ajizzle's Pacers - Clippers Trade

[ajizzle]

Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Trade ID #4565109

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -0.5 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -5.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Cuttino Mobley
6-4 SG from Rhode Island
12.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.1 minutes
Tim Thomas
6-10 SF / PF from Villanova
12.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2.7 apg in 30.8 minutes
Outgoing Players
Marquis Daniels
6-5 SG from Auburn
8.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.9 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
L.A. Clippers Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +0.5 ppg, +0.5 rpg, and +5.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Marquis Daniels
6-5 SG from Auburn
8.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.9 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Cuttino Mobley
6-4 SG from Rhode Island
12.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.1 minutes
Tim Thomas
6-10 SF / PF from Villanova
12.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2.7 apg in 30.8 minutes

For the Clippers, it provides them w/ a decent PG in Tinsley they desperately need until they make their final decision on Livingston. They get a backup wing who can replace a lot of Quinton Ross' production on both ends of the floor in Daniels. Also, they get a younger version of Brand in Diogu, who has shown a lot of potential, but will probably never get a chance to shine in Indy. So if Brand asks for too much next season, Ike could step in and is basically the same build, talent, and look of Brand, but for a much cheaper cost.

For us, it gives us a reliable veteran in Mobley who isn't a pure point, but can split time w/ D&D (Danny and Dunleavy) bringing the ball up. He can hit the 3, drive-and-kick, and is a very good defender w/ nice quicks to put pressure on the ball. Just a temporary solution while we develop Collison, Augustin, or Westbrook out of the draft. Thomas is basically a merc, but one that fits Obie's system: Good 3ball, can play both F positions, and would keep Shawne on his toes, letting him know we have someone who can do what he does in case he messes up off the court.

Potential Lineup:

Mobley/Drafted PG?/Diener
Dunleavy/Williams
Granger/Thomas
Murphy/Lorbek?
O'Neal/Foster

[count55]

In the interest of illustrating the offseason policy, I've broken this out as a separate thread. ajizzle's done an excellent job of making the OP...showing the Trade Checker, articulating his arguments.

I'm torn...I love the idea of getting rid of Tinsley, but I just don't see these guys helping us. Mobley's a 2, and Thomas would just syphon minutes away from Shawne.

I can understand that we won't get any value back for Tinsley, but if that's the case, I'd rather just suck it up in a smaller trade where we take a Jerome James or Jared Jeffries or Brian Cardinal contract.

Plus, I'd rather sit on Marquis and let him expire at the end of the year than do this with him.

[cdash]

I really dont like Tim Thomas, and Cat Mobley is overpaid, but in that scenario we are getting rid of two guys we really, really need to get rid of. Thomas is effective when hes motivated, problem is, hes not in a contract year so hes not going to be motivated. I would probably pull the trigger on this deal though. I'm not a huge fan of giving up Ike in this deal, but I think if the Clips threw us a second rounder as well I'd be able to swallow it a little easier.

[IndyDave02]

I would rather keep Tinsley for a 1/2 season (until either injured or moved before the trade deadline) than pick up another SG or SF- The two positions we are best suited at. If Tinsely can get healthy, he is a good PG as seen earlier this season.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Yea, I don't think Pacers can afford to take on more SG/SF's. I'd rather have Tinsley play 40 games a year than get Thomas and Mobley. Good players, I actually like them, but we are too stacked at the position, maybe if they replace Thomas with a backup PG or something, but then the Clippers wouldn't.

[laydo]

I don't think the trade will work. The GM of Clippers is pretty clever, and they aren't likely to get Tinsley and Daniels, two players that easily get injured and troubled off the court, even they need a point guard.

Also, I think that if Pacers can not get Derrick Rose and OJ Mayo in the draft, they should select a big guy. Because only these two young players are well enough to play defense that Pacers need. Other point guards such as Bayless, Augustin, or Collison also are good and have lots of potential. But they need time to grow and that's the problem.

Coach Jim O'Brien likes the player who plays good defense. And he won't let young players play too much time if they cannot play good defense. So, I don't think that Augustin, Collison, Lawson would be the good choice for Indiana.

Since the Rose and OJ are the only two players I think that will fit the hole of the starting PG for Paers, so if we can't get either one of them, I think it is better to sign or to trade a point guard.

[ajizzle]

I know Mobley's a 2, but he has good enough handles to play point... not pure point, but that's why I'd like for D&D to split time bringing the ball up. It kinda reminds me (not talent-wise) of the trio the Bulls had w/ MJ, Pip, and Harper. None of those guys are pure points, but all 3 could bring it up and initiate the offense. B/c we don't depend on assists from our PG in Obie's O, I think it would work just fine. Plus, Cuttino is a very good defender, very quick, and at 6'4, would be big enough for the Billups and Arenases of this L.

I like their contracts, b/c they expire along w/ JO after the 2010 season. I don't think we'll be able to trade JO, so might as well make a quick run w/ some solid veterans who actually fit Obie's O quite well: Good 3ball range, able to play dual positions, in good enough shape to run when needed.

The draft is very unpredictable right now. We don't know where we'll be picking, but we do know what we need: A shot-blocking Center and a Defensive PG. At 11, I don't really like Augustin too much for defense, Lawson and Collison are good, but very small, and shooting is a ?. I'd like us to somehow get Chalmers in the draft, but choose either Hibbert, Thabeet (my choice), or Jordan early. Again, we don't know who's value is gonna skyrocket/plummet after camps and workouts, b/c Chalmers, who was a sure-fire 2nd-rounder early this year has probably vaulted himself into the 1st-round, maybe even the lottery. Hibbert may have lowered his. We'll see.

Thomas won't take minutes away from Shawne, unless Shawne's ****ing up. We need a backup in case Shawne doesn't develop like we want, and Thomas isn't a bad choice. Thomas was who Shawne is now: A lot of potential that was never fully realized. Regardless, he's still a dependable option if Shawne falters.

Right now, money's a fluid situation. Mobley's overpaid, but Tinsley's way overpaid. Thomas isn't in a contract year, but he still fits our system better than Daniels or Diogu. We could even sign-and-trade Rush to sweeten the deal, but we need to move these guys, and if the Clips would do it (while possibly throwing in a 2nd), it could only help,

[FreeRon]

I think we'd be better off re-signing Flip. He's a poor man's Mobley at this point, only better at PG. It's never good to start a season with Travis Diener as the only player who's started point in an NBA game.

[PR07]

I don't really know if Mobley can play the point. In theory, he should be able to play a decent PG, but I'd rather find a true PG or a younger combo guard to run the the show.

[Granger da OG]

Kinda an ugly trade. I hate Tinsley but I think Id have to say no deal. Maybe maybe if they switched us first round picks depending on who is available.

[IndyDave02]

If we are looking to get rid of Tinsley, I would prefer something with Seattle like this:


Incoming Players
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
10.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.8 apg in 29.1 minutes
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
10.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.2 minutes
Johan Petro
7-0 C from France (Foreign)
6.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
6.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 14.9 minutes
Seattle Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -3.0 ppg, -3.7 rpg, and +0.9 apg.
Incoming Players
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
6.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 14.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
10.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.8 apg in 29.1 minutes
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
10.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.2 minutes
Johan Petro
7-0 C from France (Foreign)
6.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.2 minutes

I am not sure if Ike and Shawne would be enough for Seattle to give up Green and take Tinsley. Our line up would look like this:

C- Murphy/ Petro
PF- O'Neal/ Foster
SF- Granger/Green
SG- Dunleavy/Daniels
PG- Watson/Denier (please resign Flip Murray!)

THOUGHTS????

[JarrettJackSG]

i don't see any reason for them to take this deal, we are taking away 2 prospects and give them poorer prospects in return.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

If we are looking to get rid of Tinsley, I would prefer something with Seattle like this:


Incoming Players
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
10.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.8 apg in 29.1 minutes
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
10.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.2 minutes
Johan Petro
7-0 C from France (Foreign)
6.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
6.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 14.9 minutes
Seattle Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -3.0 ppg, -3.7 rpg, and +0.9 apg.
Incoming Players
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
11.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 8.4 apg in 33.2 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
5.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
6.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 14.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
10.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.8 apg in 29.1 minutes
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
10.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.2 minutes
Johan Petro
7-0 C from France (Foreign)
6.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.2 minutes

I am not sure if Ike and Shawne would be enough for Seattle to give up Green and take Tinsley. Our line up would look like this:

C- Murphy/ Petro
PF- O'Neal/ Foster
SF- Granger/Green
SG- Dunleavy/Daniels
PG- Watson/Denier (please resign Flip Murray!)

THOUGHTS????

Easy no from Sonics.