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We used to have a thread like this for college basketball and nba draft prospects but since the Pacers aren't picking high in the draft anymore, we have gone away from it. But today while it was snowing outside, i watched the IU game and not sure whos interested but had some thoughts on todays game and also on the season so far.

-Malik Reneau i thought plays too soft around the rim. Wish he had some intensity like he did on a play later in the game, which is the photo i posted.

-Myles Rice is a weird player to figure out. Scored 2 points vs Providence, comes back to score 17 and 19, then scores 2 points vs Minnesota, then scores 20 vs Wisconsin and today finished with 4, but was stuck on 2 for a long time. Inconsistent as it gets.

-I really like Kanaan Carlyle, awesome defender, good at driving in, good passer, good ball handle, but i wish his 3PT shooting was better, that would really make him go next step.

-To me, IU is a flawed team. They get on runs and look fantastic but when they are in a rut, and they get in a rut in every game, including today vs a team like Chattanooga, their offense becomes vert stagnant with no hopes of getting any good looks. Its insane. Even in the game vs Wisconsin, they started the game looking like they've never practiced together before, Wisconsin opened to a 8-0 lead, then IU plays as good or better then Wisconsin til about the final 5-6 minutes when they couldn't get any good looks and stopped scoring.

-Bryson Tucker is a fantastic talent. He's probably my favorite player to watch on this team, but you can tell he's raw. Wish he returns for a 2nd year to really become a great player but we all know how college is nowadays, i think he'll be a one-n-done.

Grang33r wrote:Even in the game vs Wisconsin

IU has not played Wisconsin this year.

Tom White wrote:

Grang33r wrote:Even in the game vs Wisconsin

IU has not played Wisconsin this year.

My bad, meant Nebraska. I dont know why but ive made that mistake several times now. lol

Watching Butler Georgetown. Hoya's Sorber projected in the 20s. Just took a hit to the nose. He looks good.

Assuming Scoot is right and OBI is the most likely to be traded to facility Turner's next contract, who should we be watching in March Madness. I still like Sorber but Georgetown didn't make it and he's got an injured foot anyway.

Wolf? Is he athletic enough?

Broome? haven't seen him yet.

an international player not in the Dance?

Wizop wrote:Assuming Scoot is right and OBI is the most likely to be traded to facility Turner's next contract, who should we be watching in March Madness. I still like Sorber but Georgetown didn't make it and he's got an injured foot anyway.

Wolf? Is he athletic enough?

Broome? haven't seen him yet.

an international player not in the Dance?

Auburn - Broome,.. for me he is a 2nd rounder,... strong,..strictly at the rim player (though he is shooting 3's this year), not really long, not really athletic

Marquette - Kam Jones, plus athlete, not elite. Good passer - not great,.. good ball handler, low TO's, not a good shooter. Defense - ok?

Oregon - Kwame Evans - probably for next year,.. was a pre-season, mock lottery guy,.. but has only managed 16 mpg this year. Raw 6'9" SF,... who's floor skills are sloppy & hasn't really developed a shot,.. but by most accounts is an NBA athlete.

Arizona - Carter Bryant,... supposed to be an NBA athlete, but cant tell against their competition,.. true CF, true fresh, 6'8" 220, long arms, better rebounder on team, shoots 37% from 3, but has only played 18 mpg. Raw, but most NBA potential on team.

Illinois - Kasparas Jakucionis - EU player, good experience in EU as develop prospect, PG, way too many TO's,.. not good enough shooting, (though 84% FT) really good size for a G, but he & the next 2 powered ILL all year, to a much better year than expected - FR
- Will Riley - FR - Wing, athletic, really nice handle & floor game for a 6'8" wing - thin 190#, again,. not an NBA efficient shot, 70%+ FT shooter, but less than 33% -3 - true F, Canadian. Is he long enough & strong enough to play wing in NBA? can he get there?

Mich St - you guys probably know better than I,.. but Jeremy Fears, Jase Richardson have been getting headlines all year. are they big enough, athletic enough?... they can both shoot & play Fears - PG, Jase - SG/CG - both Fresh.
-worth watching Xavier Booker, 7' from Indy. He been getting talk for 2 years (So), that he a real NBA athlete, has skills, but just can't put his game together? not tough enough?.. idk, not getting much PT from Izzo?

Bryant - Earl Timberlake was a big time recruit from DC a few years ago (Sr now),.. bounced around a bit, but 6'6, 220 with excellent guard skills,... again athletic? game progressed enough? Too old? - probably a UDFA at best,... but could be a G league guy that starts gettin 10 days in a couple of years?

Duke - ok,.. just watch,. too many to name & the game should be good?

American - no prospects,.. but SR Matt Rodgers is 6'9" 220 & shoots 40% from 3. No,.. he isn't related to Steve Rodgers,... and he doesn't use the nickname Captain America,... but boy,. he really should!

UConn - both Liam McNeely, and Alex Karaban look like they could be drafted, and have legit shots to grow into rotation players. McNeely probably higher than Karaban,.. neither of them higher than the mid-first?

BYU - Egor Demin, another EU,.. legit G, at 6'9", too may TO's, but a Fresh, good enough athlete? game translate?
- Kanon Catchings, not this year,.. only getting like 16 mpg, but an Indy kid, real NBA athlete, but does he have the work ethic & humility to become something?

Xavier - Dailyn Swain was on radars a few years ago,.. supposed to be a good athlete, plays G for X at 6'8" 220 & doesn't look out of place, but has no range.
- Ryan Conwell, another Indy boy,.. can really shoot! not likely to be a prospect, but in the NCAA could actually shoot X into a couple of games.

Maryland - Derrick Queen.

Gonzaga - Ryan Nembhard,.. just because he's a fun player to watch! not really a prospect, too small, but could be a TJ in a couple of years? and he can shoot, very nice form.

Tenn - Felix Okpara - JR from Nigeria, 6'11" 230#, a + level NBA athlete, but he played better last year. Some real potential, but real holes in his game as well. May be running out of time to show he has enough to be developed? - 2nd at best

Florida - Alex Condon,.. another that fell off draft radars? 6'11" 230#, supposed to be an NBA athlete, good game for a big, but hasn't developed a shot outside of 15'.

Creighton - Kalkbrenner, Huge,.. but not as slow footed as you would think, in the box fluid,..ok rebounder, ok shot blocker, rim scorer,.. better post passer than he's generally shown, I've got him solidly in the 2nd rnd.

Baylor - yes,. Edgecombe will be LONG gone by the time we draft,.. but he has such a fun game,.. had to mention him.

Colorado ST - Nique Clifford,.. 6'6" solid 200, legit NBA athlete, leads team in every category but blocks (2nd),.. and can shoot 39.8% - 3. Most mocks have him in the early 2nd,.. but if he has a coming out party in the tournament, could go into the first. Sr.

Michigan - Wolf,.. Goldin has been getting more min at C,.. and is the better scorer, but Wolf has the better all around game. better rebounder, passer, steals guy,.. 7'0", 250 (probably more like 240?) doesn't look out of place as a college 4. Much more fluid game than expected, & better athlete than expected. Good enough? He's a 5 in the NBA, but does have enough to stay there? Is he Scott Foster athletic? or is he just not athletic enough to make it as a back up?

Texas Tech - JT Toppin - no relation - but a very similar player. does he have the length & can he defend in the NBA?

Montana - Malik Moore - supposed to be a shooters, shooter. Athletic? average size for a SG.

Kansas - didn't get much press this year,. but could really make some noise,. SR lead team,.. Dickinson - C - Slow... slower than Edey,.. doesn't have the fluidity of Clingan,.. but big. - 2nd?
- watching to see if Flory Bidunga gets any play. Indiana guy from Terre Haute, that originally hailed from the Congo. Definite NBA athlete, dominated Indiana preps,.. but not to the extent of a Glenn Robinson. Very skilled, but raw IQ. Will need a year or two.

Oklahoma - Jeremy Fears - probably gone before we draft, good athlete, +,.. elite? probably not. Good defender,.. too many TO's and needs to work on his shot.

Georgia - Asa Newell,.. think a modern version of Derrick McKey with the chance for a jump shot. - might be gone by the time we draft, but has been dropping a little bit. Small chance he's still there around 20?

San Diego St - Myles Byrd - 6'7" 190# guard, who excels at defense. Legit NBA athlete, already an NBA level defender, but needs help with his jumpshot. Think bigger Jalen Suggs (when he came into the league not now),... with even more work to do on his shot.

St.Mary's - Marciulionis - not on draft radar,.. but he plays like his dad. Probably not an NBA athlete, but could live in the G league for years.

Arkansas - Adou Thiero - CF - 6'8" 220,.. haven't seen him against the good competition, but is supposed to be a legit, + NBA athlete,.. is he long enough? Good defender,.. good all around game,.. But needs a LOT of work on his shot. one of those guys that does the dirty work, & fades into the background,. until you read the box score. Should be available from around the Pacers pick to first 4 of the second?
-Boogie Fland - fast, fluid, good ball handler, good shooter,.. is he too small? Can he handle the physicality?

Alabama - Mark Sears,.. looked more like a prospect a couple of years ago.
- Grant Nelson, under the radar prospect,... was the poster boy from the NCAA 2 or 3 years ago at SD, when they made the run,. transferred to Bama. Hasn't had the opportunities since. Was at the combine 2 years ago. definite NBA athlete. not long, but very athletic. Now listed at 6'11" 230#,.. and he is a Sr. Needs work on his shot. Not in any mocks,.. but I could see him going in the 2nd. Very much a Scott Foster type.

Sorry,... but there's a lot of players & games I'd love to watch! 8/

I wouldn't be afraid to take the younger Nembhard brother in the 2nd or to give him an Exhibit 10 if he's undrafted.

Game Theory podcast has has taking European center Beringer (Bear-en-jay). long. athletic. no shot. sounds like iJax.

but have with filled our backup center positions already? will the re-sign Turner without paying tax trade open up a roster spot at 3 or 4? even so I can make a case for elevating Freeman and trading our 2025 pick for one in 2026.

Wizop wrote:Game Theory podcast has has taking European center Beringer (Bear-en-jay). long. athletic. no shot. sounds like iJax.

but have with filled our backup center positions already? will the re-sign Turner without paying tax trade open up a roster spot at 3 or 4? even so I can make a case for elevating Freeman and trading our 2025 pick for one in 2026.

NDADraftRoom on Beringer

France – HT: 6-10 – WT: 200 – WING: NA – Int.06 – An intriguing upside prospect with NBA level tools but will take some time to develop. Beringer has a chance to be a really good defender thanks to his awesome athleticism and great frame. For a team willing to be patient he could pay off big a few years down the road. 18 years old. He's now supposedly up around 220#?

-------------

He played Center for the French 18U team, so they list him as a center, but the scouts I've read have said he looks much more like a 4? Has the athleticism & mobility to guard 2-5 (including big wings), and is already showing an ability to block shots & defend the rim, even from the weakside help location. He supposedly has already started to defend the P&R. On offense,.. he can play the P&R as a screener,... but does need to work on his shot.

He is a bit like I-Jax,... but a version of I-Jax that, at least to scouts so far, seems to be comfortable out on the floor as well as playing at the rim. Will he get strong enough to play minutes at the actual 5 in NBA? who knows,.. he's 18,.. he could still grow 2 inches & it wouldn't surprise anyone?.... Most mocks that include him, have him in the first round on potential, but say he's gonna need a couple of years to develop.

Kinda fits with the timeline behind Pascal?...

Wizop wrote:Game Theory podcast has has taking European center Beringer (Bear-en-jay). long. athletic. no shot. sounds like iJax.

but have with filled our backup center positions already? will the re-sign Turner without paying tax trade open up a roster spot at 3 or 4? even so I can make a case for elevating Freeman and trading our 2025 pick for one in 2026.

Watched some highlights of this guy. Sign me up.
Still 18, has only been playing BB for thre years. Crazy long, moves well, excellent hands.
Looks like a smoother athlete than IJax. Could see him playing the 4.

Hoopshype does an aggregate mock draft every draft cycle by looking at 10 of the more widely regarded mocks, assigning points, then coming up with an average 'position' for each potential draftee. They also include comments, more recent analysis, and other information. They update this draft a number of times throughout the draft cycle. Below is version 4.0 of the 2025 aggregate mock. Might help identify some specific targets for some of us.

Enjoy !

https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2025-nba-mock-draft-4-0-stock-status-before-march-madness/

?s=46&t=9ViPZrC6T8ng6kcZke0I5g

I’m guessing late second round pick for the Mad Ants. Will not be drafted to be 1 of 15 Pacer players next season. I’ve seen a lot of Pacer fans say that at 6 ft. he’s 4” shorter than Andrew and that could be a liability in the big leagues.

From Evan Sidery:

The impact of NIL for NBA Draft prospects, especially ones projected in the late-first round, is starting to show.

Texas Tech’s JT Toppin is returning to school earning $4+ million next year, per @MattNorlander.

Toppin will be making similar money as a 2025 lottery pick.

IMHO:
This is one of the main reasons I don’t watch college basketball anymore. They broke what was going good by paying the players wayyy too much money. Also the transfer portal is another mistake which offers opportunity for several players to leave and the team has to be rebuilt possibly yearly due to programs offering cash to lure players to their universities. Almost like building super teams in college.

They’ve made it hard to cheer for a team when each year nobody knows what the team will look like. I feel sorry for the fans that are ticket holders and alumni.

Pacers Forever wrote:From Evan Sidery:

The impact of NIL for NBA Draft prospects, especially ones projected in the late-first round, is starting to show.

Texas Tech’s JT Toppin is returning to school earning $4+ million next year, per @MattNorlander.

Toppin will be making similar money as a 2025 lottery pick.

IMHO:
This is one of the main reasons I don’t watch college basketball anymore. They broke what was going good by paying the players wayyy too much money. Also the transfer portal is another mistake which offers opportunity for several players to leave and the team has to be rebuilt possibly yearly due to programs offering cash to lure players to their universities. Almost like building super teams in college.

They’ve made it hard to cheer for a team when each year nobody knows what the team will look like. I feel sorry for the fans that are ticket holders and alumni.

No guarantee that Toppin would ever be drafted, so money like this is mostly going to guys that aren’t risking the first round. The best guys will go pro and try and get to their second contract as early as they can. Even then, this process helps truly test the “flash in the pan” guys and make them prove it for another season of development before possibly getting drafted.

As for colleges, I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s truly a test on your team culture. If you want to be a hard ass, old school, my way or the highway style coach, well, players will ultimately choose the highway. But if you want to build a culture where guys feel valued and developed? They’ll stick around and take a little less money in order to end up the best they can be. As an IU alum, I HAVE to point out Matt Painter and Purdue as a huge success there. They have yet to lose anyone they desperately want to keep, and guys have stuck around as developmental pieces for years to finally get their chance.

I for one kind of like it.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Pacers Forever wrote:From Evan Sidery:

The impact of NIL for NBA Draft prospects, especially ones projected in the late-first round, is starting to show.

Texas Tech’s JT Toppin is returning to school earning $4+ million next year, per @MattNorlander.

Toppin will be making similar money as a 2025 lottery pick.

IMHO:
This is one of the main reasons I don’t watch college basketball anymore. They broke what was going good by paying the players wayyy too much money. Also the transfer portal is another mistake which offers opportunity for several players to leave and the team has to be rebuilt possibly yearly due to programs offering cash to lure players to their universities. Almost like building super teams in college.

They’ve made it hard to cheer for a team when each year nobody knows what the team will look like. I feel sorry for the fans that are ticket holders and alumni.

No guarantee that Toppin would ever be drafted, so money like this is mostly going to guys that aren’t risking the first round. The best guys will go pro and try and get to their second contract as early as they can. Even then, this process helps truly test the “flash in the pan” guys and make them prove it for another season of development before possibly getting drafted.

As for colleges, I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s truly a test on your team culture. If you want to be a hard ass, old school, my way or the highway style coach, well, players will ultimately choose the highway. But if you want to build a culture where guys feel valued and developed? They’ll stick around and take a little less money in order to end up the best they can be. As an IU alum, I HAVE to point out Matt Painter and Purdue as a huge success there. They have yet to lose anyone they desperately want to keep, and guys have stuck around as developmental pieces for years to finally get their chance.

I for one kind of like it.

Full disclosure,.. I was not a fan of either the NIL money, nor the transfer portal when they were first introduced. Now,... I have to admit, I like the portal. In hindsight,... I realize that 18 year olds (every age group,.. some like me will do it forever,...) sometimes don't understand the circumstances around their decisions, and sometimes, even if they do, things change. Holding a 'no longer a kid', but 'not yet a full adult' to the consequences of a decision where they are recruited (more or less 'sold') a set of circumstances, now, just doesn't seem right. If the player wants to move,... let them move.

For NIL,... I can understand why it happened. I still don't think it's done properly. Schools,.. and in many cases a group of alumni, were fast into the recruiting pitch with money to effectively 'buy' as many of the best players as possible. I'm thinking of 1 specific school here,... and it was interesting to me, to see 3 of the 4 players they publicly bid to get,... now in the portal this year. Good young men, that were paid good money & promised an opportunity. The opportunity never came, so they are off to a new opportunity. Just like an employee getting a new job.

For it to work properly,... and keep competition, I think the NCAA (or whatever survives to govern college athletics?) will have to have some kind of salary cap? Total expenditure cap for each year? something to prevent the all out bidding war that exists now. I think that would actually help the players as well? There are a number of the players I know signed because of NIL in the portal (as I said above), they are smart enough to realize that the opportunity to improve, visibly play, & improve their reputation as a player can be worth 100's of mills, not the 3, 4, 10 mill they will get for a year at a specific university?

Interesting times,....

JMaster5K wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Pacers Forever wrote:From Evan Sidery:

The impact of NIL for NBA Draft prospects, especially ones projected in the late-first round, is starting to show.

Texas Tech’s JT Toppin is returning to school earning $4+ million next year, per @MattNorlander.

Toppin will be making similar money as a 2025 lottery pick.

IMHO:
This is one of the main reasons I don’t watch college basketball anymore. They broke what was going good by paying the players wayyy too much money. Also the transfer portal is another mistake which offers opportunity for several players to leave and the team has to be rebuilt possibly yearly due to programs offering cash to lure players to their universities. Almost like building super teams in college.

They’ve made it hard to cheer for a team when each year nobody knows what the team will look like. I feel sorry for the fans that are ticket holders and alumni.

No guarantee that Toppin would ever be drafted, so money like this is mostly going to guys that aren’t risking the first round. The best guys will go pro and try and get to their second contract as early as they can. Even then, this process helps truly test the “flash in the pan” guys and make them prove it for another season of development before possibly getting drafted.

As for colleges, I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s truly a test on your team culture. If you want to be a hard ass, old school, my way or the highway style coach, well, players will ultimately choose the highway. But if you want to build a culture where guys feel valued and developed? They’ll stick around and take a little less money in order to end up the best they can be. As an IU alum, I HAVE to point out Matt Painter and Purdue as a huge success there. They have yet to lose anyone they desperately want to keep, and guys have stuck around as developmental pieces for years to finally get their chance.

I for one kind of like it.

Full disclosure,.. I was not a fan of either the NIL money, nor the transfer portal when they were first introduced. Now,... I have to admit, I like the portal. In hindsight,... I realize that 18 year olds (every age group,.. some like me will do it forever,...) sometimes don't understand the circumstances around their decisions, and sometimes, even if they do, things change. Holding a 'no longer a kid', but 'not yet a full adult' to the consequences of a decision where they are recruited (more or less 'sold') a set of circumstances, now, just doesn't seem right. If the player wants to move,... let them move.

For NIL,... I can understand why it happened. I still don't think it's done properly. Schools,.. and in many cases a group of alumni, were fast into the recruiting pitch with money to effectively 'buy' as many of the best players as possible. I'm thinking of 1 specific school here,... and it was interesting to me, to see 3 of the 4 players they publicly bid to get,... now in the portal this year. Good young men, that were paid good money & promised an opportunity. The opportunity never came, so they are off to a new opportunity. Just like an employee getting a new job.

For it to work properly,... and keep competition, I think the NCAA (or whatever survives to govern college athletics?) will have to have some kind of salary cap? Total expenditure cap for each year? something to prevent the all out bidding war that exists now. I think that would actually help the players as well? There are a number of the players I know signed because of NIL in the portal (as I said above), they are smart enough to realize that the opportunity to improve, visibly play, & improve their reputation as a player can be worth 100's of mills, not the 3, 4, 10 mill they will get for a year at a specific university?

Interesting times,....

I definitely agree that there should be a salary cap for student athletes and it should be equivalent to an average of what non athletic college students make in their jobs if working during the school year.

I do believe that athletes should get money, but not so much that there are bidding wars and money based choices being made. It should be about the college academics and campus amenities rather than how much they can earn. Yeah I’m old school.

Pacers Forever wrote:I definitely agree that there should be a salary cap for student athletes and it should be equivalent to an average of what non athletic college students make in their jobs if working during the school year.

caps are allowed in pro sports because they are part of a collectively bargained contract with a players union. there is currently no college equivalent so it'd be an anti-trust violation. several decades ago I said to myself that were I younger there was money to be made organizing a union. I wasn't nearly as old as I thought of myself as being. oh, well.

Wizop wrote:

Pacers Forever wrote:I definitely agree that there should be a salary cap for student athletes and it should be equivalent to an average of what non athletic college students make in their jobs if working during the school year.

caps are allowed in pro sports because they are part of a collectively bargained contract with a players union. there is currently no college equivalent so it'd be an anti-trust violation. several decades ago I said to myself that were I younger there was money to be made organizing a union. I wasn't nearly as old as I thought of myself as being. oh, well.

What you say is true. There would have to be some form of collective bargaining that the players agree to take part in when they accept a scholarship? There would likely have to be some form of revenue sharing to make it work, but I don't think the NCAA is ready to give up anything in that regard?

Pacers Forever wrote:

JMaster5K wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
No guarantee that Toppin would ever be drafted, so money like this is mostly going to guys that aren’t risking the first round. The best guys will go pro and try and get to their second contract as early as they can. Even then, this process helps truly test the “flash in the pan” guys and make them prove it for another season of development before possibly getting drafted.

As for colleges, I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s truly a test on your team culture. If you want to be a hard ass, old school, my way or the highway style coach, well, players will ultimately choose the highway. But if you want to build a culture where guys feel valued and developed? They’ll stick around and take a little less money in order to end up the best they can be. As an IU alum, I HAVE to point out Matt Painter and Purdue as a huge success there. They have yet to lose anyone they desperately want to keep, and guys have stuck around as developmental pieces for years to finally get their chance.

I for one kind of like it.

Full disclosure,.. I was not a fan of either the NIL money, nor the transfer portal when they were first introduced. Now,... I have to admit, I like the portal. In hindsight,... I realize that 18 year olds (every age group,.. some like me will do it forever,...) sometimes don't understand the circumstances around their decisions, and sometimes, even if they do, things change. Holding a 'no longer a kid', but 'not yet a full adult' to the consequences of a decision where they are recruited (more or less 'sold') a set of circumstances, now, just doesn't seem right. If the player wants to move,... let them move.

For NIL,... I can understand why it happened. I still don't think it's done properly. Schools,.. and in many cases a group of alumni, were fast into the recruiting pitch with money to effectively 'buy' as many of the best players as possible. I'm thinking of 1 specific school here,... and it was interesting to me, to see 3 of the 4 players they publicly bid to get,... now in the portal this year. Good young men, that were paid good money & promised an opportunity. The opportunity never came, so they are off to a new opportunity. Just like an employee getting a new job.

For it to work properly,... and keep competition, I think the NCAA (or whatever survives to govern college athletics?) will have to have some kind of salary cap? Total expenditure cap for each year? something to prevent the all out bidding war that exists now. I think that would actually help the players as well? There are a number of the players I know signed because of NIL in the portal (as I said above), they are smart enough to realize that the opportunity to improve, visibly play, & improve their reputation as a player can be worth 100's of mills, not the 3, 4, 10 mill they will get for a year at a specific university?

Interesting times,....

I definitely agree that there should be a salary cap for student athletes and it should be equivalent to an average of what non athletic college students make in their jobs if working during the school year.

I do believe that athletes should get money, but not so much that there are bidding wars and money based choices being made. It should be about the college academics and campus amenities rather than how much they can earn. Yeah I’m old school.

That’d be like $3k per player?

I’m ok with players getting paid. We’ve seen a massive arms race in college facilities, and now coaches, AD’s, assistants, and even “GM’s” and admins get paid $1m or more (many coaches making ten times that), but the players have historically gotten $0. For most players, they’re not going pro, but they’ve created value many, many times over what their scholarship has provided. I think it’s only fair they get some of what they produced, and they can provide some of what they’ve produced to change their family tree, instead of the Mike Woodson’s and Matt Painter’s getting $5-10m per year, and growing.

But I’m always on the side of labor against management. I’m biased that way.

With two games to go, the Pacers have locked 4th and have a mathematical chance for 3rd. Tony East's Locked on Pacers makes the interesting point that if we lose twice several West Conference teams can exceed our record greatly improving our draft position.