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Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:36 pm**

Indy Star wrote:Pacers, Toronto talk about trading O'Neal
By Mike Wells
Posted: June 23, 2008

The Indiana Pacers and Jermaine O'Neal could be parting ways in the near future.

The Pacers and Toronto Raptors have discussed a possible deal with O'Neal going north of the border with point guard T.J. Ford and center Rasho Nesterovic coming to Indiana, according to two people with knowledge of the situation. The deal may also include Toronto's first-round pick (No. 17) in Thursday's draft.

The Raptors will have to throw in at least one other player to make the deal work financially.

An issue that could hold up the deal is O'Neal's left knee. O'Neal, who has dealt with injuries the past four seasons, played just 42 games last season. Pacers officials, however, recently said O'Neal's knee is healthy. The six-time All-Star is spending the summer working out in Las Vegas.

Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:44 pm**

So, theoretically, it's:

TJ Ford (3yrs 24.8mm)
Rasho Nesterovic (1 yr, 8.4mm)
#17 (Hopefully)

for

JO (2yrs, 44.4mm)

The Raps would have to add about $0.5mm in salaries to make the deal work, and the only guy they have like that is Jamario Moon, but I'm unsure as to how they'd feel about him as a throw in. They could also throw in the $1.9mm contract of Maceo Baston.

Another option is to agree to the deal, but consummate it after the draft. That way, the contract of the #17 pick (probably about $1.5mm, first year) could be used to match the salaries.

I know Ford is a risk, but I like this deal if the #17 is included. It gives us relatively young point guard (albeit with injury issues), but he has played over 70 games in the two years prior to this.

Nesterovic is a nice size expiring, plus a serviceable big man that can play a little defense.

A second 1st round draft pick in the area where there are a lot of players that we like.

It also could get us under the luxury tax next year and clear about $12-13 million in salaries for the 2009-2010 season.

I like this deal...a lot...if the 1st rounder is there.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:58 pm**

I would do it in a heart beat.

I think T.J. Ford has shown he can be a fantastic point guard when healthy. He put up 12 points and 6 assists in just 23 minutes a game this past season, which is fantastic production (20.6 ppg, 10.4 apg per-40 minutes).

Throw in #17 and expiring contracts, and I think it'd be a huge coup for us. We could then package #11 & #17 to move up if we wanted to, maybe to take someone like Love or Lopez.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:07 pm**

I think the raps would rather give up Baston than to have to include the 17th pick.
Jamario would not be part of any deal. Personally I would rather us trade for Foster than JO.
How healthy is JO, really?.. his knees to me from an outsider perspective seem like they will get re injured every season and is almost a shoe in to miss 30+ games/ season.

The one thing that most raps fans would want JO for is his massive expiring in the 09/10 season.
Personally I dont like JO as a player. Although his rebounding D and blocking ability are all things that we need. If in fact he is helathy and can become the 2003/04 JO again I would be 100% fine with this trade. I just cant see that happening.

In the end do you consider TJ Rasho and Maceo a fair offer for JO?...

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:07 pm**

Bucky O'Hare wrote:I would do it in a heart beat.

I think T.J. Ford has shown he can be a fantastic point guard when healthy. He put up 12 points and 6 assists in just 23 minutes a game this past season, which is fantastic production (20.6 ppg, 10.4 apg per-40 minutes).

Throw in #17 and expiring contracts, and I think it'd be a huge coup for us. We could then package #11 & #17 to move up if we wanted to, maybe to take someone like Love or Lopez.

A friend of mine just mentioned doing something like this, though he mentioned Westbrook as the possible target...

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:39 pm**

Would you guys accept:
Daniels+JO
for
AP(expiring)+Rasho(expiring)+TJ+Baston

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:44 pm**

bryant08 wrote:Would you guys accept:
Daniels+JO
for
AP(expiring)+Rasho(expiring)+TJ+Baston

That's awfully close, but I really believe the #17 pick is an important asset, and I'd probably hold out for it's inclusion.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:48 pm**

bryant08 wrote:Would you guys accept:
Daniels+JO
for
AP(expiring)+Rasho(expiring)+TJ+Baston

The 17th pick is of great interest to us, so I dont think that deal would suffice. Ford, Rasho, the 17th pick + whatever filler and I think that's pretty good value for both teams. JO shores up Toronto's weak front line, and honestly, you cant really bark about his health issues because Ford's health is just as big of a concern. A lineup of that has Bosh, JO, and Calderon in it can compete in the East. The Pacers get a proven point guard, cap relief, and a decent enough first round pick. Cant ask for much more.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:00 pm**

I've proposed this deal of this nature a few times now and I would love for it to happen. The real sticking point for me was when it was when Indy was dissatisfied because of Tinsley's penchant for injuries. So if they were worried about him, TJ doesn't really fall into that sure thing category.

I really don't want to lose 17, but if it must go, I want your second rounder.

TJ, Rasho, Baston, #17

O'Neal, 41

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:04 pm**

No way would I give the Raptors the best frontcourt in the league. J.O. & Bosh! C'mon now

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:07 pm**

Shaazzam wrote:I've proposed this deal of this nature a few times now and I would love for it to happen. The real sticking point for me was when it was when Indy was dissatisfied because of Tinsley's penchant for injuries. So if they were worried about him, TJ doesn't really fall into that sure thing category.

I really don't want to lose 17, but if it must go, I want your second rounder.

TJ, Rasho, Baston, #17

O'Neal, 41

Yeah, I'd do that.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:16 pm**

I would take that deal. No doubt about it. Gives you a proven starting pg and allows you to take a big with the 11th and maybe a Courtney Lee (

) with the 17th pick. Or maybe package the 11th and 17th to move into the top 5. If Bird pulls this off he just sold a season ticket package.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:18 pm**

I'd do it. The 17th pick must be included though. TJ Ford is an awesome point guard and an awesome floor general. He went to Toronto when they were bad and he started that uprising there with some fun play. I think Ford's better days are ahead of him still as long as he can stay healthy, it's a risk, but Toronto taking on O'Neal is a risk too.

I don't think Bird would trade both picks and move up. I think he knows who he will draft with the 11th pick and in case a miracle happens and Gordon drops to 11, we'll take him. But i think he has an idea of who he wants in this draft at 11. And he mentioned several times that he desperatly wants a 2nd pick. I think he has a second target already eyed out.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:18 pm**

Well, it's much better than the Ford and the 17th pick for Diaw that was rumored to be talked about a few days ago. As a Raptors fan I knew that the Raptors were either going to have to accept a lesser player or a player with risk. I figured maybe Ford for Artest, where the injury concerns match the crazy concerns. I do think that JO would help alot because he can actually play defense and rebound the ball. It all depends on his knee. Could you guys give me some info as to what injury he sustained there.

As for the idea of trading your pick and the 17th to move up, unless you're moving in the top 3, is there any point? It just seems like a draft that's short on elite talent, but deep. There's every chance that the 17th pick is as good as the 7th pick.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:27 pm**

dirtybird wrote:Well, it's much better than the Ford and the 17th pick for Diaw that was rumored to be talked about a few days ago. As a Raptors fan I knew that the Raptors were either going to have to accept a lesser player or a player with risk. I figured maybe Ford for Artest, where the injury concerns match the crazy concerns. I do think that JO would help alot because he can actually play defense and rebound the ball. It all depends on his knee. Could you guys give me some info as to what injury he sustained there.

Here's JO's injury history back to 2004:

MOVEMENTS & INJURIES
31-Mar-08 Missed 33 games (bruised left knee).
19-Jan-08 Bruised left knee, day-to-day.
12-Jan-08 Missed 1 game (sore left knee).
09-Jan-08 Sore left knee, day-to-day.
30-Nov-07 Missed 5 games (knee injury).
21-Nov-07 Knee injury, day-to-day.
02-Nov-07 Missed 1 game (knee surgery).
31-Oct-07 Knee surgery, day-to-day.
18-Apr-07 Missed the last 2 games of the regular season (sore left knee).
17-Apr-07 Sore left knee, inactive list.
03-Apr-07 Missed 1 game (sore left knee).
01-Apr-07 Sore left knee, day-to-day.
30-Mar-07 Missed 1 game (left ankle injury).
28-Mar-07 Left ankle injury, inactive list.
14-Mar-07 Missed 3 games (sore left knee).
10-Mar-07 Sore left knee, day-to-day.
09-Feb-07 Missed 1 game (left knee injury).
07-Feb-07 Left knee injury, inactive list.
29-Dec-06 Missed 1 game (flu).
26-Dec-06 Flu, day-to-day.
13-Dec-06 Missed 3 games (hamstring).
08-Dec-06 Hamstring, day-to-day.
10-Nov-06 Missed 1 game (sprained left ankle).
08-Nov-06 Sprained left ankle, day-to-day.
27-Apr-06 Fined $15,000 by the NBA for publicly criticizing officials.
01-Apr-06 Missed 1 game (groin).
30-Mar-06 Groin, day-to-day.
22-Mar-06 Missed 24 games (groin).
27-Jan-06 Groin, day-to-day.
21-Jan-06 Missed 3 games (sprained left ankle).
16-Jan-06 Sprained left ankle, day-to-day.
08-Jan-06 Missed 3 games (pneumonia).
02-Jan-06 Pneumonia, day-to-day.
29-Apr-05 Fined $10,000 by the NBA for his actions in Game 3 of Round One against the Boston Celtics.
17-Apr-05 Missed 22 games (sprained right shoulder).
04-Mar-05 Sprained right shoulder, injured list.
24-Dec-04 Missed 15 games (suspension).
21-Nov-04 Suspended by the NBA for 25 games for his actions on Nov 19 against the Detroit Pistons.
05-Nov-04 Missed 1 game (foot injury).
01-Nov-04 Foot injury, injured list.

There's been debate as to whether he is just injury prone or whether he has (somewhat foolishly) rushed back from injuries too soon. According to Chad Ford, he looks good in Las Vegas:

Chad Ford wrote:Darren (Wilburton, OK): Jermaine O'Neal getting moved? Where?

Chad Ford: I think it's likely. I don't know where. If he gets healthy this summer (and the word out of Las Vegas where he's working out is that he's totally healthy and getting into great shape) the Pacers should be able to get something good in return.

Take that for what it's worth. I think he needs to lose some weight (not fat, just too heavy) to take pressure off of his knee. He should probably target 230-240 for a playing weight, and it would do wonders for him....just like droping to 250-260 did for Smits.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:31 pm**

Possibly toronto includes Parker with ford and rasho (no 17th pick). Indiana then buys out parker for nothing. This would save pacers 4.5$ plus 4.5 luxary tax. So indiana saves 9 mil by not taking the 17th. Parker agrees to the buyout because he has a contract offer from the euro league.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:37 pm**

Bird really wants a 2nd first round pick. He has 2 guys in mind to select. I truly believe that.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:44 pm**

The inclusion of the 17th may not be that big of a deal because it seems that Colangelo is interested in J.J Hickson who we could get with a late first or early second. If JO could get his knee healthy again this could be a really good pick-up on our part. A Bosh JO frontcourt with Bargs off the bench would contend with any other frontcourt in the league. It also helps you guys out by giving you a fully insured, and excellent point guard. Interesting to see how this turns out...

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:45 pm**

western221 wrote:Possibly toronto includes Parker with ford and rasho (no 17th pick). Indiana then buys out parker for nothing. This would save pacers 4.5$ plus 4.5 luxary tax. So indiana saves 9 mil by not taking the 17th. Parker agrees to the buyout because he has a contract offer from the euro league.

No, they don't. Parker's salary, along with our #11 would put us right at $71 mil, which should be right at the luxury tax threshhold, if not a little under (assuming the average 5% growth of the cap this year). However, the difference would be that in that case, we'd have 14 players under contract instead of the 12 we're heading towards now.

If Parker took the buyout for nothing (which I'm not even sure is possible), then, at most, it would save us $4.55 mm, not $9.0 million.

If the Pacers got the #17 and Baston as filler, then we'd be at about $70 million in salary with 15 players under contract.

In addition to your math not being right, I don't think the scenario is incentive enough to make me not insist on the #17.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:49 pm**

count55 wrote:
western221 wrote:Possibly toronto includes Parker with ford and rasho (no 17th pick). Indiana then buys out parker for nothing. This would save pacers 4.5$ plus 4.5 luxary tax. So indiana saves 9 mil by not taking the 17th. Parker agrees to the buyout because he has a contract offer from the euro league.

No, they don't. Parker's salary, along with our #11 would put us right at $71 mil, which should be right at the luxury tax threshhold, if not a little under (assuming the average 5% growth of the cap this year). However, the difference would be that in that case, we'd have 14 players under contract instead of the 12 we're heading towards now.

If Parker took the buyout for nothing (which I'm not even sure is possible), then, at most, it would save us $4.55 mm, not $9.0 million.

If the Pacers got the #17 and Baston as filler, then we'd be at about $70 million in salary with 15 players under contract.

In addition to your math not being right, I don't think the scenario is incentive enough to make me not insist on the #17.

Ok, i thought that the luxary tax would kick in at 65 mil.

RealGM

Toronto & Portland Trades are Official (pg 23)

Toronto & Portland Trades are Official (pg 23)

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