good last season, the draft of 22 and the trade last year that brought Hali and Buddy have created a lot of competition for Duarte.

Jackson is raw and still needs to play so he can develop, he should be with the Ants the rest of the year.

We're not making the playoffs based on what I'm seeing. The Pacers exceeded expectations in the first 35 games, they beat the teams they should beat and beat a few they shouldn't have beaten. That's reversing itself now. We're getting beat by Orlando and other teams that are not any better than we are and getting smoked by the better teams.

I don't like to watch the team lose but fact is we're not going anywhere this year.

[8305]

Under KP's watch this team has not distinguished itself when drafting. Look at the 2021 draft and plug in Trey Murphy for Duarte and Herb Jones for Jackson. That looks just about as painful the 2017-2019 results. They absolutely need to do a better job. I would like to think the 2022 draft is a turning point. Hopefully getting evaluation better while paying more attention to player development is this norm.

Duarte looked pretty good last season, the draft of 22 and the trade last year that brought Hali and Buddy have created a lot of competition for Duarte.

Jackson is raw and still needs to play so he can develop, he should be with the Ants the rest of the year.

We're not making the playoffs based on what I'm seeing. The Pacers exceeded expectations in the first 35 games, they beat the teams they should beat and beat a few they shouldn't have beaten. That's reversing itself now. We're getting beat by Orlando and other teams that are not any better than we are and getting smoked by the better teams.

I don't like to watch the team lose but fact is we're not going anywhere this year.

Pacers haven’t had a real 4 since Thad was here. The original theory of drafting Jackson was he could be a 4 but, that was clearly a reach. Duarte was drafted with Brogdan, Levert and Holiday already here. Reminds me of when we passed on Jrue Holiday. Passing on what turned out to be a superior player who played a position we needed.

[basketballwacko2]

Under KP's watch this team has not distinguished itself when drafting. Look at the 2021 draft and plug in Trey Murphy for Duarte and Herb Jones for Jackson. That looks just about as painful the 2017-2019 results. They absolutely need to do a better job. I would like to think the 2022 draft is a turning point. Hopefully getting evaluation better while paying more attention to player development is this norm.

Duarte looked pretty good last season, the draft of 22 and the trade last year that brought Hali and Buddy have created a lot of competition for Duarte.

Jackson is raw and still needs to play so he can develop, he should be with the Ants the rest of the year.

We're not making the playoffs based on what I'm seeing. The Pacers exceeded expectations in the first 35 games, they beat the teams they should beat and beat a few they shouldn't have beaten. That's reversing itself now. We're getting beat by Orlando and other teams that are not any better than we are and getting smoked by the better teams.

I don't like to watch the team lose but fact is we're not going anywhere this year.

Pacers haven’t had a real 4 since Thad was here. The original theory of drafting Jackson was he could be a 4 but, that was clearly a reach. Duarte was drafted with Brogdan, Levert and Holiday already here. Reminds me of when we passed on Jrue Holiday. Passing on what turned out to be a superior player who played a position we needed.

I said this before about Duarte, he looked fine last season, but the draft gave us Ben, Nemhbard, and the trade gave us Hali and Buddy, and the other trade added Nesmith. All guards, although Nesmith plays a lot of 3/4.

This summer will be interesting we'll have space and 3 #1's and likely a high 2nd. Will Buddy and Theis get traded? What do we do with Smith?

I don't think we're making the play offs nor should we. Look at the schedule if we win 10 out of the remaining 25 we'll be lucky. It's not that we suck, but the teams we are playing are better. I'll predict we end up in 6th over all draft order.

[Topofthekey]

Under KP's watch this team has not distinguished itself when drafting. Look at the 2021 draft and plug in Trey Murphy for Duarte and Herb Jones for Jackson. That looks just about as painful the 2017-2019 results. They absolutely need to do a better job. I would like to think the 2022 draft is a turning point. Hopefully getting evaluation better while paying more attention to player development is this norm.

Duarte looked pretty good last season, the draft of 22 and the trade last year that brought Hali and Buddy have created a lot of competition for Duarte.

Jackson is raw and still needs to play so he can develop, he should be with the Ants the rest of the year.

We're not making the playoffs based on what I'm seeing. The Pacers exceeded expectations in the first 35 games, they beat the teams they should beat and beat a few they shouldn't have beaten. That's reversing itself now. We're getting beat by Orlando and other teams that are not any better than we are and getting smoked by the better teams.

I don't like to watch the team lose but fact is we're not going anywhere this year.

Pacers haven’t had a real 4 since Thad was here. The original theory of drafting Jackson was he could be a 4 but, that was clearly a reach. Duarte was drafted with Brogdan, Levert and Holiday already here. Reminds me of when we passed on Jrue Holiday. Passing on what turned out to be a superior player who played a position we needed.

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

[8305]

Duarte looked pretty good last season, the draft of 22 and the trade last year that brought Hali and Buddy have created a lot of competition for Duarte.

Jackson is raw and still needs to play so he can develop, he should be with the Ants the rest of the year.

We're not making the playoffs based on what I'm seeing. The Pacers exceeded expectations in the first 35 games, they beat the teams they should beat and beat a few they shouldn't have beaten. That's reversing itself now. We're getting beat by Orlando and other teams that are not any better than we are and getting smoked by the better teams.

I don't like to watch the team lose but fact is we're not going anywhere this year.

Pacers haven’t had a real 4 since Thad was here. The original theory of drafting Jackson was he could be a 4 but, that was clearly a reach. Duarte was drafted with Brogdan, Levert and Holiday already here. Reminds me of when we passed on Jrue Holiday. Passing on what turned out to be a superior player who played a position we needed.

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

You are right it’s easy to nitpick prior drafts. Unfortunately it’s a little too easy as a Pacer fan. There is still time for Duarte and Jackson to make the 2021 draft look better. I’d like to be wrong.

[Grang33r]

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

The biggest issue i've always had with Duarte was his age. And now that his game has fallen off the face of the earth i think we can criticize that pick. The Pacers at the time thought they needed to add to the team of Sabonis, Brogdon and Turner for a strong playoff push, loved Duarte's ability to spread the floor, hit 3s and with his age be NBA ready (which he proved right going 6-9 from 3PT & 27 points in debut). The front office should have been able to realize they needed more then that and not sacrificed a pick for short term gain. That was a oversight on their part.

Only alternative that wouldve made sense at that pick is Moses Moody. He hasn't lit the league on fire yet either though, but he isn't even 21 yet. Duarte is a few months from being 26.

But normally i do agree. Nitpicking missed selections is easy to do after the fact and everyone misses on picks. It's not a exact science. It's still a crapshoot. Essp the lower you get in the draft. It's when you miss top 10 selections where it hurts. And essp picks in the top 5-6 when you miss it's a fireable offense. Pacers never pick there except recently with Mathurin. And maybe next draft.

[Grang33r]

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

You are right it’s easy to nitpick prior drafts. Unfortunately it’s a little too easy as a Pacer fan. There is still time for Duarte and Jackson to make the 2021 draft look better. I’d like to be wrong.[/quote]

I'm just hoping they can find a trade partner for Duarte.

As for Jackson, i think he may end up being a steal in that draft. Sure last night was garbage time but he shows flashes of all-star caliber talent. Hes a freak athlete, moves up and down the court with ease, very few big men get off the ground as high and as easy as him, defense always improving, he's be a rim protector, made a nice 3 look easy last night and he just turned 21a month ago.

[Topofthekey]

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

The biggest issue i've always had with Duarte was his age. And now that his game has fallen off the face of the earth i think we can criticize that pick. The Pacers at the time thought they needed to add to the team of Sabonis, Brogdon and Turner for a strong playoff push, loved Duarte's ability to spread the floor, hit 3s and with his age be NBA ready (which he proved right going 6-9 from 3PT & 27 points in debut). The front office should have been able to realize they needed more then that and not sacrificed a pick for short term gain. That was a oversight on their part.

Only alternative that wouldve made sense at that pick is Moses Moody. He hasn't lit the league on fire yet either though, but he isn't even 21 yet. Duarte is a few months from being 26.

But normally i do agree. Nitpicking missed selections is easy to do after the fact and everyone misses on picks. It's not a exact science. It's still a crapshoot. Essp the lower you get in the draft. It's when you miss top 10 selections where it hurts. And essp picks in the top 5-6 when you miss it's a fireable offense. Pacers never pick there except recently with Mathurin. And maybe next draft.

Duarte's been struggling with his ankle this season though, I'm sure that's affected his game a lot. It's just way too early to dismiss him as a wasted pick

[Pacers Forever]

Bottom of the roster le $$ T Queen and K Brown are 2 way contracts and are subject to team moves in the upcoming offseason easily parted ways with.

Pacers only have 3 free agents at the end of the season. Johnson(assuming he re-signs), Hill, and Brissett.

Upcoming draft we have 3 first round draft picks which 2 will be almost second round. Plus 2 second round picks which one is the Spurs(good) and the other is from Houston, Miami, or Dallas(probably a late pick).

So there’s a lot of draft capital to use in a trade which is Pritchard’s preferred route since free agency is tough for our market. Sending out picks plus current players to bring in a bigger name or younger position of need.

As far as the draft goes one very good talent pick and everything else is lesser talent possibly unless you hit a hidden gem as we did with I Jax and Nembhard hopefully.

Obviously seasoning up draft picks takes 2-5 years depending upon talent level. Way too slow unless you’re in full rebuild mode like Orlando, San Antonio, Houston, or OKC.

So I personally don’t see the Pacers making the huge talent jump they need to compete for 1-6 playoff spots in the East unless they get active again in the trade market to bring in more young vets to couple with Tyrese and Benn.

[basketballwacko2]

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

The biggest issue i've always had with Duarte was his age. And now that his game has fallen off the face of the earth i think we can criticize that pick.

This is a very cheap critique of Duarte and a shallow look at his 2022-23 season. His minutes are down for multiple reasons. Injuries played a big part in that and like I'm pointed out now about 3 times, the Pacers invested in a young player at the same spot he plays, so with the Trade that brought "Buddy the Gunner" to us also at the 2 guard, Duarte has been pushed to the side, and to the SF spot.

Now I'll agree with some who say the 2 and 3 are not that different but you are guarding bigger guys at the 3 so it's more physical. Remember when old "PG" didn't want to move to the PF? Same reason.

I think we hold on to Duarte for depth reasons, but if the right deal comes along this summer he might be moved just because of the personnel we have at the guard spot.

[Wizop]

So I personally don’t see the Pacers making the huge talent jump they need to compete for 1-6 playoff spots in the East unless they get active again in the trade market to bring in more young vets to couple with Tyrese and Benn.

You aren't allowing much for player growth. We were 6th not long ago. I think we can get back there next year but top 4 is probably more distant.

[basketballwacko2]

Bottom of the roster le $$ T Queen and K Brown are 2 way contracts and are subject to team moves in the upcoming offseason easily parted ways with.

Pacers only have 3 free agents at the end of the season. Johnson(assuming he re-signs), Hill, and Brissett.

Upcoming draft we have 3 first round draft picks which 2 will be almost second round. Plus 2 second round picks which one is the Spurs(good) and the other is from Houston, Miami, or Dallas(probably a late pick).

So there’s a lot of draft capital to use in a trade which is Pritchard’s preferred route since free agency is tough for our market. Sending out picks plus current players to bring in a bigger name or younger position of need.

As far as the draft goes one very good talent pick and everything else is lesser talent possibly unless you hit a hidden gem as we did with I Jax and Nembhard hopefully.

Obviously seasoning up draft picks takes 2-5 years depending upon talent level. Way too slow unless you’re in full rebuild mode like Orlando, San Antonio, Houston, or OKC.

So I personally don’t see the Pacers making the huge talent jump they need to compete for 1-6 playoff spots in the East unless they get active again in the trade market to bring in more young vets to couple with Tyrese and Benn.

Seems like I'm just correcting everyone today so sorry if it comes off that way but we don't have the Spurs 2nd, that's a top 55 protected 2nd. We might have the Rockets 2nd if it is 31 or 32 look at what this says, it's a jumble puzzle but it's clear that the Spurs 2nd is top 55 protected.

2023 - 31-55 to SAC; 56-60 to SAN; Less favorable of DAL and MIA if HOU 31-32 and if BOS 1-12; more favorable of (i) HOU 33-60 and (ii) less favorable of DAL and MIA if BOS 1-12 (via MIA to DAL; via MEM swap of DAL or MIA for HOU; via BOS to IND); HOU 31-32; or least favorable of HOU 33-60, DAL and MIA (via MIA to DAL; via MEM swap of DAL or MIA for HOU); SAN 56-60

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

There is a ton of conditions on these picks.

[basketballwacko2]

So I personally don’t see the Pacers making the huge talent jump they need to compete for 1-6 playoff spots in the East unless they get active again in the trade market to bring in more young vets to couple with Tyrese and Benn.

You aren't allowing much for player growth. We were 6th not long ago. I think we can get back there next year but top 4 is probably more distant.

Top 4 is pretty tough we'd have to have a lot of growth. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm betting on we get the 6th draft pick this year and worry about playoffs next season.

I was about to break into my Jim Mora impression...

[Wizop]

I think we had a high second last week and added a lower one this week.

[Pacers Forever]

Bottom of the roster le $$ T Queen and K Brown are 2 way contracts and are subject to team moves in the upcoming offseason easily parted ways with.

Pacers only have 3 free agents at the end of the season. Johnson(assuming he re-signs), Hill, and Brissett.

Upcoming draft we have 3 first round draft picks which 2 will be almost second round. Plus 2 second round picks which one is the Spurs(good) and the other is from Houston, Miami, or Dallas(probably a late pick).

So there’s a lot of draft capital to use in a trade which is Pritchard’s preferred route since free agency is tough for our market. Sending out picks plus current players to bring in a bigger name or younger position of need.

As far as the draft goes one very good talent pick and everything else is lesser talent possibly unless you hit a hidden gem as we did with I Jax and Nembhard hopefully.

Obviously seasoning up draft picks takes 2-5 years depending upon talent level. Way too slow unless you’re in full rebuild mode like Orlando, San Antonio, Houston, or OKC.

So I personally don’t see the Pacers making the huge talent jump they need to compete for 1-6 playoff spots in the East unless they get active again in the trade market to bring in more young vets to couple with Tyrese and Benn.

Seems like I'm just correcting everyone today so sorry if it comes off that way but we don't have the Spurs 2nd, that's a top 55 protected 2nd. We might have the Rockets 2nd if it is 31 or 32 look at what this says, it's a jumble puzzle but it's clear that the Spurs 2nd is top 55 protected.

2023 - 31-55 to SAC; 56-60 to SAN; Less favorable of DAL and MIA if HOU 31-32 and if BOS 1-12; more favorable of (i) HOU 33-60 and (ii) less favorable of DAL and MIA if BOS 1-12 (via MIA to DAL; via MEM swap of DAL or MIA for HOU; via BOS to IND); HOU 31-32; or least favorable of HOU 33-60, DAL and MIA (via MIA to DAL; via MEM swap of DAL or MIA for HOU); SAN 56-60

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

There is a ton of conditions on these picks.

Yea website I used didn’t specify the details associated with any of the picks. Just listed ownership for Pacers future draft picks.

I posted a better picture of our draft picks a couple days ago in another thread.

[Grang33r]

It's easy to go back and nitpick on all the good players a team passed on in previous drafts

Jokic was drafted in the second round. Does that mean every single team in the league has a terrible draft track record?

No one complained about Duarte when he played at ROTY level last season

The biggest issue i've always had with Duarte was his age. And now that his game has fallen off the face of the earth i think we can criticize that pick.

This is a very cheap critique of Duarte and a shallow look at his 2022-23 season. His minutes are down for multiple reasons. Injuries played a big part in that and like I'm pointed out now about 3 times, the Pacers invested in a young player at the same spot he plays, so with the Trade that brought "Buddy the Gunner" to us also at the 2 guard, Duarte has been pushed to the side, and to the SF spot.

Criticizing his age is a cheap critique? I don't think so, you limit yourself on a players long term development. The critique isn't on Duarte as it is on the management for not realizing how far they actually were from the playoffs. Pacers thought they were closer then most fans did and picked a ready-to-play player in the draft.

Duarte has played between 20-30 minutes 11 times this season, including 4 starts:

10 ppg, 32.1% FG%, 27.2% 3PT% in those games.