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I do like Dunn. He’s an absolute defensive beast. I think his complete lack of offensive ability, specifically his seeming unwillingness to even try to shoot much of the time, will make it infinitely tough for him to carve out a long term spot in rotations in the nba.

Scoot McGroot wrote:I do like Dunn. He’s an absolute defensive beast. I think his complete lack of offensive ability, specifically his seeming unwillingness to even try to shoot much of the time, will make it infinitely tough for him to carve out a long term spot in rotations in the nba.

Feels like KBrown2.0. but he may be the type of wing available around our picks.

Wizop wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:I do like Dunn. He’s an absolute defensive beast. I think his complete lack of offensive ability, specifically his seeming unwillingness to even try to shoot much of the time, will make it infinitely tough for him to carve out a long term spot in rotations in the nba.

Feels like KBrown2.0. but he may be the type of wing available around our picks.

I don't get the feeling Dunn is a KBrown2.0. Could be just me, but I don't think KBrown has anywhere near the power or Physicality that Dunn already brings. I do really like Dunn. If the numbers from last season are accurate, he's a Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Scottie Barnes, level of athlete, who likes to do all the role-player dirty work that gets wins. (Yeah,.. I am kinda high on him - LOL).

I think he's one of those guys that can develop enough offense to make defenses play him honestly. (But it might take a season and a bit to get there.) In the runner, dunkers spot, at full speed, with Ty setting the table,.. he could be lethal. Kinda like a pure defense OB1. He is currently (according to tankathon stats) hitting 63% from 2, mostly on his power, and his explosive cuts & movement at the rim.

Having said that,.. that still only like 6-7 attempts per game. Like Scoot said, he just doesn't even look to shoot. Doesn't feel like he avoids it, but just isn't even aware that there is an 'offensive' side of the ball. He doesn't do much as a connector at Virginia, but when he does, his reads & creativity are pretty good. It just doesn't seem like he's ever really paid attention to that side of the game?

Full article: https://www.nba.com/news/bleacher-report-5-under-the-radar-prospects-to-know

Excerpt:

Ryan Dunn

Team: Virginia

Size: 6-foot-8, 216 lbs

Age: 20

Notable early numbers: 85.7% at the rim, 7.1 steal percentage, 11.6 block percentage

Dunn is trending toward outlier status with defensive potential that could create enough value to offset his scoring limitations.

After playing just 12.9 minutes last year, he’s building a reputation as the most impactful non-center defender in the country, currently ranked No. 2 nationally in defensive box plus-minus, No. 4 in defensive win shares and No. 6 in steal percentage. He’s even blocking 2.5 shots per game with mostly a wing’s body, though NBA coaches willing to think out of the box could envision him playing stretches as a small-ball 5.

The eye test backs up the numbers. Scouts love how many different ways he can influence possessions with either ball pressure, court coverage, reaction time or playmaking.

According to Synergy Sports, opponents are shooting 3-of-27 on Dunn when he’s considered the primary defender. Nobody has yet to convert a field goal on him at the rim.

Scouts are starting to see a potential defensive difference-maker for the next level, particularly in ball-screen situations, where he’s shown an outrageous mix of foot speed to hedge and awareness/speed to recover back to roll men and contest around the basket.

Offensively, despite showing little dribble creativity, he’s still giving Virginia 10.3 points per game, mostly by tapping into his explosiveness for play-finishing off transition, cuts, rolls and putbacks.

Scouts still want to see some signs of shooting potential, even if the most realistic, hopeful outcome will be for Dunn to reach Herb Jones’ level of capability. Just posing a threat to hit a catch-and-shoot three will affect spacing, as we’ve already seen instances of opposing defenses leaving Dunn open to help elsewhere.

The fact that he’s taking twice as many threes per 40 minutes (3.4, up from 1.6) is encouraging, as is his decent start from the free-throw line (69%). Regardless, the combination of age (20), 6’8″ size, special athleticism and elite defense should ultimately buy Dunn extra time with scouts.

https://www.streakingthelawn.com/2023/4/10/23675841/uva-basketball-virginia-cavaliers-virginia-basketball-ryan-dunn-defense-tony-bennett

https://www.streakingthelawn.com/2023/10/18/23919452/virginia-cavaliers-uva-basketball-ryan-dunn-nba-draft-board-virginia-basketball

NBAdraft.net hast he Pacers taking Bobby Klintman and Zach Edey in the 2nd round. I'd be ok with that. I'd like to see Edey with the Pacers.

basketballwacko2 wrote:NBAdraft.net hast he Pacers taking Bobby Klintman and Zach Edey in the 2nd round. I'd be ok with that. I'd like to see Edey with the Pacers.

Is Klintman the guy we liked last year who pulled out of the draft?

Wizop wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:NBAdraft.net hast he Pacers taking Bobby Klintman and Zach Edey in the 2nd round. I'd be ok with that. I'd like to see Edey with the Pacers.

Is Klintman the guy we liked last year who pulled out of the draft?

Yeah supposed to have been promised to pick him at #26. This team needs some size or they need Jalen Smith to step up and stay healthy. PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

basketballwacko2 wrote:

Wizop wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:NBAdraft.net hast he Pacers taking Bobby Klintman and Zach Edey in the 2nd round. I'd be ok with that. I'd like to see Edey with the Pacers.

Is Klintman the guy we liked last year who pulled out of the draft?

Yeah supposed to have been promised to pick him at #26. This team needs some size or they need Jalen Smith to step up and stay healthy. PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

Yeah,.. I'm not so high on Klintman. He's long. He has good ball skill, but he plays like a SF/G. He lacks physicality. He doesn't seem to rebound very well, nor defend very well. He's very fluid, which makes him good at jumping passes, but I just don't see him fitting as a defense first 4? (could just be me?) If he's not a 4, then, yeah he's long, but he's in competition with everyone else we have at the 3?

The more I read, the better I feel about this draft. It is a 'down draft' compared to most (specifically, 2023, 2025-as projected, & 2026-as projected). There aren't any draftees that project to generational talents that you build a team around, but there are a number of players that seem like they could become key role players, either as starters or off the bench, on almost any team (contender to lottery)? It does seem, even this far out, that fit is going to be a huge key in this draft? You aren't going to make major changes to how you play to incorporate anyone in this draft, so you need to find players that can compete for time in the existing team structure & system.

But having said that, I feel like there are going to be a few selections that definitely 'raise the floor' for their teams, and do impact winning. I hope, that the narrative on this draft causes more of the potential draftees to measure, test, & compete at the combine. People who measure both as expected or better than expected should have a greater impact on their draft position, and help us get a better gauge on who might really fit or help the Pacers. =]

JMaster5K wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:

Wizop wrote:
Is Klintman the guy we liked last year who pulled out of the draft?

Yeah supposed to have been promised to pick him at #26. This team needs some size or they need Jalen Smith to step up and stay healthy. PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

Yeah,.. I'm not so high on Klintman. He's long. He has good ball skill, but he plays like a SF/G. He lacks physicality. He doesn't seem to rebound very well, nor defend very well. He's very fluid, which makes him good at jumping passes, but I just don't see him fitting as a defense first 4? (could just be me?) If he's not a 4, then, yeah he's long, but he's in competition with everyone else we have at the 3?

The more I read, the better I feel about this draft. It is a 'down draft' compared to most (specifically, 2023, 2025-as projected, & 2026-as projected). There aren't any draftees that project to generational talents that you build a team around, but there are a number of players that seem like they could become key role players, either as starters or off the bench, on almost any team (contender to lottery)? It does seem, even this far out, that fit is going to be a huge key in this draft? You aren't going to make major changes to how you play to incorporate anyone in this draft, so you need to find players that can compete for time in the existing team structure & system.

But having said that, I feel like there are going to be a few selections that definitely 'raise the floor' for their teams, and do impact winning. I hope, that the narrative on this draft causes more of the potential draftees to measure, test, & compete at the combine. People who measure both as expected or better than expected should have a greater impact on their draft position, and help us get a better gauge on who might really fit or help the Pacers. =]

I think you’re going to see quite a few guys get some long careers out of this draft, but I think it’s missing any players that are really projectable to either star status, or even top 2-3 starter on a team. Basically, missing A and B tier draftable prospects, but has quite a few draftable C level prospects? Fit will matter GREATLY, as you said.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Yeah supposed to have been promised to pick him at #26. This team needs some size or they need Jalen Smith to step up and stay healthy. PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

Yeah,.. I'm not so high on Klintman. He's long. He has good ball skill, but he plays like a SF/G. He lacks physicality. He doesn't seem to rebound very well, nor defend very well. He's very fluid, which makes him good at jumping passes, but I just don't see him fitting as a defense first 4? (could just be me?) If he's not a 4, then, yeah he's long, but he's in competition with everyone else we have at the 3?

The more I read, the better I feel about this draft. It is a 'down draft' compared to most (specifically, 2023, 2025-as projected, & 2026-as projected). There aren't any draftees that project to generational talents that you build a team around, but there are a number of players that seem like they could become key role players, either as starters or off the bench, on almost any team (contender to lottery)? It does seem, even this far out, that fit is going to be a huge key in this draft? You aren't going to make major changes to how you play to incorporate anyone in this draft, so you need to find players that can compete for time in the existing team structure & system.

But having said that, I feel like there are going to be a few selections that definitely 'raise the floor' for their teams, and do impact winning. I hope, that the narrative on this draft causes more of the potential draftees to measure, test, & compete at the combine. People who measure both as expected or better than expected should have a greater impact on their draft position, and help us get a better gauge on who might really fit or help the Pacers. =]

I think you’re going to see quite a few guys get some long careers out of this draft, but I think it’s missing any players that are really projectable to either star status, or even top 2-3 starter on a team. Basically, missing A and B tier draftable prospects, but has quite a few draftable C level prospects? Fit will matter GREATLY, as you said.

LOL - thank you Scoot,.. for taking what I said in 3 paragraphs & saying it more clearly in 1 !! LOLOL =]

Scoot McGroot wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

I think you’re going to see quite a few guys get some long careers out of this draft, but I think it’s missing any players that are really projectable to either star status, or even top 2-3 starter on a team. Basically, missing A and B tier draftable prospects, but has quite a few draftable C level prospects? Fit will matter GREATLY, as you said.

I'm beginning to think this draft could actually be really good for the Pacers. There seem to be a number of role players, that know and play their role, at a starter or near starter level. Like Scoot said 'C tier' players that could start or be near starters on a good NBA club. We stand a good chance of getting a player or players that could be a significant part of the rotation.

We've mentioned Dunn & Klintman. There's Matas Buzelis, Izan Almansa, Tyler Smith, even maybe Yves Missi, who, depending on how they actually test, could all play the 4 with some defensive pedigree. None of them look like they might make another all star, but all of them (if the current projections are true) could become a starter level 4 with good defense that could propel the Pacers to a higher floor and more wins?

There are also a number of perimeter defenders that look like they could be real, key cogs in a contending team.

What do you guys think of the potential for the Pacers in the 2024 draft? Anyone you've seen that has caught your attention?

JMaster5K wrote:What do you guys think of the potential for the Pacers in the 2024 draft? Anyone you've seen that has caught your attention?

I've not watched anyone but IU and Butler yet. the early mocks seem loaded with international players.

I'm looking for more of a 3 than a 4 - think a much taller Nesmith. I think we can go another year with the Toppin, Stix, Walker experiment at 4 unless the draft (or free agency) gives us a 4.

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:What do you guys think of the potential for the Pacers in the 2024 draft? Anyone you've seen that has caught your attention?

I've not watched anyone but IU and Butler yet. the early mocks seem loaded with international players.

I'm looking for more of a 3 than a 4 - think a much taller Nesmith. I think we can go another year with the Toppin, Stix, Walker experiment at 4 unless the draft (or free agency) gives us a 4.

I certainly wouldn’t assume that either of Toppin or Stix will be back. Obi hasn’t yet proven he should get a qualifying offer, and Stix has been playing well enough to opt out and enter unrestricted free agency.

Scoot McGroot wrote:I certainly wouldn’t assume that either of Toppin or Stix will be back. Obi hasn’t yet proven he should get a qualifying offer, and Stix has been playing well enough to opt out and enter unrestricted free agency.

I agree it is too early to assume anything. I'd offer Stix a similar contract to Nesmith's, but it's fair to question whether the market will be higher still. as for Toppin, he's shown flashes but hasn't been in the running for the most improved player award as many hoped he would be. however, Walker hasn't pushed him for minutes as we also expected.

as I've previously written, I've become convinced that the answer to BPA vs. Need is ranking prospects in tiers. we certainly shouldn't take a tier 4 SF if a tier 3 PF is still on the board.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:What do you guys think of the potential for the Pacers in the 2024 draft? Anyone you've seen that has caught your attention?

I've not watched anyone but IU and Butler yet. the early mocks seem loaded with international players.

I'm looking for more of a 3 than a 4 - think a much taller Nesmith. I think we can go another year with the Toppin, Stix, Walker experiment at 4 unless the draft (or free agency) gives us a 4.

I certainly wouldn’t assume that either of Toppin or Stix will be back. Obi hasn’t yet proven he should get a qualifying offer, and Stix has been playing well enough to opt out and enter unrestricted free agency.

Stix has shown that the extra strength really has made a difference. His screening actions & position at the rim are far improved over last year, without losing any of his movement or verticality. He's shown that he can play both stretch and full 5 for most teams. There have been games where, IMHO, he's been our best 5. I would be surprised if he didn't opt out. If he does opt out, someone is going to pay him more than expected.

If he does stay 1 more year, I would be truly thankful! But, there are too many teams (Raptors, Hawks, Knicks, Wizards, Nets, Heat, Warriors, etc) that could use a starter, role-player, 2-way, inside-out 5, like Stix. He really does just 'fit' too many places.

No matter what happens,... going to be happy for him. After all the stuff in Phoenix, to come here & work like he has, wish him the best, no matter what the future holds.

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:What do you guys think of the potential for the Pacers in the 2024 draft? Anyone you've seen that has caught your attention?

I've not watched anyone but IU and Butler yet. the early mocks seem loaded with international players.

I'm looking for more of a 3 than a 4 - think a much taller Nesmith. I think we can go another year with the Toppin, Stix, Walker experiment at 4 unless the draft (or free agency) gives us a 4.

After what he's shown in the G League, and his limited stretches this year, particularly how Coach has used him, I think Walker is going to be future at the 3. He's certainly shown he's got the quickness & movement skills to defend the 3. His shot seems to be coming around. It would also explain all the opportunities to work on ball handling & passing?

But,.. it wouldn't be the first time I was completely wrong,... today. 8/

JMaster5K wrote:I think Walker is going to be future at the 3. He's certainly shown he's got the quickness & movement skills to defend the 3. His shot seems to be coming around. It would also explain all the opportunities to work on ball handling & passing?

his passing, and not his defense, has turned out to be his most NBA ready skill. if he's ready to play some backup 3, I can make a case for trading Buddy.

Wizop wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:I think Walker is going to be future at the 3. He's certainly shown he's got the quickness & movement skills to defend the 3. His shot seems to be coming around. It would also explain all the opportunities to work on ball handling & passing?

his passing, and not his defense, has turned out to be his most NBA ready skill. if he's ready to play some backup 3, I can make a case for trading Buddy.

Yup,.. agreed. His actual defense was almost certainly going to be an issue in the first year. Yeah,.. there was a lot of chatter about his defense during and after the draft. CC did a piece (that I think is still on her Patreon), this summer about her expectations for his fit with the Pacers. If I remember correctly, she said that his learning curve for the Pacer type of defense was going to be steep, but that he brought the tools to be special. He played 'hedge' at Houston, which didn't call for much switching or reading the movement of the offense. He also generally, played the low man, or 5 spot, in Houston's D.

I think she was the first to point out, that to expect him to make a difference on defense in more than spot minutes or limited single matchup assignments, with the changes he needed to learn, was way too much to expect. From what I saw during the G League showcase, IMHO, he seems further along than I generally expected? (After her analysis reset my expectations.) =}

There was also a bit of skepticism that his shot could improve enough for him to see real court time. So far, he seems to be ahead of expectations there as well? (at least against G League competition)

I'm generally bullish on Walker (well,.. OK,. NOT bullish, as I would prefer him here to Chicago.... 8/ ) With his potential, Mathurin making strides, Sheppard showing he fits at the NBA level, having Nembhard & Nesmith carry over from last year,... I think our SG/SF rotation is pretty deep. A LOT of questions still, but hopefully, a few answers already here, we just haven't seen it yet? (that doesn't even consider the possibility of Bruce B, or Buddy staying around?)

With Myles contract up after next season; OB1's becoming a RFA after this season; Stix with a player option for next season, that could make him a UFA after this season; and I-Jax rookie contract up after next season, making him a RFA if he isn't extended, It feels like our bigs could end up in a transition?

As a couple of people have pointed out, OB1 hasn't quite become the offensive juggernaut that many expected. I-Jax has gotten better all season, this season, but hasn't made a case for being a starting 4. Stix has probably been our best true '4' for most double big matchups, but definitely not all matchups. But, if we have him playing real minutes with the starting unit, we lose his best minutes as the primary 5 with the second unit. Which leaves us with Nesmith, playing out of position as our best, consistent 4. Think no matter what happens, we have to address the 4, at some point - when it makes sense to do so, as, I believe, the next focus for the roster?

Of course,.. I could be completely wrong! LOL, or their might not be anyone we could trade for/sign/draft at the 4 that would have a reasonable cost and make an impact for us? We could still be in the 'take the best player available at any position for our team' and figure the rest out later mode. LOL =]

NBA big board mock 1.0 has us taking Dunn.

basketballwacko2 wrote:

Wizop wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:NBAdraft.net hast he Pacers taking Bobby Klintman and Zach Edey in the 2nd round. I'd be ok with that. I'd like to see Edey with the Pacers.

Is Klintman the guy we liked last year who pulled out of the draft?

Yeah supposed to have been promised to pick him at #26. This team needs some size or they need Jalen Smith to step up and stay healthy. PF is a problem and I'm no feeling it for Toppin all that much.

I saw someone compare Klintman to Atlanta's Jalen Johnson recently. And i cant think of a better fit for the Pacers. Essp when we're not picking in the lottery.

That said, i wouldnt be surprised if he creeps up into the lottery by the draft.