How reliable is DraftExpress? (JO Rumor)

[8/24]

You've got no reason to be here other than to troll. Why don't you go back and enjoy your finals?

[PR07]

I'd rather just wait out JO's two remaining years than to use the #11 pick to move him. Trading a first round pick in consecutive years would be a HUGE mistake. We stunk pretty bad to get that #11, and now, you're telling me we're going to move it and our franchise player for expiring role players. Good luck selling that to the fans Larry.

I think Indiana and Cleveland are definitely talking, we've seen too much smoke, and it makes too much sense for them not to. However, I highly doubt we're moving our pick this offseason unless an offer blows us away.

[APerna]

Might want to check the Wiretap out...

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

-= original quote snipped =-



DG, WESTBROOK WILL NOT FALL TO US! He is a Foye clone (Foye is not a Wade clone for the record). Foye didn't fall to #11, and I don't expect Westbrook either. That is more of a pipedream than any of the trade scenarios I come up with.

Also, I have been telling you for a month now... JO HAS NO VALUE TO ANYONE! If we move JO & Tinsley in one package, your damn right the other team will want the #11 pick because NOBODY WANTS JO & TINSLEY. Please, Pacer fans, TAKE OFF THE HOMER GOGGLES! JO & TINSLEY COMBINATION OF TALENT, INJURIES, AND CONTRACTS SUCK BALLS SO THEREFORE NO TEAM WANTS THEM.

I seriously think I am the only Pacer fan that realizes that the "true" value of JO. While some think I create lowball offers, compared to this crap its a dream. Seriously, lets all get with the program.

Your right, you are smarter than the other 20+ posters on these Pacer boards...in fact, why do we even have opinions, clearly we are all idiots if we don't agree with the one guy who has a different opinion than the rest of us.

There is a huge difference between wanting more and accepting low ball offers. The fact is, the Pacers don't have to trade JO, next summer, he will be a 20 million dollar expiring. Thats insanely valuable. Why would we trade JO for whatever crap the other team can poop out to match salaries? WE WOULDN'T! JO is so much more valuable to this team playing 40 games a year than friggen Wally Z and Eric Snow would be playing 82. Did you not see the impact JO had at the end of the year when he came back? Obviously you are a JO hater and will trade him for any player - no matter who it is, for JO. The rest of the fans actually try to think logically as to whether or not a trade would actually help our team or not. Wally Z and Eric Snow don't do that. Wally would probably get 10 minutes a game if lucky behind Granger/Dunleavy/Daniels/Williams, he doesn't play defense and is very one dimensional, all he does is shoot, at least Dunleavy can create for other players on offense. Not only that, but you want us to trade our pick with him! You want us to throw away our future and talent for only cap space. I got news for ya, NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN IN INDIANA!!!!! We will never bring in a big name FA no matter how much cap space we have!

Your saying we are wearing homer glasses....I say the same thing to you, because I'm convinced your a Cavaliers fan. There is just no way you can think Wally Z and Eric Snow will help our team more than JO would, its impossible. So wave your little "Indie" title and "Indianapolis" location, as you probably live there, but stop waving your Pacer flag continuing to insult the rest of us like we are idiots.

I also find it funny you say Russell Westbrook won't fall to us when NBADraft has Westbrook going 8 - not to far from us, DraftExpress has him going 12 - after us, and Chad Ford has us drafting Russell Westbrook.

You are hoping for the worst in every Pacer scenario - your trade ideas were all bad, and you took that DraftExpress rumor to just make them worst by adding the 11th pick to deals every other Pacer fan already hated.

Clearly IndieRuso420 you have smoked far too much weed to be taken seriously anymore.

[IndieRuso420]

Whether you guys think I'm throwing a temper tantrum or not, I seem to be the only one that is not blinded by blatent Pacer homerism.

Can you guys please pretend you are not Pacer fans for a second and pretend your team is going to possibly trade for player/players that are:

A) Never Healthy

B) Have Terrible Contracts

C) Aren't good players

You think you would want your team to give up any type of quality?

Wouldn't you want the #11 pick in exchange for taking on bad players with horrible contracts?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[cdash]

Homerism? Please. I think the majority of posters on this board think pretty objectively about this team and its players. Saying JO isnt a good player is plain ignorant. He is a former MVP candidate, perrennial All-Star, with yes, a storied injury history. He is still a dominant low post defender, and that alone gives him value. Not to mention, teams that are trying to create tons of cap room for the LeBron, Wade, Bosh free agency bonanza in 2010 might find a $23 million dollar expiring contract very useful.

[IndieRuso420]

Homerism? Please. I think the majority of posters on this board think pretty objectively about this team and its players. Saying JO isnt a good player is plain ignorant. He is a former MVP candidate, perrennial All-Star, with yes, a storied injury history. He is still a dominant low post defender, and that alone gives him value. Not to mention, teams that are trying to create tons of cap room for the LeBron, Wade, Bosh free agency bonanza in 2010 might find a $23 million dollar expiring contract very useful.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree that JO is a good player.

In order to be a good player you have to be a usefull player. In order to be a usefull player, you have to play.

How can you consider a player (JO) a usefull player when out of three of the last four season, JO has stuggled to only play around 56% of Pacer games. How in the hell is a player who only player 56% of your games, usefull? How can a player be a good player, without being useful?

I will continue and continue to say this. JO was an MVP candidate almost a half decade ago. All Star? The All-Star voting is a complete joke? JO is not an all-star.

Pacer fans are holding onto the past and letting it affect building the future. I'm serious, a lot of blatent Pacer Homerism.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

JO not a good player? You have lost your mind. He averaged 15/7 on ONE LEG. He played the hurt this year and still put up respectable numbers. He has been 20/10 or 19/9 for every year for the past what? 6-7 years before that, and now because he played hurt he sucks? Give me a break.

But as for your question - yes I would.

Sign me up right this second for a Daniels/Foster for Ford/Kapono/17th pick trade.

Ford is always injured and has a bad contract and Kapono has a bad contract, so obviously they should give us the 17th pick. Lets be honest for a second to, Foster and Daniels are leagues better than friggen Wally Z and Snow too, and Ford isn't as good as JO and Kapono isn't as good as Tinsley, so maybe they should throw in a future 1st or 2 as well right?

Not to mention Morway just shot down those rumors of JO to Cleveland so clearly he must be an idiot too right? Why aren't you the Pacers GM? You would make us the best team ever, JO/Tinsley/11 for Wally Z and Snow. A follow up trade of Granger to the Blazers for 2 2nd round picks. Then we can trade our first next round for a 2nd - so we don't have the pay the player as much money. Then we can trade the rights to Reggie Millers stats/legacy for the rights to Steve Alford's NBA career, because who would want a good legacy? Oh, and Dunleavy is starting to become good - don't want that now do we, find a taker who will take on the burden of a first round pick for him and expirings.

Give me a break.

[IndieRuso420]

Also, this could end up making me looks bad, but I want to know.

Can anyone tell me what the Pacers record is when JO has played over the last four seasons? Is there anyway to find that out? Basically, I would be very surprised if the Pacers are over .500 with JO in the lineup over the past four years.

His inconsistent playing only restricts what the Pacers can do offensively. JO limits team chemisty because he never plays, and I would argue he slows the offense down as well. That's kind of off topic, but JO being injured and playing a game here and a game there isn't going to help team chemistry. Does that make any sense?

[cdash]

No one here is saying that we are going to get back an MVP candidate or All-Star for JO. I dont think any of us here are that delusional. With that being said, trading him for that package of rat feces rumored in the Cleveland deal is a lowball offer and a half. I might package our pick with Murphy to get rid of him and his contract, but I refuse to believe that we would have to entice a team to take JO with our pick.

On this whole, "packaging the 11th pick with X player" thing...can we even do that? Doesn't the NBA have rules against trading your first round pick in consecutive years? I guess it would work if we waited until after the draft and made our pick for the Cavs, but I just cant see this particular rumor happening.

[IndieRuso420]

JO not a good player? You have lost your mind. He averaged 15/7 on ONE LEG. He played the hurt this year and still put up respectable numbers. He has been 20/10 or 19/9 for every year for the past what? 6-7 years before that, and now because he played hurt he sucks? Give me a break.

But as for your question - yes I would.

Sign me up right this second for a Daniels/Foster for Ford/Kapono/17th pick trade.

Ford is always injured and has a bad contract and Kapono has a bad contract, so obviously they should give us the 17th pick. Lets be honest for a second to, Foster and Daniels are leagues better than friggen Wally Z and Snow too, and Ford isn't as good as JO and Kapono isn't as good as Tinsley, so maybe they should throw in a future 1st or 2 as well right?

Not to mention Morway just shot down those rumors of JO to Cleveland so clearly he must be an idiot too right? Why aren't you the Pacers GM? You would make us the best team ever, JO/Tinsley/11 for Wally Z and Snow. A follow up trade of Granger to the Blazers for 2 2nd round picks. Then we can trade our first next round for a 2nd - so we don't have the pay the player as much money. Then we can trade the rights to Reggie Millers stats/legacy for the rights to Steve Alford's NBA career, because who would want a good legacy? Oh, and Dunleavy is starting to become good - don't want that now do we, find a taker who will take on the burden of a first round pick for him and expirings.

Give me a break.

I realize we have our differences, but that's just plain bad. You think I don't know the difference between JO, Granger, Dunleavy? That's cool be that way.

Dunleavy and Granger are the only respectable basketball players the Pacers actually have left that play consistently (oops Sorry JO).

[IndieRuso420]

JO not a good player? You have lost your mind. He averaged 15/7 on ONE LEG. He played the hurt this year and still put up respectable numbers. He has been 20/10 or 19/9 for every year for the past what? 6-7 years before that, and now because he played hurt he sucks? Give me a break.

But as for your question - yes I would.

Sign me up right this second for a Daniels/Foster for Ford/Kapono/17th pick trade.

Ford is always injured and has a bad contract and Kapono has a bad contract, so obviously they should give us the 17th pick. Lets be honest for a second to, Foster and Daniels are leagues better than friggen Wally Z and Snow too, and Ford isn't as good as JO and Kapono isn't as good as Tinsley, so maybe they should throw in a future 1st or 2 as well right?

Not to mention Morway just shot down those rumors of JO to Cleveland so clearly he must be an idiot too right? Why aren't you the Pacers GM? You would make us the best team ever, JO/Tinsley/11 for Wally Z and Snow. A follow up trade of Granger to the Blazers for 2 2nd round picks. Then we can trade our first next round for a 2nd - so we don't have the pay the player as much money. Then we can trade the rights to Reggie Millers stats/legacy for the rights to Steve Alford's NBA career, because who would want a good legacy? Oh, and Dunleavy is starting to become good - don't want that now do we, find a taker who will take on the burden of a first round pick for him and expirings.

Give me a break.

I don't question JO's abilities. However, ability aside, JO CAN NOT BE A GOOD NBA PLAYER IF HE DOES NOT PLAY! IT'S THAT SIMPLE!

PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

How can you consider a player (JO) a usefull player when out of three of the last four season, JO has stuggled to only play around 56% of Pacer games. How in the hell is a player who only player 56% of your games, usefull? How can a player be a good player, without being useful?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Yao Ming has not played more than 57 games in the last 3 years, I suggest we trade Foster and Daniels for Ming and the Rockets 1st. Yao obviously sucks for being injured.

[APerna]

Alright guys....enough. If this doesn't return to the topic, it's getting locked.

[cdash]

Good for him, that's the past. How can you consider TJ Ford a useful player if he has missed more games the past 5 years than JO? (I forgot who it was who made this argument in another thread, I think PacerPerspective, but nevertheless, the idea's not mine).

[IndieRuso420]

Yao Ming has not played more than 57 games in the last 3 years, I suggest we trade Foster and Daniels for Ming and the Rockets 1st. Yao obviously sucks for being injured.

THIS ISNT ABOUT YAO, AND YES YAO MING SUCKS TOO! STILL DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION!

Sorry mod.

[IndieRuso420]

Good for him, that's the past. How can you consider TJ Ford a useful player if he has missed more games the past 5 years than JO? (I forgot who it was who made this argument in another thread, I think PacerPerspective, but nevertheless, the idea's not mine).

I also said I consider TJ Ford a less of an injury risk than JO.

First of all, TJ has looked healthy RECENTLY. JO has not. JO is a big man who is having knee issues. NOT GOOD!

At this point, I would be very very surprised if TJ Ford doesn't outplay JO in terms of games played by at least 1.5x over the next few seasons. That's my rationale.

[IndieRuso420]

I also want to add that aquiring TJ Ford isn't my #1 option for trading JO. It's just one of the few options.

[cdash]

Not really. The reason Jose Calderon exploded onto the scene was because Ford was injured. In fact, it was that whole Al Horford foul this past season that people were unsure whether Ford would continue playing or not. TJ Ford has spine problems. Spine problems are extremely serious for any person, athlete or not. Plenty of players have come back from knee problems (see: Amare Stoudemire) to be productive. I dont think JO will ever play 82 games in a season, but its not impossible for him to play 70ish.

[IndieRuso420]

Not really. The reason Jose Calderon exploded onto the scene was because Ford was injured. In fact, it was that whole Al Horford foul this past season that people were unsure whether Ford would continue playing or not. TJ Ford has spine problems. Spine problems are extremely serious for any person, athlete or not. Plenty of players have come back from knee problems (see: Amare Stoudemire) to be productive. I dont think JO will ever play 82 games in a season, but its not impossible for him to play 70ish.

Don't quote me on this, but after Ford was fouled hard by Horford, and came back, didn't he stay relatively healthy for the rest of the season? I believe he did.

Also, Amare came back at a very young age. Same with Bynum and Oden. O'Neal has 10+ years of NBA games on that bad knee already. I'de really be surprised if JO even plays a 60 game season in the rest of his career. Call me a pessimist, but I think JO's body is comparable to Shaq's body, even though Shaq is years older than JO. I hope I am wrong because JO was really great when healthy, but I don't see those days coming back.