2023 Pacers offseason

[Grang33r]

Interesting tidbit from Lowe on his podcast today about off-season activity. I copy and pasted this from the wiretap but i did hear it on his podcast this morning-

"This is all prelude to I think the next year in the NBA could be an unbelievable period of superstar and star player movement because you've just got a lot of sort of roiling situations," said Lowe on his podcast. "You have one year left before the really harsh trade rules kick into place after the 2023-24 season where teams over the second apron, like the Clippers, for instance, cannot even aggregate salaries. They can't add up money to bring in a big money player. That's starting after next season.

"I think we could see a ton of movement in the offseason and up to the deadline. And a ton of big names moving. That's not to say Embiid, but I think this going to be a hot and heavy offseason and people should buckle up."

Link- https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/271571/NBA-Could-Be-Entering-Unbelievable-Period-Of-Star-Player-Movement-Through-2024-Trade-Deadline

[Topofthekey]

Adding on to the Walker vs Hendricks debate

I also think that Whitmore being a 3/4 makes him a more attractive prospect than Walker to many GMs

Actually, I kind of expect both Hendricks and Whitmore to get picked before Walker

[basketballwacko2]

Interesting tidbit from Lowe on his podcast today about off-season activity. I copy and pasted this from the wiretap but i did hear it on his podcast this morning-

"This is all prelude to I think the next year in the NBA could be an unbelievable period of superstar and star player movement because you've just got a lot of sort of roiling situations," said Lowe on his podcast. "You have one year left before the really harsh trade rules kick into place after the 2023-24 season where teams over the second apron, like the Clippers, for instance, cannot even aggregate salaries. They can't add up money to bring in a big money player. That's starting after next season.

"I think we could see a ton of movement in the offseason and up to the deadline. And a ton of big names moving. That's not to say Embiid, but I think this going to be a hot and heavy offseason and people should buckle up."

Link- https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/271571/NBA-Could-Be-Entering-Unbelievable-Period-Of-Star-Player-Movement-Through-2024-Trade-Deadline

Sounds like they're trying to end the super team trades where a team trades 4 #1's and swaps plus salary filler to get a guy like the Gobert deal.

[Helsbyte]

I really hope we trade up for Leonard Miller. He has been on my radar since last year and has done nothing to change my mind about his potential. If we come away with one of Walker/Ausar/Hendricks plus Leonard Miller I would be thrilled.

[Scoot McGroot]

I really hope we trade up for Leonard Miller. He has been on my radar since last year and has done nothing to change my mind about his potential. If we come away with one of Walker/Ausar/Hendricks plus Leonard Miller I would be thrilled.

If we got two lanky, long term possibilities at the forward spots, I’d be in absolute heaven!

[Wizop]

I really hope we trade up for Leonard Miller. He has been on my radar since last year and has done nothing to change my mind about his potential. If we come away with one of Walker/Ausar/Hendricks plus Leonard Miller I would be thrilled.

If we got two lanky, long term possibilities at the forward spots, I’d be in absolute heaven!

Walker is more beefy than lanky but two forwards would be great.

[Scoot McGroot]

I really hope we trade up for Leonard Miller. He has been on my radar since last year and has done nothing to change my mind about his potential. If we come away with one of Walker/Ausar/Hendricks plus Leonard Miller I would be thrilled.

If we got two lanky, long term possibilities at the forward spots, I’d be in absolute heaven!

Walker is more beefy than lanky but two forwards would be great.

Sure. I was a bit generous, but really just meant “two actual forwards”.

[Helsbyte]

I see Leonard Miller creeping up draft boards and I highly doubt he is there at 26.

[Scoot McGroot]

I see Leonard Miller creeping up draft boards and I highly doubt he is there at 26.

Oh, he’d for sure need a trade up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up around 15 on draft night.

[xBulletproof]

We are right where I didn't want to be. I said before the season here and other places, that the Pacers HAD to trade Buddy/Myles to keep themselves at the top of the draft and get Hali a 2nd star. Was told I was wrong by most, and one place someone was so rude I just left the Discord. Yet, alas here we finished, right outside of the range of a star, praying for a miracle in the lottery (didn't get it), and now for one in the draft.

I said we'd end up 30+ win team, and outside the range of drafting a star, some people were convinced we were a 15-20 win team at full strength. As annoyed I am that I was right, because I wanted a 2nd star, it does set up for a very aggressive and busy offseason however.

We have 12 players under contract, that leaves 2-3 roster spots, but we have 5 draft picks, AND plenty of cap space to chase free agents. Obviously things have to change. If you want to chase 1-2 free agents, you're gonna have to move some draft picks, and players under contract both.

The clear priority for me is a 2nd star player, and no I'm not convinced that's Mathurin, so I don't care what position they play as long as it isn't PG. SF/PF would be ideal, considering we are playing guys there that wouldn't see the floor on a contender. The only guys we have that would play significant minutes on a contender is Hali, Turner and maybe Mathurin one day if he can fix a list of issues. Mathurin dog attitude and work ethic makes me hopeful he will get there, but I don't want to bank on it.

So for me, this offseason being a success will come down to us making a pick that blossoms into something most didn't expect which isn't impossible at 7, but still highly unlikely, or what stars become available on the market and jumping on it. I'm intrigued knowing we will have to be active, but apprehensive that we will accomplish what I want.

[Topofthekey]

We are right where I didn't want to be. I said before the season here and other places, that the Pacers HAD to trade Buddy/Myles to keep themselves at the top of the draft and get Hali a 2nd star. Was told I was wrong by most, and one place someone was so rude I just left the Discord. Yet, alas here we finished, right outside of the range of a star, praying for a miracle in the lottery (didn't get it), and now for one in the draft.

I said we'd end up 30+ win team, and outside the range of drafting a star, some people were convinced we were a 15-20 win team at full strength. As annoyed I am that I was right, because I wanted a 2nd star, it does set up for a very aggressive and busy offseason however.

We have 12 players under contract, that leaves 2-3 roster spots, but we have 5 draft picks, AND plenty of cap space to chase free agents. Obviously things have to change. If you want to chase 1-2 free agents, you're gonna have to move some draft picks, and players under contract both.

The clear priority for me is a 2nd star player, and no I'm not convinced that's Mathurin, so I don't care what position they play as long as it isn't PG. SF/PF would be ideal, considering we are playing guys there that wouldn't see the floor on a contender. The only guys we have that would play significant minutes on a contender is Hali, Turner and maybe Mathurin one day if he can fix a list of issues. Mathurin dog attitude and work ethic makes me hopeful he will get there, but I don't want to bank on it.

So for me, this offseason being a success will come down to us making a pick that blossoms into something most didn't expect which isn't impossible at 7, but still highly unlikely, or what stars become available on the market and jumping on it. I'm intrigued knowing we will have to be active, but apprehensive that we will accomplish what I want.

Pistons had the worst record and is picking #5

[basketballwacko2]

We are right where I didn't want to be. I said before the season here and other places, that the Pacers HAD to trade Buddy/Myles to keep themselves at the top of the draft and get Hali a 2nd star. Was told I was wrong by most, and one place someone was so rude I just left the Discord. Yet, alas here we finished, right outside of the range of a star, praying for a miracle in the lottery (didn't get it), and now for one in the draft.

I said we'd end up 30+ win team, and outside the range of drafting a star, some people were convinced we were a 15-20 win team at full strength. As annoyed I am that I was right, because I wanted a 2nd star, it does set up for a very aggressive and busy offseason however.

We have 12 players under contract, that leaves 2-3 roster spots, but we have 5 draft picks, AND plenty of cap space to chase free agents. Obviously things have to change. If you want to chase 1-2 free agents, you're gonna have to move some draft picks, and players under contract both.

The clear priority for me is a 2nd star player, and no I'm not convinced that's Mathurin, so I don't care what position they play as long as it isn't PG. SF/PF would be ideal, considering we are playing guys there that wouldn't see the floor on a contender. The only guys we have that would play significant minutes on a contender is Hali, Turner and maybe Mathurin one day if he can fix a list of issues. Mathurin dog attitude and work ethic makes me hopeful he will get there, but I don't want to bank on it.

So for me, this offseason being a success will come down to us making a pick that blossoms into something most didn't expect which isn't impossible at 7, but still highly unlikely, or what stars become available on the market and jumping on it. I'm intrigued knowing we will have to be active, but apprehensive that we will accomplish what I want.

Pistons had the worst record and is picking #5

Yeah if the pacers had done what people said and traded Buddy and Turner to the LAL for that 2027 #1 they'd be picking 4th at best, not that much better than what we have now.

Some moves will be made but the team is closer to being a good team now and the picks should help.

[Scoot McGroot]

We are right where I didn't want to be. I said before the season here and other places, that the Pacers HAD to trade Buddy/Myles to keep themselves at the top of the draft and get Hali a 2nd star. Was told I was wrong by most, and one place someone was so rude I just left the Discord. Yet, alas here we finished, right outside of the range of a star, praying for a miracle in the lottery (didn't get it), and now for one in the draft.

I said we'd end up 30+ win team, and outside the range of drafting a star, some people were convinced we were a 15-20 win team at full strength. As annoyed I am that I was right, because I wanted a 2nd star, it does set up for a very aggressive and busy offseason however.

We have 12 players under contract, that leaves 2-3 roster spots, but we have 5 draft picks, AND plenty of cap space to chase free agents. Obviously things have to change. If you want to chase 1-2 free agents, you're gonna have to move some draft picks, and players under contract both.

The clear priority for me is a 2nd star player, and no I'm not convinced that's Mathurin, so I don't care what position they play as long as it isn't PG. SF/PF would be ideal, considering we are playing guys there that wouldn't see the floor on a contender. The only guys we have that would play significant minutes on a contender is Hali, Turner and maybe Mathurin one day if he can fix a list of issues. Mathurin dog attitude and work ethic makes me hopeful he will get there, but I don't want to bank on it.

So for me, this offseason being a success will come down to us making a pick that blossoms into something most didn't expect which isn't impossible at 7, but still highly unlikely, or what stars become available on the market and jumping on it. I'm intrigued knowing we will have to be active, but apprehensive that we will accomplish what I want.

Problem is, you’d have had to sit Hali almost all year and sacrifice a whole year of his development. This team couldn’t “tank” until Hali wasn’t on the court. And it definitely wouldn’t have been worth burning a bridge with Hali and giving up a year of his growth.

It’s real easy to say “get him another great pick”, and it would’ve been great if we could’ve gotten Wemby. But as others have pointed out, Detroit tanked hard and ended up 5th. We played it straight and ended up 7th. What can you do.

[xBulletproof]

Problem is, you’d have had to sit Hali almost all year and sacrifice a whole year of his development. This team couldn’t “tank” until Hali wasn’t on the court. And it definitely wouldn’t have been worth burning a bridge with Hali and giving up a year of his growth.

It’s real easy to say “get him another great pick”, and it would’ve been great if we could’ve gotten Wemby. But as others have pointed out, Detroit tanked hard and ended up 5th. We played it straight and ended up 7th. What can you do.

Without Myles and Buddy, Hali could have played all year and we would have been bad enough to pick higher. The team as we went through the season had to sit Hali to tank, and people still argued that we were a 20 win team with me all offseason. It is very clear that was not right, which I knew. If Hali didn't sit over bumps and bruises, we probably win a few more games.

What can you do? You can give yourself the best odds, that's what. We did not do that, or even try. There are 3 guys with clear star potential in this draft, and we had to have a miracle happen to get one of them. That wasn't necessary. That's what you can do, not rely on lottery miracles and put yourself in a position where the odds are in your favor. Sure, DET got shafted, everyone is ignoring the ONLY movement in the lottery was inside the top 5, which is what the odds are will happen, because all those teams have the best chances. Essentially, all the worst teams record wise 1 through 5 are picking 1-5 in the draft post lottery. That's what giving yourself the best odds looks like.

Yeah if the pacers had done what people said and traded Buddy and Turner to the LAL for that 2027 #1 they'd be picking 4th at best, not that much better than what we have now.

Some moves will be made but the team is closer to being a good team now and the picks should help.

There is literally no way you can say "picking 4th at best". You're just saying what you need to say to make yourself feel better about it. Even where we were were we could have picked #1 at best (6% chance). So being higher in the lottery would have made us have a worse best case scenario? That literally flies in the face of all logic and probabilities. Especially considering the 5 worst teams, all stayed in the top 5 picks in the draft. Without Buddy/Myles, we are almost certainly in that top 5. Particularly ahead of Portland who was only 2 losses ahead of us, maybe ahead of Charlotte. Where are those teams picking? I'll give you a hint, it's not 4th at best.

[Scoot McGroot]

Problem is, you’d have had to sit Hali almost all year and sacrifice a whole year of his development. This team couldn’t “tank” until Hali wasn’t on the court. And it definitely wouldn’t have been worth burning a bridge with Hali and giving up a year of his growth.

It’s real easy to say “get him another great pick”, and it would’ve been great if we could’ve gotten Wemby. But as others have pointed out, Detroit tanked hard and ended up 5th. We played it straight and ended up 7th. What can you do.

Without Myles and Buddy, Hali could have played all year and we would have been bad enough to pick higher. The team as we went through the season had to sit Hali to tank, and people still argued that we were a 20 win team with me all offseason. It is very clear that was not right, which I knew. If Hali didn't sit over bumps and bruises, we probably win a few more games.

What can you do? You can give yourself the best odds, that's what. We did not do that, or even try. There are 3 guys with clear star potential in this draft, and we had to have a miracle happen to get one of them. That wasn't necessary. That's what you can do, not rely on lottery miracles and put yourself in a position where the odds are in your favor. Sure, DET got shafted, everyone is ignoring the ONLY movement in the lottery was inside the top 5, which is what the odds are will happen, because all those teams have the best chances. Essentially, all the worst teams record wise 1 through 5 are picking 1-5 in the draft post lottery. That's what giving yourself the best odds looks like.

Yeah if the pacers had done what people said and traded Buddy and Turner to the LAL for that 2027 #1 they'd be picking 4th at best, not that much better than what we have now.

Some moves will be made but the team is closer to being a good team now and the picks should help.

There is literally no way you can say "picking 4th at best". You're just saying what you need to say to make yourself feel better about it. Even where we were were we could have picked #1 at best (6% chance). So being higher in the lottery would have made us have a worse best case scenario? That literally flies in the face of all logic and probabilities. Especially considering the 5 worst teams, all stayed in the top 5 picks in the draft. Without Buddy/Myles, we are almost certainly in that top 5. Particularly ahead of Portland who was only 2 losses ahead of us, maybe ahead of Charlotte. Where are those teams picking? I'll give you a hint, it's not 4th at best.

So you’d have supported benching Hali for a whole season to try and get to the bottom of the lottery? Full on tanking and not developing talent, but just tanking to draft high in a couple years and then start developing them later?

You’re kind of describing the Clippers of the 80’s and 90’s, and the pre Lebron Cavs. I think you’d have to be comfortable with a 5-10 year bottom dwelling if you’re all in to the e tent of tanking that you’re describing. And you’re gonna burn bridges with the few good players you get in that timeframe and they’re going to want out asap.

[Wizop]

Wemby and Miller would've been nice, but this team is not in need of a star scorer. We need defense and rebounding. We must stop giving up 60 and 70 point halves. I see the draft as fairly flat from 4 through someplace around 8 to 10. I like our options.

Plus, the CBA forces us to acquire an expensive piece.

[Topofthekey]

^this

Reading the wiretap report about Miller not being in the best of condition, I'm not even sure that he's the BPA at #3

To me there isn't that big a gap from #3 to #9ish, which works in our favour

There's no urgency to trade up, and I bet there'll still be 2 or 3 good options to choose from by our turn to pick

And as pointed out, we need to spend money

Between our pick at #7 and throwing money at someone in FA, we can plug the hole at both forward positions

Honestly we're in pretty good shape

[ahartleyvu]

Any chance we could nab Kuminga + 19 somehow?

[basketballwacko2]

There is literally no way you can say "picking 4th at best". You're just saying what you need to say to make yourself feel better about it. Even where we were were we could have picked #1 at best (6% chance). So being higher in the lottery would have made us have a worse best case scenario? That literally flies in the face of all logic and probabilities. Especially considering the 5 worst teams, all stayed in the top 5 picks in the draft. Without Buddy/Myles, we are almost certainly in that top 5. Particularly ahead of Portland who was only 2 losses ahead of us, maybe ahead of Charlotte. Where are those teams picking? I'll give you a hint, it's not 4th at best.

Ask yourself when was the last time the Pacers got lucky in the lottery? Yeah, Never! Look it's San Antonio, Orlando, Cleveland, Minnesota, over and over at #1, the pacers never move up in the lottery. So there is no reason to think they would have drawn better if they were the 4th worst record. The 3 worst teams all have a 14% chance so even if they'd be 12 wins there's still no way to expect better than 3rd, and it seems every year some team below the pacers moves up.

[Wizop]

it seems every year some team below the pacers moves up.

Not this year. Please no conspiracy theories.