J.O. to Cavs?

[godlovesthepacers]

Trade rumors keep coming hot and heavy, though most of them are aren't worth repeating.

But here's one intriguing one I heard today: The Cleveland Cavaliers could trade Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal.

It's an interesting idea, but when I called team sources to find out if there was any truth to it, they shot it down as bogus.

Still, I'd watch both teams closely. I think the Pacers will move O'Neal this summer if they can, and I think the Cavs are definitely going to try and strengthen the supporting cast this summer for LeBron's sake. A healthy O'Neal could be a big boon for the Cavs, and head coach Mike Brown, formerly with the Pacers, should know how to get the best out of him.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft200 ... ateChanged

Did anybody else see this in Chad Ford's ESPN Insider column? What are your thoughts if this goes down? I love it for Indy if Ilgauskas' contract isn't too large or too long, plus I think it makes the Cavs better w/ a front court of O'Neal & Ben Wallace.

[mizzoupacers]

I gave it a thumbs-up in the "Trade Ideas for Next Season" thread.

How realistic do you guys think this trade is? I honestly think it makes sense for both teams, assuming Cleveland is convinced that JO's health is worth the risk.

[godlovesthepacers]

He's definitely an upgrade over Drew Gooden (when he was there) & I think with as much time as O'Neal had off this year w/ rehab, he was able to heal without a lot of wear. Maybe it's wishful thinking as a Pacer fan, but if I were Cleveland, this might be too intriguing to pass up. Plus, I think J.O. may be a little more motivated playing next to one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.

[Grang33r]

I hate Ilgauskas. If we do this, theres another deal somewhere getting rid of Jeff Foster. 19th pick is kinda low for a player like O'Neal though.

[mizzoupacers]

Ilgauskas is not my favorite player either, but I'll take 70 games worth of him over 40 games worth of JO, particularly since JO is on the outs with the Pacer front office.

The way I see it, what the Pacers get out of this trade is a better-balanced payroll, a couple of nice complementary pieces in Varejao and the #19, and the chance to get a couple more by trading Foster and maybe eventually Z. Even a year ago, I would have hoped to get quite a bit more than that for JO, but my sense is that the situation between him and the Pacers is deteriorating badly and rapidly, so any trade that removes that cloud, brings in some worthwhile assets, and does not bring in any liabilities is a trade that I like.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I'm going to pass. Z is old. V is the same thing as Foster, and the 19th pick isn't anything special. I'll keep JO.

[Charcoal Filtered]

Make them take Tinsley.

[cdash]

I'm going to pass. Z is old. V is the same thing as Foster, and the 19th pick isn't anything special. I'll keep JO.

Agreed.

[CableKC]

I hate Ilgauskas. If we do this, theres another deal somewhere getting rid of Jeff Foster. 19th pick is kinda low for a player like O'Neal though.

If JONeal didn't have any Question Marks surrounding his health...then I can agree with you. But I don't think that JONeal has that much trade value given his health. I even doubt that if this were true...that the Cavs would consider this while including the 19th pick.

Although I agree that this trade would open up the possiblity of moving Foster as a very valuable Expiring Contract....I would prefer to keep Foster just to ensure that we have a healthy Frontcourt that would mop up on the Offensive Rebounding end...something that we need given the sheer # of FGA that we make and miss.

[CableKC]

Assuming that there is any validity to this trade....looking at this financially, we would come out ahead as we are taking in less guaranteed $$ over the 2 seasons and take less of a salary cap hit as well.

In Total guaranteed $$$:

Total guaranteed $$$ that Big Z + Varajeo is owed between the 2008-2010 seasons : $34 mil ( assuming that both of them take their Player options )

Total guaranteed $$$ that JONeal is owed until the 2008-2010 season : $44 mil ( assuming that JONeal doesn't opt out )

Salary cap impact in the 2008-2009 season

For Big Z + Varajeo - $10.8 mil ( Big Z ) + $5.74 mil ( Varajeo )
= $16.5 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $22 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

Salary cap impact in the 2009-2010 season ( assuming that both Big Z and Varejeo take their Player options

For Big Z + Varajeo - $11.5 mil ( Big Z ) + $6.2 mil ( Varajeo ) = $17.7 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $23 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

The real benefit here is that we gain some Salary cap back OVER THE NEXT 2 SEASONS. This is key since it gives us some breathing room to resign Granger when his contract comes up for Extension ( which I think is in the 2009-2010 season ). However, the only possible ( but minor downside ) is that I can totally see Varajeo opt out of his Player Option in the 2009-2010 season ( cuz it appears that he didn't get the contract that he was looking for )......which is a good or bad thing. I don't mind that he would essentially be an Expiring contract....but I don't mind having him on the team since he appears to be a slightly better scoring version of Foster. If we try to resign him...he would be very expensive.

I would definitely consider a "Big Z and Varajeo + 19th pick for JONeal" trade but I doubt that the Cavs would.....they seem to be giving up too much for an oft-injured JONeal while taking in more Guaranteed $$$.

A deal that would IMHO be fair for the Cavs ( and likely more paletable ) is Big Z+Snow+19 for JONeal ( allowing them to keep Varajeo ). I'm not saying it's optimal or that we would want Snow.....I just don't think that JONeal has that much trade value.

At best...I can see a Big Z+Varajeo for JONeal or a Big Z+Snow+19 for JONeal trade that is fair for both teams.

Giving up Big Z+Varajeo+19 seems to be too much since there is a huge Question Mark surrounding JONeal's health.

[CableKC]

I'm going to pass. Z is old. V is the same thing as Foster, and the 19th pick isn't anything special. I'll keep JO.

Although I doubt that the Cavs would include the 19th pick....if they did....I would take it and draft Rush, Robin Lopez ( for insurance purposes after Foster expires and IF Varajeo opts out in the 2009-2010 season ), Chalmers ( if he comes out ), Jason Thompson, Spreights or even McGee.

Either way.....with 2 picks....you have the option to gamble on a player while going after a safer pick.

[mg]

As a Cavs fan I doubt they trade big Z for many reasons. First off his contract is insured and they have nothing to lose by keeping him. I really see Z finishing his career in Cleveland after everything he's been through. Eric Snow is basically retired and has already begun his coaching career..word is he will make his retirement official before the season so his last year will not count toward the cap. I could see the Cavs trading a combination of Joe Smith/ESnow who are both ending contracts before BigZ.

I would hate to see Varejao go but after that nasty holdout last summer the writing is on the wall. This past season was just a wasted year for him in Cleveland.

The Cavaliers have over 30 million in ending contracts and we are hopeful they can use those to finally bring in some help for LeBron. I'm lukewarm on Jermaine because of his injury history, but honestly they have limited trade assets so someone like O'Neal may be the best they can do. Personally, the Cavs may be better to wait a while. Maybe Milwuakee gets desperate to move Redd or another team gets itchy to move their star player for expirings or future picks.

[Scoot McGroot]

As a Cavs fan I doubt they trade big Z for many reasons. First off his contract is insured and they have nothing to lose by keeping him.

Almost every player in this league has an insured contract. It's rare, and a telling sign, when they don't have an insured contract, such as Quentin Richardson and likely Eddy Curry.




However, I'd definitely do this deal if I could get Cleveland to also swap Eric Snow's contract for Jamaal Tinsley. That in conjunction with the rest of the deal would do it for me.


I'd then put Varejao, Ilgauskas, and Foster up on the market and trade up to 2 of them for 1st round draft picks (preferably Ilgauskas, and then either Varejao or Foster).

[CableKC]

I doubt that many here would consider it....but I could possibly consider:

Varajeo+Eric Snow*+Delonte West ( S&T )**+19th pick*** for JONeal

* - Buy out Eric Snow
** - S&T West with a Contracts starting at $4.5 mil per year over 3 season ( with the 4th year as a Team Option ) with 15% raise per season ( about a $19 mil guaranteed contract ).
*** - Draft Robin Lopez, Spreights or Jason Thompson ( if we draft a Guard ) or draft Rush, Augustin or Chalmers ( if we draft a Big Man ).

Essentially, this would boil down to a trade of JONeal for an Expiring Contract ( Snow )+2 young and solid players ( West and Varajeo ) + Draft pick. I know tha it doesn't seem like much for a player like JONeal....but this is basically a deal that is similiar to those that involved Gasol, KG and AI.

[IndieRuso420]

CLE would never do that deal. At this point, JO doesn't have the value to get an old Z & a healthy V with a 1st rounder on top of that. That's 3 players for a guy that might not play half the season. Sorry, but if I am CLE GM I wouldn't touch that.

There is one team that I can see JO going to and that is SAC. SAC has three very mediocre big men whos contract all equal up to JO's and all end at the same time. Essentially the deal would be:

JO
#41

FOR

Shareef Abdur Rahim
Kenny Thomas
Mikki Moore
#12

Though there isn't a lot of talent coming back, the Pacers do get back to back lottery picks, as well as a chance to start rebuilding. All three of those players contracts come off the same time JO's would as well. It is essentially an injured big man for three injured big men & a lottery pick swap. Neither team gets the shaft, and again the Pacers get another lottery pick.

[Grang33r]

^^ I don't like that one bit. Thomas is garbage. Moore is slow, garbage and over paid. And Abdur-Rahim is ok but old and coming off massive injury. Rahim was going down hill as it was and just missed the entire season due to a bad knee, for a player like him, his knees will only get worse. It's basically O'Neal for the 12th pick.

[Grang33r]

And i don't think Cavs would even consider trading West. He was great for them in the playoffs and his defensive play is key for them. If they get another scorer to go with James, and West shuts down his PG opponent, Cavs could be winners in any game they play.

[IndieRuso420]

^^ I don't like that one bit. Thomas is garbage. Moore is slow, garbage and over paid. And Abdur-Rahim is ok but old and coming off massive injury. Rahim was going down hill as it was and just missed the entire season due to a bad knee, for a player like him, his knees will only get worse. It's basically O'Neal for the 12th pick.

That's about the best we are going to get for JO. Trust me, no one is going to give up a vet that is worth a damn for a guy who may play half the season at best. Same goes for Tins except we can't get a 1st out of him. It's either take a lottery pick and begin to rebuild, or keep suffering with this mediocre squad. Sorry, but that's my take. I don't see a whole lot of options out there, and I don't think this CLE if a legit option.

[Grang33r]

-= original quote snipped =-



That's about the best we are going to get for JO. Trust me, no one is going to give up a vet that is worth a damn for a guy who may play half the season at best. Same goes for Tins except we can't get a 1st out of him. It's either take a lottery pick and begin to rebuild, or keep suffering with this mediocre squad. Sorry, but that's my take. I don't see a whole lot of options out there, and I don't think this CLE if a legit option.

I disagree. I think we'll all be surprised when we see a deal for O'Neal. Just look at the Ray Allen deal last year. If we can not get a better deal then the one you came up with, i don't see us trading O'Neal. We're not in the business of helping other teams survive and become good. I do think we'll get a pretty good offer and we will pull the trigger. If i had to guess, i'll say O'Neal lands with either Portland or Charlotte.

[IndieRuso420]

Well I think you are looking at things from one side of the trade. You have to consider that JO might not ever be fully healthy again. Therefore, whomever we trade JO to, we might not be making them better. Whoever trades for JO is making a huge risk that he will not be injured. The Pacers have practically played that card three years straight and that has gotten us no where.

I want value just as much as anyone for JO, but I seriously do not see any team giving us a vet of any value because JO has such a serious injury risk.