SAC - IND No JO No Tinsley

greenway84 · Post #1 » by **greenway84** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:50 pm

brad miller
ron artest

FOR

Dunleavy - qaulity sg/sf
Daniels - role player, exp
Shawne - great pontential
Ike - young prospect
08 2nd

WHY PACERS: We could use the defense, artest seems to be cool now give JO a chance to make one more run with old teammates.

WHY SAC: Go younger, get something back for artest rather than him opting out and moving on.

lineup pacers:
Westbrook/Tinsley/Diener
Granger/Graham
Artest/FA
JO/Murphy
Miller/Foster

lineup sactown:
Udrih/Douby/Johnson
Martin/Salmons/Garcia
Dunleavy/Shawne
Williams/Ike/Thomas/Shareef
Hawes/Moore/Wright

cdash · Post #2 » by **cdash** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:52 pm

There's a better chance of Shaq rejoining the Lakers than Artest coming back to Indiana.

Post #3 » by **mizzoupacers** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:53 pm

Come on now, let's get real here...the Pacers will never, ever trade for Ron Artest, not in a million years.

greenway84 · Post #4 » by **greenway84** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:57 pm

i dont know larry bird said he wants to get tough. he didnt trade him walsh did. artest seems to be ok. hes admitted to wanting back in indiana. as has miller. we would be one of the best d's in the league if not the best. FO needs to swallow its pride in order to better the team imo. but i never wanted him to leave. jackson, tinsley, harrison...YES. Artest...NO

cdash · Post #5 » by **cdash** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:15 pm

It doesnt matter who traded him...the fact remains that the guy still caused a near riot in Detroit, derailing a season in which we looked like a legit title contender (and favorite). The organization stuck by him throughout the whole thing, and then the next season Artest stabs the organization and the fan base in the back by demanding a trade. Him going public with that demand before bringing it to management killed our chances of getting anything but low-ball offers for him. The man is insane. I truly believe that he is severely mentally handicapped.

I just thought that I would rehash that. The franchise has been snakebitten since Artest charged into the stands at the Palace. I dont give a crap who traded him, he isnt coming back here. Toughness or not, who cares? The fan base, who has already stopped coming to games, would completely turn its back on the franchise...and who could blame them?

granger05 · Post #6 » by **granger05** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:26 pm

Aside from the fact that I wouldn't want Artest back in Indy, I can't see Sac agreeing to a deal like this. Why send us back two former players that have helped them at various times for a bunch of guys that haven't done anything. Dunleavy is the best of that bunch and he's never made the playoffs.

Post #7 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:56 pm

I can't see either team agreeing to this. I'd rather have Dunleavy and his contract than Brad Miller and his. I'd also rather have the chance of Diogu, Williams, and a 2nd rounder turning into a productive player that's sane than have one of the best players in the NBA that just can't stay sane.

Post #8 » by **Grang33r** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:14 pm

cdash wrote:There's a better chance of Shaq rejoining the Lakers than Artest coming back to Indiana.

LOL yeah this would totally be the opposite of what they are trying to do by fixing our image. It's like us hiring Dennis Rodman for assistant coach. Artest is a major reason we are in the hole we are in now. Why in the world would anyone want him back is beyond me.

joew8302 · Post #9 » by **joew8302** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:31 pm

I acknowledge there is a 0% chance of this happening.

That said I would LOVE it. I loved Ron Artest, next to Reggie he is my all time favorite Pacer. Yes, he is crazy, but I think a team as soft as Indiana would benefit from having a guy like that on your team. Every great team needs a Dale Davis, Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, Bruce Bowen etc. Ron Artest had a sweet, swell rounded game and you could never question his effort. There are only a few players on the current roster I can say that about.

Post #10 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:43 pm

There's a big difference between a Dale Davis, Charles Oakley, or Bruce Bowen, and a Ron Artest or Dennis Rodman. Dale and Bruce don't technically seem the same as Oak, Ron, and Rodman. Dale and Bruce go about their job, Oakley, Ron, and Rodman talked. A lot.

Plus, all those guys were their best on championship caliber teams. They're wasted on teams that aren't even guaranteed to make the playoffs. We're not a championship caliber team that can utilize those types of players.

Post #11 » by **count55** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:20 pm

It is absolutely true that Artest was the main factor in the Pacers' identity during the 61-win season. It is true that his defensive intensity, as well as his offensive abilities, put us in position to win a title. It is because of these truths that TPTB stuck by Ron despite his antics, some harmless, some corrosive. It is also because of these truths that I generally agreed with that course of action at the time.

However, it is also true that the risk the Pacers took on Ron Artest completely blew up in their faces. The Brawl destroyed one season, while silly trade demands destroyed the next. Everything this franchise and its fans have suffered over the past few years has been either directly caused by Ron Artest or has been magnified because of Ron Artest. The mistakes and missteps we've made have all been in reaction to events surrounding Artest.

I don't hate Ron. I wish I could, but I always felt he was a likable guy. Hell, I even empathized with his anger management issues (to put it kindly). I believe that at times during 2003-2004, he was one of the top 5 players in the league. Some nights, he was arguably the best overall player in the game.

However, I simply cannot think of anything more self-destructive to this franchise than bringing back Ron Artest. The somewhat limited reward is washed away by the risk and backlash associated with it. Can you imagine how Ron will react come January if JO's on the injured list, the team's sub-.500, and half the home crowd is booing him every time he touches the ball? Hell, I don't know if a stable person could deal with that.

I wonder where the Pacers would end up relocating.

joew8302 · Post #12 » by **joew8302** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:19 pm

scoot

I think there are differences with those players, but the one thing they all have in common is that they are enforcers. I personally believe every good team needs a guy like that with a mean streak, and Artest plays that guy to a tee. I absolutely loved how he played and would welcome him back with open arms.

cdash · Post #13 » by **cdash** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:25 pm

If you want Artest back on the Pacers, then I cant call you a Pacers fan.

Post #14 » by **count55** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:58 pm

I'm asking that we not question each other's "fanhood". Everybody want the team to succeed, and each has their own ideas on how to do it.

Feel free to attack/challenge the ideas, but it is really a personal insult to question their dedication, for lack of a better word. It can only lead to hostile interactions.

Thank You

cdash · Post #15 » by **cdash** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:03 pm

Not an insult, just questioning the logic behind wanting a guy back who ruined the franchise. I wasnt trying to insult him. I'm sure he's a great fan.

joew8302 · Post #16 » by **joew8302** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Questioning the logic? Ummm did you just skip over my post after you read I like Artest and throw out a personal jab? I have explained my logic on previous posts, feel free to read the entire thing.

cdash · Post #17 » by **cdash** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:33 am

I read it, and gave you a retort. It wasnt a personal jab, I just cant fathom that any Pacer fan would ever want that cancer back on this team. After all the crap he put this team through, it would be a public relations disaster for a team that honestly cant afford it. We are trying to clean up our image...and to reacquire the guy who is, above all others, most responsible for putting us in this situation? It just doesnt make sense to me. I love Artest as a basketball player, dont get me wrong, and I think if we were in a position to win a title if we added a player like him, then the fans would be more willing to forgive and forget. But this team is nowhere near competing for a title, and with the Bulls sudden leap over us and the Bobcats and Knicks now having real coaches, one can argue that we arent that close to competing for the playoffs. So reacquiring him at this point makes zero sense to me. I wasnt making a personal jab, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I just cant see any logic in bringing Artest back.

joew8302 · Post #18 » by **joew8302** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:47 am

Cancer? In my opinion he is no more of a cancer than O'Neal and Tinsley and they are still here.

cdash · Post #19 » by **cdash** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:03 pm

...what? JO? A cancer? Just because the guy is injured a lot does NOT make him a cancer. His teammates love him, he is active in the community, and opposing players respect him. Tinsley, is a cancer, I agree, and we are working on ridding ourselves of him.

joew8302 · Post #20 » by **joew8302** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:23 am

Eh, JO signed a huge deal and hasn't been happy since. It seems there is tension between him and Bird ever since Thomas was ousted in Indiana.

Also, it is my opinion that JO is a VERY poor leader. He is a much better indian than he is a chief. It is obvious to me that Artest among others was much more responsible for the 61 wins than JO. JO used to be attacking, now he is very, very soft and settles way too much for jumpers. Just my opinion, but I think it would be best for both parties if we parted ways with JO.