RealGM

OK,.. legit question here, 'cause I would really value this groups opinions.

If you could make a trade for the pacers, based on our 2023-24 roster, & get any player in the league, other than the obvious superstars (I mean who wouldn't want Giannis on this team) who would you like to see us add? Why?....

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give/ =]

Good question. I would be looking for a (not too old) 2 way combo forward that can grow with this team. Think OG, Mikal Bridges, etc.

But every team desperately wants that.

A cool but unrealistic scenario for me would be Paul George. The return story would be neat. He is friends with Haliburton. The team could use a player of his size and skillset.

The Clippers would probably want too much for me to actually pull the trigger on that kind of trade. I think the real right answer is for the team to keep growing organically than trying pull off any trade for a huge missing piece.

Free agent forwards next summer. None are restricted.
Kawhi Leonard
Pascal Siakim
OG
PG
Miles Bridges
Jonathan Kuminga

I keep thinking that someone like Tari Eason would be a good fit for this team. He's more of a 4/3, but the rebounding, his defense, his speed could work really well with the Pacers?

Solid wrote:Free agent forwards next summer. None are restricted.
Kawhi Leonard
Pascal Siakim
OG
PG
Miles Bridges
Jonathan Kuminga

Kuminga would be a restricted free agent if GS tenders a qualifying offer, which they likely will.

JMaster5K wrote:I keep thinking that someone like Tari Eason would be a good fit for this team. He's more of a 4/3, but the rebounding, his defense, his speed could work really well with the Pacers?

I think you’re mostly right. I worry that Eason’s style is too free. I don’t know that he fits in a team style or system and he’s mostly just playing pickup style ball right now. I’d worry that if he’s having to think too much, he loses what he’s got? If that makes sense?

I'm not excited about any of our 3s as starters. Plenty of good backups however.
I'm content to see in house development at all the other spots.
So I'd like to see us grab a wing that's at least 6'7", over 200lbs... and who shows promise as a 3 &D starter.
Here are the top SF prospects in the next draft as rated by the NBA Draft Room. I know nothing at all about them.

Matas Buzelis – 6-10 – G League Ignite
Ron Holland – 6-8 – G League Ignite
Justin Edwards – 6-7 – Kentucky
Mackenzie Mgbako – 6-8 – Indiana
Dillon Mitchell – 6-7 – Texas
Cody Williams – 6-8 – Colorado

Solid wrote:I'm not excited about any of our 3s as starters.

Oh, I’m excited about Brown as the starter. I think he’ll help a lot of the defensive issues on the perimeter and he’s a solid secondary distributor and connective piece.

So I'd like to see us grab a wing that's at least 6'7", over 200lbs... and who shows promise as a 3 &D starter.

Oh, agreed. I’d love to see a real 6’8”-6’9” type guy that can develop on both ends. 100% agreed.

Here are the top SF prospects in the next draft as rated by the NBA Draft Room. I know nothing at all about them.

Matas Buzelis – 6-10 – G League Ignite
Ron Holland – 6-8 – G League Ignite
Justin Edwards – 6-7 – Kentucky
Mackenzie Mgbako – 6-8 – Indiana
Dillon Mitchell – 6-7 – Texas
Cody Williams – 6-8 – Colorado

In general, this is a down draft as of now in terms of talent. For the most part, these guys are currently projected as if they would be in the 20’s to later in this past draft. There could be depth pieces, but it’s not projected to be a starter type draft.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:I keep thinking that someone like Tari Eason would be a good fit for this team. He's more of a 4/3, but the rebounding, his defense, his speed could work really well with the Pacers?

I think you’re mostly right. I worry that Eason’s style is too free. I don’t know that he fits in a team style or system and he’s mostly just playing pickup style ball right now. I’d worry that if he’s having to think too much, he loses what he’s got? If that makes sense?

Yeah,.. I thought the same of him coming out of LSU,... 'How's he going to fit in to a structured NBA offense & defense?' I thought this year, he proved me wrong. He really fit in well in Houston's team defense. Played his role well,. but meshed really well with his teammates on switches & spot coverages, communicated really well. It was largely his defense that made him 2nd team all rookie last year (very unexpectedly).

His offense needs a bit more work, but where I thought he was going to be undisciplined, he again fit in well. Ran to the corner to open the floor. Took & actually made enough 3's, within the flow, to make teams adjust to cover him. He showed a really great ability to rebound, even when playing closer to the perimeter by reading the floor. He did play better when playing fast. does need to get a bit stronger.

I can't think of many players that could play the 4 at Ty's full speed and still defend to the level that Coach requires. I think unfortunately for Tari,.. 2 of them are on his team, Jabari Smith and himself. So far going into this year, even with Tari being better than advertised, Smith has outplayed him. So, Tari is, at best, in Houston depth with no clear path to getting a larger role. (Dillon Brooks also has to factor into Tari's chances in Houston.) In Indy, I could very easily see Tari with a much clearer path to develop into a larger role. He would be the only player we have like him. As a result, he could have that clear path to develop without having to take opportunities away from someone else on the team. (Though if it did impact anyone, it's likely it would be I-Jacks or Stix.)

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Solid wrote:I'm not excited about any of our 3s as starters.

Oh, I’m excited about Brown as the starter. I think he’ll help a lot of the defensive issues on the perimeter and he’s a solid secondary distributor and connective piece.

I don't really like any of our pure 3's as a starters (at this point) either. I had Buddy penciled in as the starter at the 3, with he and Bruce sometimes inverting their side of the floor (SG running down to the corner while the SF either cuts through or slides up) using both Buddy's shot & Bruce's ability to get to the rim to flex a defense.

Nesmith's fundamentals both ways are so good & he is so versatile, that he really should be a key, core role player off the bench able to play 4 positions depending on matchups, but he might get lost a little bit this year as some of the rotation begins to shake out.

I know I'm in the minority, but, at least for me, (and Coach's history with players & rosters), Jarace should develop into the starter & key player at the 3. I think when some of this begins to shake out, that our weak positions will still be the 4 and young backup 5. That's the reason I like Eason. He can be that other wing defender at either the 3 or the 4 (even small ball 5) that can give us a complete defense, with the potential to play in the offense like a younger, more athletic Obi?

Obi can definitely run & play the type of offensive game that Coach has preferred at the 4 in the past, but he doesn't seem to fit defensively because of his indecision & slow footwork. Don't really see that changing. Which would once again leave us with our 2 primary defenders in the backcourt (last year Hali & Nembhard, this year Hali & Brown) with no defense on the wings. That's the same recipe that had us, what? 29th in the league in defensive rating?

To fix that without adjusting the roster, we would have to have Nembhard or Nesmith start again? Walker prove that he should be starting? Benn prove that his defense has improved to starter level?... or maybe nobody (other than Brown) on the wings will play 'full starters minutes' with the players being used depending on matchups to keep some ability at defense & offense on the floor at the same time, relying on the coaches to scheme things week by week to keep our defense competitive? until someone proves they can be the other wing-defender the Pacers need?....

Or as Scoot said,.. we have Bruce start at the 3, and then see if we have anyone (besides Nembhard or Nesmith) that can defend at the 2? but we still need another wing, two way player to make things work? I like Bruce at the 2, because his on-ball defense is top notch. That would allow Hali to defend off-ball where his skills are maximized.

I did find it interesting that as part of his interview (https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2023/09/26/buddy-hield-wants-pacers-extension-might-not-start-over-ben-mathurin/70900583007/), Chad Buchanan, was quoted as saying:

“The roster we have is deep,” Buchanan was saying of the entire team, not any position in particular, “(and) training camp is
going to be very important for us. Players have to go out and earn it.”

Only two players are guaranteed to start, Buchanan said: Tyrese Haliburton at point guard, and Myles Turner at center.

He didn't include Benn. I have to believe that Bruce Brown is going to start & Benn is going to play behind him, earning the right to start when he can up his overall game to be competitive with Bruce? (They play amazingly similar games offensively, with Benn being better at getting to the line, Bruce with better overall efficiency, ball skills, & fit. Bruce is better on defense.) I believe Benn's ceiling is higher, but he has to improve in the same ways that Bruce had to improve over the last couple of years. Having Bruce here, if Benn is really willing to work, can only make Benn's game better.

Having said all that, how the Bruce, Benn, Buddy, Aaron, Andrew, Ben, and even Jarace, & Obi, rotation works out will begin to show where we really need to address the roster.

(Sorry for the long post - had an extra cup of coffee this morning & was just free-flow typing. Will try to remember not to do that in future.)

Good to see ideas fleshed out a little. Don't mind long posts. Got a pot of coffee in me too! So...I agree with most of it, though I think Ben will start beside Brown and Obi early on. Rick's not famous for gifting a lot of time to Rooks right off the bat, and Obi, above all others should benefit from playing with Hali. Eventually Jarace could be a great fit with Turner as another defender and secondary playmaker, but maybe not right away. He has to show some offensive threat.
I'd like to see Nesmith signed as a long term back up forward. If he could earn back his college rep as a shooter we may not be able to keep him off the floor.
I'd love Bruce Brown as a long time back up at both wing spots if we can afford to keep him, but that's a problem for both Nesmith and Sheppard who could take those minutes with less cost. So I have a hard time believing Brown will play his second year with us. I see his contract used in a sign and trade for our starting three man. In the meantime he can encourage a championship moxie and rub off some of his defensive chops onto all our young wings.
Assuming the pair of Obi and Jarace can (between them) give us a good 48 minutes we need at the four spot, our biggest need going forward is a long athletic wing to cover that type, which it seems almost every good team has. Hard for me to believe a
wide body like Walker do that full time, but I'd love him to prove me wrong.
All in all we need a consolidation trade, or two. We have too many deserving guys and not quite enough top end talent.
The one thing I don't want out of any trades this year is more long term depth pieces. We need picks and expiring's right up until we can consolidate. If next summer comes around and we can't deal because we have traded Buddy for more guys who can't get on the floor but are not easily movable, that will not be good.

Anthony Edwards

Great friends with Haliburton, and the kind of scoring threat the team needs

What do you folks think of Jrue Holiday?... if he could be obtained on a reasonable deal extension?

JMaster5K wrote:What do you folks think of Jrue Holiday?... if he could be obtained on a reasonable deal extension?

I LOOOOVE Jrue and think he’s one of the only “lead/combo guards” that I would consider adding. He’s not like a Brogdon: he’s completely ego free and team first. He’d be a dynamic second ball handler/distributor to get Haliburton some plays off. He’s an AMAZING multi position defender; he can even switch onto many 4’s in the league. And Rick Carlisle absolutely loves him. He’d fit great next to any combo of Haliburton, Nembhard, Mathurin, and Brown as a 1-3, despite his shorter stature.

I imagine other teams would pay more than we should be. But if we made a package like Buddy/McConnell/Jalen Smith and a first or two? I’d be in. You’d probably have to work hard at sending McConnell to Phoenix for a second or two to re route to Portland. And find somewhere to send Buddy for a second or two. Etc. But I’d be willing to trade out of the 2024 1st round, or deal our extra first in 2024 and a protected 2025 or 2026 1st, etc. I just think that Boston, Miami, LA, etc should all be willing to pay more than that.

What do you see as the timeline? If we're a year or two away from being a year away, I'm not much interested in a trade or a free agent now. Oh, breaking up the backup center logjam would be fine, but we've got two FRPs next summer and I'm not in a hurry to put a new veteran ahead of them. ideally the draft gives us a 3 who comes off the bench. the draft might also give us a 1 making McConnell expendable.

put another way, say we make a run at OG next summer. does landing him make us a top 4 team in the East? if not, why do it.

Scoot McGroot wrote:I LOOOOVE Jrue and think he’s one of the only “lead/combo guards” that I would consider adding. He’s not like a Brogdon: he’s completely ego free and team first. He’d be a dynamic second ball handler/distributor to get Haliburton some plays off. He’s an AMAZING multi position defender; he can even switch onto many 4’s in the league. And Rick Carlisle absolutely loves him. He’d fit great next to any combo of Haliburton, Nembhard, Mathurin, and Brown as a 1-3, despite his shorter stature.

I imagine other teams would pay more than we should be. But if we made a package like Buddy/McConnell/Jalen Smith and a first or two? I’d be in. You’d probably have to work hard at sending McConnell to Phoenix for a second or two to re route to Portland. And find somewhere to send Buddy for a second or two. Etc. But I’d be willing to trade out of the 2024 1st round, or deal our extra first in 2024 and a protected 2025 or 2026 1st, etc. I just think that Boston, Miami, LA, etc should all be willing to pay more than that.

LOL- If there was a +10 for a post, I would have just put one on this. =]

I am right there with you. The 'rumor mill' had him going to Indy 3 years ago as a FA, until Milwaukee stepped in with the trade, and then extension. (There were a couple of Star interviews with he and his wife during that summer while they were in town.) He said in an interview that he wanted to go someplace to call home. That he didn't want to spend his time travelling from team to team contract to contract. He & Lauren already have family & a charity they actively run in Indianapolis,....

Maybe, a longer term, on a more team friendly contract, with some extra up front, and decreasing might get his attention?

He already has a ring. What a mentor he would make for this team. Someone who could teach, and show, and do. Coach likes having 2 ball handlers on the floor at the same time & our plan seems to be to play fast. I can't think of anyone who could play faster next to Hali (Jrue has previously played off-ball as well as point), nor go further to fixing our defensive lapses. The thought of Hali, Holiday, Brown, say Walker (just cause he seems to have the defensive reputation at the moment), and Myles?...... Fast, good defense, more than acceptable shooting.

I know, I'm pipe-dreaming, & that we probably don't have the talent to get him AND keep developing the team to the prime of our current core,... but man,.. what a dream. LOL =]

Wizop wrote:What do you see as the timeline? If we're a year or two away from being a year away, I'm not much interested in a trade or a free agent now. Oh, breaking up the backup center logjam would be fine, but we've got two FRPs next summer and I'm not in a hurry to put a new veteran ahead of them. ideally the draft gives us a 3 who comes off the bench. the draft might also give us a 1 making McConnell expendable.

put another way, say we make a run at OG next summer. does landing him make us a top 4 team in the East? if not, why do it.

You make a good point,... I'm not so sure that a Jrue Holiday wouldn't make us a top 4 team in the east? (if we have Jrue & land OG,.. then yeah,... we are probably there. - LOL) There would have to be some internal growth as well. The only people who can really see, at this point, if the team is at a point where he could be a difference maker are the coaches. I will give you that we haven't seen it yet,.. and it may not be there yet. But,.. he would be one of only a very few players that I would believe could impact the Pacers not just now, or during his immediate contract, but well into the future by his every day approach and commitment to teamwork, culture.

Our only hope to get Jrue would be if Portland highly values 2024 cap room as we can send them multiple expiring contracts and a FRP. The talking heads have us thinking longer term, but if "defense wins championships" . . . I know, that's a football cliche.

1. We need more length. We suck on the glass and still have guards playing forwards. How far can we get with that?
2. We are two years away no matter what we do.
3. Jrue is one of my favorite players! Btw Mathurin said Jrue probably plays the best D on him compared with anybody in the league.
On that note and off topic Ben also said:
a. He's undefeated 1 on 1 against other Pacers.
b. Nembhard can't guard him.
c. He beat Klay Thompson 1 on 1 as well.
d. He may have also said he beat KT in a shooting contest. Not sure I heard that right.
e. McConnell is one of the toughest challenges for him among pacers. Because... he just never stops.
4. As much as I love Jrue he duplicates Nembhard and Brown more than he adds the length and shooting we need (assuming Buddy takes his range elsewhere.
5. Jrue will be gone or washed by the time Hali and Math hit their prime.
6. I'd trade bit pieces and some spare picks for Jrue, but not any young core pieces, and not next years 1st.
Not just to win some meaningless games, keep our youngsters off the floor, and deplete our draft capital. Both in terms of the picks we'd lose, and the remaining one's that would be slightly less valuable.
So reluctantly I'll have to stick to my plan for team building and not bet the farm on one of my favorite players.
If this was two years from now, and our core was experienced, and we had a lengthy 3, and some of our best players were not already similar in size and position...he'd be a miracle get.
Alas that's too many what if's for me.
If we outbid everyone else, we've paid too much. I got to think he's a better fit elsewhere.

Solid wrote:1. We need more length. We suck on the glass and still have guards playing forwards. How far can we get with that?
2. We are two years away no matter what we do.
3. Jrue is one of my favorite players! Btw Mathurin said Jrue probably plays the best D on him compared with anybody in the league.
On that note and off topic Ben also said:
a. He's undefeated 1 on 1 against other Pacers.
b. Nembhard can't guard him.
c. He beat Klay Thompson 1 on 1 as well.
d. He may have also said he beat KT in a shooting contest. Not sure I heard that right.
e. McConnell is one of the toughest challenges for him among pacers. Because... he just never stops.
4. As much as I love Jrue he duplicates Nembhard and Brown more than he adds the length and shooting we need (assuming Buddy takes his range elsewhere.
5. Jrue will be gone or washed by the time Hali and Math hit their prime.
6. I'd trade bit pieces and some spare pics for Jrue, but not any young core pieces. Not just to win some meaningless games, keep our youngsters off the floor, and deplete our draft capital. Both in terms of the picks we'd lose, and the remaining one's that would be slightly less valuable.
So reluctantly I'll have to stick to my plan for team building and not bet the farm on one of my favorite players.
If this was two years from now, and our core was experienced, and we had a lengthy 3, and some of our best players were not already similar in size and position...he'd be a miracle get.
Alas that's too many what if's for me.
If we outbid everyone else, we've paid too much. I got to think he's a better fit elsewhere.

LOL - Brilliantly said! =]

As much as I would love him here,... reality sets in,.. what it would actually cost to get him would be far more than his value to the Pacers at this point. To us,.. he could[i][i][/i][/i] be a 28 - 30 mill player,.. but to an immediate contender, he's already on a fair contract at what 36.8 Mill (that could go as high as 39). That is after the cost to acquire him. Still,... It never hurts to dream,.. well,.. unless you toss and turn in your sleep, fall outta bed, and break something,.. then it could hurt to dream,.. but that's not so likely,... again,... =/