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A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?...

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A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?... 

Post#1 » by JMaster5K » Mon Jul 1, 2024 6:12 pm

OK,... so maybe this isn't possible?... idk?....

Take Washington this year as an example,.... Currently Spotrac shows them with 146,717,537 in active cap & dead cap. Suppose they sign their 3 draft picks,... which brings them up to $165,243,617. They are over the cap, but plan to resign Tyus Jones. They have his Bird rights,... so they can. They don't want to go over the tax threshold,... so they sign him to $5,500,000 for this year. This puts them under the tax by $70,383.

But,.. to sign him to this amount,.. they agree the same incentive package as Kyle Kuzma, which results in $3,000,000 in unlikely incentives.... bringing their total as a team in unlikely incentives to $9,750,000.

As a result,.. they are under the tax threshold,.. but over the first tax apron. ?? Is this actually possible? If so,.. which would apply? would they be an over the cap, but non-taxpaying team, or an over the first apron team?

It could get even more outlandish?.... If a team, with 15 players,.. who all have a $4m incentive for 'making the NBA finals',.. so $60M between their cap number and their tax apron number,... they could theoretically be an 'under the cap', cap space team,.. and a team over the 2nd apron at the same time. :o :o :dontknow: :confused:
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Re: A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?... 

Post#2 » by MNPacersfan » Mon Jul 1, 2024 6:30 pm

Found this in an old John Hollinger article:
"Each player has a “cap number” that is usually, but not always, the same as the player’s salary plus any “likely to be earned” incentives for that year. Among the things that aren’t included in the salary cap number are the players’ incentive bonuses for the year that are considered to be unlikely. However, those bonuses count for the purposes of the apron."

Also found that an incentive is "unlikely" unless the player would have earned that incentive in a prior season.* So an apron calculation is made in addition to the cap calculation... So yeah. I didn't realize this before.

*My contract includes an incentive for All-NBA. Last year I was not all NBA so the incentive is not included on the cap calc. This year I make All-NBA (which would be incredible at my age) so the incentive is added to my cap hit in next year's calculation.
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Re: A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?... 

Post#3 » by JMaster5K » Mon Jul 1, 2024 6:49 pm

I reread the apron sections of the CBA,... If they are enforced as written,... then they are all actually independent.

The Salary cap is based on one set of calculations. The tax threshold is based on another set of calculations (though 2 of those turn out to be the same value) & controls the tax, and certain team-building restrictions. The Aprons are based on a third set of calculation, independent of the other 2.

The language in the CBA says,.. (paraphrasing),.. if your apron calculation goes over the apron target,.. then these transactions are forbidden to the team, and you have these penalties.

So it's seems to be completely possible,.. that you could have a cap-space team, that is over the 2nd apron,... and the 2nd apron restrictions would apply,... even if the cap, tax threshold restrictions & payments did not!

Which would seem to really stymie incentive based contracts,... as they could cause you to be restricted, even if your cap numbers didn't, and you didn't owe any tax?
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Re: A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?... 

Post#4 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jul 1, 2024 6:52 pm

All incentives count against the apron, whether likely or unlikely, specifically in cases like this. If Washington is hard capped at the first apron, the league will void any transactions that would take them over that hard cap, and require the team to resubmit them in a manner that is legal within the CBA requirements.

It is weird. A team can be under the tax, but over the apron. Rare, but very possible.
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Re: A conundrum for Scoot & the other Capologists?... 

Post#5 » by JMaster5K » Mon Jul 1, 2024 7:13 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:All incentives count against the apron, whether likely or unlikely, specifically in cases like this. If Washington is hard capped at the first apron, the league will void any transactions that would take them over that hard cap, and require the team to resubmit them in a manner that is legal within the CBA requirements.

It is weird. A team can be under the tax, but over the apron. Rare, but very possible.


The Wizards are the practical application of this:

Right now,.. there 1st apron number & their Tax threshold number are only $568,000 apart. If they took anyone in trade, or signed someone with $600K in unlikely incentives,... their 1st apron number would actually be lower than their tax threshold number. They would become a 1st apron restricted team without having to pay any tax.

That's what got me thinkin about it, anyway,...

That makes for a very tight window if you are making trades right around the tax threshold,... :o

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