Popovich is popping

[Boneman2]

Basically Popovich is fuming because LA got Pau below market value. He thinks it was unethical. While I agree with Pop about fair play, I don't follow him here. My beef is with transactions that you know are total B.S.

Actually I've always felt this way and ironically it all started with LA, and how they stole Shaq ( numerous titles) from the Magic.

Another sin committed by LA was how they acquired Kobe. Remember Kobe demanded to play in one market only, Hollywood. Because Charlotte chose Kobe with the 13th pick meant nothing, they basically drafted Vlade.

Finally the way Detroit acquired Sheed was bull@#$%. Portland essentially gave him to Detroit, via Atlanta. The Pacers were very good that year, but that cheap a$$ transaction cost us a legitimate shot at a title.

These three deals were shady, but I don't think LA acquiring Gasol was unfair or void of ethics. Sure Pau makes LA instantly better, but they risked their future to do it. LA gave up two first, large expiring and young prospect. Keep in mind Memphis preferred Kwame over Lamar, so it's not like LA didn't try to make it fair.

It seems in line with what we'd like to receive for JO so Pop better get used to it, or jump in the trade market. Eventually JO will be moved, and there is a good chance he goes west, probably to Dallas.

[Boneman2]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50777/20080209/popovich_speaks_out_about_gasol_trade/

Here is the article.

[Grang33r]

Sour grapes.

Although, Spurs havn't been playing like the Spurs as of late and i think this may be a motivation for his team. They will wonder that their play isn't good enough to beat the Lakers and they will all raise their games and roll past the Lakers... well in theory. I think Lakers are gonna be very hard to beat and maybe the team to beat now in the West. Bynum when healthy, Odom, with Gasol and Kobe. They are loaded.

[glasket]

To me Gasol and JO are similar players (statistically wise) and basically given what the Grizzlies got, I think that if we got the same deal for JO I would be satisfied so I am not sure why some all this an unfair trade.

As was said above, the Lakers gave up some future for the present.

[Dgranger33]

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Lakers won the deal by a long shot. Pau was becoming a negative on the Grizz, and they weren't getting enough value for him on the market. Crittenton allows them to move Navarro, and Kwame unloads major cap space. But the key was TWO first round picks. Sure, NBA picks aren't locks to become starters...but for a rebuilding team, those two picks can go a long way. Sure Pau has played well so far, but I don't think it will last. Pop shouldn't have said anything, hes a well respected coach for taking care of business regardless of rumors/scandals. This was out of line imo.

[count55]

Posted this on PD in a related thread:

Regardless of the motivation, the fact that deals are made where one team gets a great deal of basketball value because the other team is looking purely for financial relief does alter the competitive landscape in the NBA, and in a way I don't particularly like.

We don't have to look far from home to know that had Detroit not been able to pick up Rasheed for a bag of stale popcorn and a flat diet coke, that our history over the last four years could've been significantly different.

Had Rasheed finished the year in Atlanta, then it likely would've been us facing the injured and fractured Lakers. We could've been the defending champion in Auburn Hills that night, and it's likely that the level of animosity between the two teams would not have approached the levels they were at when the Brawl occurred. Would the brawl have ever occurred, at all?

Now, obviously that's idle speculation, and I'm not blaming the brawl and the subsequent Pacer meltdown on the Rasheed deal. Dumars was simply in a position to make a smart move and taking advantage of the kind of odd rules created by salary caps, luxury taxes, etc.

However, there will always be something that feels a little off to me when the purpose of both teams isn't to improve their own play on the floor. Memphis clearly was dumping salary, for virtually no reasonable return, for non-basketball reasons. It harkens back to the bad old days of Ted Stepien in Cleveland, and yes, Sam Nassi here in Indy.

I recognize the business aspect of the sport, but I do wish there were some way to prevent grossly uneven trades where one team clearly looking to just save money at the expense of quality of play.

It's my concern that the Pacers organization will be accused of the same thing in the not-too-distant future. I'll understand making financial moves, to some degree, but if we just start dumping salary with no real plan, I'll start having flashbacks to the early '80's.

First rounders are grossly overrated. The infatuation with them sometimes reaches the level of buying lottery tickets in hopes of paying the rent with the winnings.

[notque]

First rounders mean jack in the NBA. 82games did a comprehensive study and all but the top 3 picks are absolute crap.

Guys can be had, but it's a crap shoot, and not worth it.

[floppymoose]

The only study I see there is the one on relative value of draft picks. In other words, what is the answer to questions like: how many #10 picks would be a fair trade for a single #1 pick?

It didn't address the absolute value of draft picks. So I'm not sure how to use that study to draw a line at the top 3, and claling the rest crap.

http://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm

[chatard5]

Posted this on PD in a related thread:

-= original quote snipped =-



First rounders are grossly overrated. The infatuation with them sometimes reaches the level of buying lottery tickets in hopes of paying the rent with the winnings.

Yeah I agree 100%. It is much better to have an early second rounder than a late first rounder. While there might be a slight difference in the possibility of become an effective player (I would be interested in seeing the differences in players drafted 27-30 vs. 31-34), if you aren't impressed with the players early on, you just let em go!

[Boneman2]

First round picks mean nothing to bigger markets that can lure f/a's at will. Indiana is not one of those places, we value draft picks a little more than others. I like our chances drafting in the late teens unearthing gems like Granger and Williams. The 08' draft is going to be loaded with several seven footers and a bunch of lightning quick point guards. I'd like to have a couple shots in the first round.


Good post Count55, we share the same view on that Sheed scam.

[floppymoose]

Now I understand the "2" in "Boneman2".

[count55]

Now I understand the "2" in "Boneman2".

For those who are scratching their heads, Boneman had accidentally double posted, and I deleted the duplicate (as is practice, just for flow)...floppy had commented before I deleted it.

[Charcoal Filtered]

We could have just as easily made the Rasheed deal as Detroit and our management failed to act. Whether it be not making the deal originally with Portland or failing to offer a competitive trade, we screwed up. Kudos to Detroit as they deserved that championship.

Agree that low 1st rounders are not that valuable. Portland has been buying them here recently and are still going to miss the playoffs this year. The only thing it has done for us is stock up on overseas players and ensure that our record was bad.

Think Memphis did not get enough in return for Gasol, but would not say this is as bad as what happened in Cleveland. They were not winning with Pau and this makes the team more attactive for a buyer. The Lakers had the necessary pieces to trade, just like the Celtics did with Garnett.

The Spurs have made more than one trade that had nothing to do with on the court production and only finance. Think the teams playing in the same division as the Knicks liked them getting two first round picks to take Malik Rose's contract?

[Boneman2]

CF, I don't think the Pacers were in a position to acquire Sheed. We didn't have the expirings to get it done. It felt like Detroit knew they needed another piece and it was a forgone conclusion (collusion) they'd land 'Sheed.

Especially after his now infamous article where he used the N-word numerous times. Stern basically forced a trade by saying something to the effect , ' that if the people of Oregon support the Jail Blazers, than they support Sheed. It seemed like Stern was trying to make the fans feel guilty or something.

Trying to make the talent dump more desirable for Portland fans.

[Charcoal Filtered]

Portland traded Wallace for SAR and Ratliff. Think they would have liked a package of Bender and Harrington better?

We also traded an expiring deal in Ron Mercer along with Brad Miller in the preseason and took on the contract of Scot Pollard. That also could have been positioned to make this deal.

Stern also had nothing to do with Wallace leaving Portland. He would not sign an extention and that was the best offer John Nash recieved. The local media also was all over this team and attendance was starting to drop. I was working for the Blazers breifly that season and it was a mess here.

Dumars outplayed Walsh and Bird. He messed up the Darko pick, but has done a great job as GM otherwise.

[Grang33r]

Dumars outplayed Walsh and Bird. He messed up the Darko pick, but has done a great job as GM otherwise.

I disagree. Dumars has made a GREAT job making a great team but he has stopped from a rash of luck. For a team, to be stacked THAT WELL, have the 2nd overall pick in the draft and just win ONE championship? I don't think he has done a great job at all, esspicially since they are in the east which has been very weak during the "Pistons glory days". They selected Darko, big mistake, kept him too long, second mistake, their coaching carousal was a train wreck, they failed to add on to their team. They havn't added quality players to add depth (brezec?) and havn't drafted well.

Their fans can be happy because they do have one nba title with this core of players, but that is it and with the way it all started, they should have had more and more appearances in the finals.

[joew8302]

I don't buy that. I think Joe D is doing a great job for Detroit. I extremely dislike Dumars, but I have to give him credit. Have you guys seen the young talent they have? Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson will be very good players. He has also kept this core together, while letting Ben Wallace go which was very smart. Joe D has put a team that is a title contender together for the last half decade, that is not something that is easy to do.

[Danny Darko]

I think Memphis did a good job, actually-

one thing you guys missed was Marc Gasol. He's not just a name in common with his brother, he's vying for MVP of the spanish league.

Critt, Gasol, 13mill in room(most in the league for them now), and 2 #1's

i think that's pretty good. They'll likely get a top 3 lottery pick, a low #1 this year, and come in next year with 4 young talented players and a Major FA if they choose to spend the money this offseason instead of holding on to it, which would allow them to make a trade with any team they want to absorb a big contract and name.

Pop is bitter, and he should be because while dangerous, his team is aging fast and looking down the barrel of Twin towers and Kobe Bryant with Odom as a role player with major talent.

[Grang33r]

I don't buy that. I think Joe D is doing a great job for Detroit. I extremely dislike Dumars, but I have to give him credit. Have you guys seen the young talent they have? Aaron Afflalo, Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson will be very good players. He has also kept this core together, while letting Ben Wallace go which was very smart. Joe D has put a team that is a title contender together for the last half decade, that is not something that is easy to do.

What do they have to show for? Their amazing team was easily beaten by the Cavs last year.

In a weak Eastern Conference, it wasn't hard for them to be the best. And i don't know if those players will be very good. They seem decent to me. Dumars had alot of luck early on and it got him one title and nothing much more, for a title rich franchise as they are, i don't know if thats anything to be proud of. Dumars made alot of mistakes, too many, to be considered great.

[joew8302]

Umm they do have an NBA Title to show for it, something that we don't have. And I am not sure I agree Detroit is a title rich franchise as they have won 3 in 50 years.