How reliable is DraftExpress? (JO Rumor)

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I hope that it is worst than NBADraft because they are saying that the Pacers and the Cavs are working on a deal that would send the #11 pick AND JO for a package around Wally/Snow/other fillers.

I will not watch another Pacer game until Larry Bird is fired if this deal or something like this happens. The report is we are trying to package the 11 with JO in a deal for expirings. I will throw up if something like this happens, I cannot even believe that there is talks of this, apparently it has been confirmed by multiple sources close to the two teams.

Wow, just wow.

[Eindar]

Wow, you really made a mountain out of a molehill, there. All I'm reading in the Draft Express article is that JO's people are saying that he could see himself traded to the Cavs for expiring contracts. Doesn't say anything about Snow or Wally.

It does say we're trying to dangle the #11 with JO for something, but it doesn't say anything more than that. The Cavs rumors are a totally different thought.

Not to mention that JO would love to play with Lebron, so it makes a lot of sense to try to have "his people" put that rumor out there.

[artichokes]

For the record, DX is extremely reliable. They break every rumor before anyone else does.

[greenway84]

I like what I read (in general) from Draft Express, but I haven't really vetted them for reliability on trade rumors. I just think their talent evaluation makes sense.

For the sake of making sure the discussion is on point, here's what Draft Express said exactly:

The Indiana Pacers are trying to dangle the #11 pick in hopes of being able to package it with one of their ugly contracts (preferably Jermaine O

[PR07]

I wouldn't trade the #11 just to move JO, that's ludicrous.

[count55]

I wouldn't trade the #11 just to move JO, that's ludicrous.

I would only package the #11 with JO if the package we were getting back made sense to us, but yeah, using it as a carrot to get somebody to take JO seems silly.

It would make a little more sense as a "sweetener" if we were offloading dead weight like Droopy or T-Murda, but, if it's going with JO, we should be getting a pretty nice deal (including, hopefully, getting back into the draft...).

[greenway84]

i would find it terribly hard to believe that we would have to give our pick away to trade JO. I wouldnt be surprised if we traded it along with Murphy or Tinsley though. To be fair it doesnt say JO ofr sure it just says one of our bad contracts. this is some bad news to start my day.

[mizzoupacers]

I enjoy draftexpress's mock drafts and evaluations of draft prospects, and think theirs are as good as or better than anyone else's.

I don't put much stock in the "rumors" they report, though. Those rumors either are wrong to begin with, or fall through, at least 90 percent of the time, no matter who is reporting them.

I'm not sure that this JO + #11 to Cleveland thing even qualifies as a "rumor," it seems more like pure speculation IMO. Give me an actual named source and then maybe I'll call it a rumor.

[count55]

I'm extremely hopeful that Givony's got decent info, but he's just putting it together in the wrong way, but...

It strikes me that if a deal such as JO/11 for a package centering around the expirings of Wally/Snow could be the first move towards cleaning up the financials on the team and getting them ready for sale.

If a deal this bad goes through, I'm going to be less concerned about the incompetence of the front offense and more worried that they know exactly what they're doing.

[ahartleyvu]

We won't get Delonte West back in any deal IMO. He is their only option at PG.

I think if we can dump Tinsley with JO to the Cavs, it would be great.

JO+Tinsley
for
Wally+Snow+Joe Smith+19th(or AV instead of Smith/pick)

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

At this point I could care less about the financial stuff, I don't want to trade another draft pick, especially when Westbrook can fall to us.

[theanimal23]

I'm throwing around trade scenarios.

DX has indicated that Indy may be willing to deal JO and their #11 pick for Wally Z and Eric Snow.

DX and Chad Ford said, LAC might look into dealing the #7 pick for a Vet PG. Ford gives examples of TJ Ford and Hinrich. Prolly the two biggest names out of the PGs available. Both are somewhat young too.

Would people be interested in this deal:

Chicago Gets:
JO
Mobley
#11

LAC Gets:
Noce
Kirk

Indy Gets:
Gooden, Cedric Simmons, Brevin Knight (All Expire in 2009), and Tim Thomas who expires in 2010.
#7

Don't sign the draft picks, trade their rights in July once everyone loses their BYC, and we could have a deal.

With CLE's deal, Indy gets approx $21 million in expiring (2009) AND gives up their #11 pick.

With the deal I'm proposing, they have $10 million in expiring next year (2009), and $6.4 million in expiring in 2010. But, they stay in the lottery by moving up in the draft 4 spots.

If a deal like this would go down, Brand would likely not be a FA in 2009. I see him and LAC working on an extension with a solid core. Boozer could be a FA, but I find it hard to believe he will not get an extension in Utah. Ditto with Brand even without the deal. He is a part-time producer in Hollywood.

Why we do this:
1. Clear a logjam
2. Clear long-term deals for 2010
3. We could get a #7 potentially from LAC, well we go down a few spots to #11 from Indy

Why Indy does it:
1. Lose JO's deal
2. Expirings for this year. Unfortunately, Tim Thomas' deal runs into the following season.
3. Move up in the Lotto

Why LAC does it:
1. They have a solid nucleus in Brand, Kaman, and Maggette. You can roll out a lineup of: Kirk/Maggette/Thornton/Brand/Kaman with Noce as your 6th man. That should compete and land you a playoff spot in the West.

[IndieRuso420]

At this point I could care less about the financial stuff, I don't want to trade another draft pick, especially when Westbrook can fall to us.

DG, WESTBROOK WILL NOT FALL TO US! He is a Foye clone (Foye is not a Wade clone for the record). Foye didn't fall to #11, and I don't expect Westbrook either. That is more of a pipedream than any of the trade scenarios I come up with.

Also, I have been telling you for a month now... JO HAS NO VALUE TO ANYONE! If we move JO & Tinsley in one package, your damn right the other team will want the #11 pick because NOBODY WANTS JO & TINSLEY. Please, Pacer fans, TAKE OFF THE HOMER GOGGLES! JO & TINSLEY COMBINATION OF TALENT, INJURIES, AND CONTRACTS SUCK BALLS SO THEREFORE NO TEAM WANTS THEM.

I seriously think I am the only Pacer fan that realizes that the "true" value of JO. While some think I create lowball offers, compared to this crap its a dream. Seriously, lets all get with the program.

[FreeRon]

The offers you create are lowball. I don't think anyone here has said that we should hold out for more, though, just that if that's the offer we'd rather keep JO. I'm personally fine keeping him if the offers you've put out there are the only ones we get.

[Indydave]

DraftExpress is very reliable-- they broke the Al Harrington possible S&T well before it actually happened in August 2006. I've noticed that if DX posts a rumor, if it seems to be reported from a few sources (like this JO rumor is and the AH rumor was) it's probably got a chance of having some truth to it.

[count55]

-= original quote snipped =-



DG, WESTBROOK WILL NOT FALL TO US! He is a Foye clone (Foye is not a Wade clone for the record). Foye didn't fall to #11, and I don't expect Westbrook either. That is more of a pipedream than any of the trade scenarios I come up with.

Also, I have been telling you for a month now... JO HAS NO VALUE TO ANYONE! If we move JO & Tinsley in one package, your damn right the other team will want the #11 pick because NOBODY WANTS JO & TINSLEY. Please, Pacer fans, TAKE OFF THE HOMER GOGGLES! JO & TINSLEY COMBINATION OF TALENT, INJURIES, AND CONTRACTS SUCK BALLS SO THEREFORE NO TEAM WANTS THEM.

I seriously think I am the only Pacer fan that realizes that the "true" value of JO. While some think I create lowball offers, compared to this crap its a dream. Seriously, lets all get with the program.

This was unnecessary. People will have different opinions than you. If you're going to continue to act like an ass, then you'll get your posts deleted, in addition to further action.

As FreeRon mentioned, some people may be willing to keep JO if that's all you can get. Some people may still believe that they can get more, if not this summer, then next year as one more year comes off his contract. Some people may still believe that JO can be a contributor as a player.

Not a single person on this board, including you, has a direct line to the unfettered thoughts of GM's throughout the league. Not a single person on this board, including you, will have any say in what the Pacers do with or get for JO. They are all welcome to make their case. Just because they haven't agreed to your point of view doesn't mean that you can treat them this way.

It's going to be a long summer of rumors, and we're not going to have people throwing temper tantrums over things they have little or no control over.

[Grang33r]

I hope that it is worst than NBADraft because they are saying that the Pacers and the Cavs are working on a deal that would send the #11 pick AND JO for a package around Wally/Snow/other fillers.

I will not watch another Pacer game until Larry Bird is fired if this deal or something like this happens. The report is we are trying to package the 11 with JO in a deal for expirings. I will throw up if something like this happens, I cannot even believe that there is talks of this, apparently it has been confirmed by multiple sources close to the two teams.

Wow, just wow.

That's gotta be BS. 11th and O'Neal for GARBAGE? Unless we are getting LeBron James i'd agree i wouldn't watch another game. And that is not happening.

On a side note, DraftExpress is pretty accurate. The recently signed a partnership with Yahoo Sports which adds them credibility.

[mizzoupacers]

DraftExpress is very reliable-- they broke the Al Harrington possible S&T well before it actually happened in August 2006. I've noticed that if DX posts a rumor, if it seems to be reported from a few sources (like this JO rumor is and the AH rumor was) it's probably got a chance of having some truth to it.

Everyone and his monkey knew that the Hawks and Harrington were trying to work out a sign-n-trade, it was in their mutual best interests to do so. That hardly qualified as a big scoop.

Now, if draftexpress posted the essential components of the "Al to Indiana for the #11 pick" trade well before it actually happened, then I stand corrected. But I sure don't remember reading about it far in advance.

[CBBI]

Coming from a Cavs fan, I don't see any possibility of the Cavs getting Jermaine and the #11 for two expirings.

However, I do know that the Cavs would be willing to throw in Anderson Varejao in this deal, along with an 09 pick.

Something like this....

Jermaine O'Neal
#11 overall pick

for

Wally Szczerbiak
Eric Snow (or Damon Jones, another expiring contract)
Anderson Varejao
09 pick

Still fairly lopsided in the Cavs favor, but its closer to fair then Wally/Snow for Jermaine/11.

[count55]

My suspicion is that there's enough evidence available to that environment to confirm that the Pacers and Cavs are flirting with each other. Beyond that, everybody is speculating.

I think Givony is just piecing stuff together, but, hopefully, in the wrong order.

So, that being said...my take on what I'm putting down as reliable is:

The Pacers and Cavs are talking about JO, but nobody knows the particulars of the deal. (BTW...I think it's not an unreasonable stretch to say that JO & his agent know there are talks going on, that they involve somebody's draft pick, and that JO is OK with them (which Cleveland would be one of his preferred destination), and that's why he has notified the Pacers he's not opting out.)